"Grow Old With Me" as a song for a Catholic wedding?

[CarrieH]

I didn’t realize what I did, but the organist with me started laughing and told me afterwards what happened. I was so embarrassed, yet I had to laugh at myself. I still had to sing the recessional hymn and trying soooo hard not to laugh.

Well, I have my share cantor-bloopers as well, and sometimes when you try to cover it up, it just makes things worse, esp. if people know the song you just bungled. Fortunately I haven’t done anything awful on a paid gig, but I sometimes used to serve as cantor after working all night at the hospital (that’s how I put food on the table) and I did have a few sleep-deprived moments of shame. But if anyone says anything, I just remind them that if I were perfect, I wouldn’t need Jesus. That shuts 'em up every time!

I couldn’t be caught dead in some of those styles. I’m always thankful I was a little girl in the 80s and didn’t have to spend my teen years then.

What, you didn’t want over-permed hair and shoulder pads? I have 20 years on you, so I was married in the lovely styles of that day, LOL. Wanna see some? Check out www.uglydress.com. Now there’s another reason to be a musician: you can sing/play for your friends’ weddings and not have to shell out all of that money for b-maids’ dresses.

 

[Guitar]

Oh… yeah. There have been plenty of pieces that I sung which were truly just bits of garbage. But I would never say it to the person who chose the music, especially if I’m being paid to perform it. Now, I have been guilty of commiserating with my fellow colleagues who also had to perform the same piece with me and also couldn’t stand it. BUT we always play it to the best that we can bring out of it. We don’t sabotage the music, as I know some colleagues have done, which I don’t think is right either.

We really must get together for that drink sometime … though if yours is a listerine I might rethink it.

Yes! When our group used to travel in the one car, it would be all smiles and poker-faced serenity till we got in the car … then the car doors went “click” … count to three … “&^%$#$&^%^&(&!!!” from everyone all at once. But like you, we would never use such language to the people making the request. Usually when something is complete garbage there are several grounds on which it is inappropriate anyway quite aside from quality, all of which can be explained without disparaging the customer’s personal taste in music.

If you’re in the business you will sometimes get caught and doing the best you can might be the only professional thing to do. I don’t have your professional voice but often through my arrangements I have made pigs ears resemble silk purses a little more closely. Saboteurs deserve the reputation they’ll get - the music might not be suitable for worship but it is often chosen in ignorance - the musician who doesn’t say no but deliberately makes bad worse in God’s presence has no such excuse.

I understand about the web site feedback too - no one but a fellow musician will read negative stuff from a bride and think “there goes Bridezilla”, it will be “let’s make sure we don’t book that prima donna”. I get frustrated trying to be a musician around the day job but I am thankful for one thing - I remember the very first “gig” I didn’t need the money … when Bridezilla gave me a hassle I was financially free to give her a bunch of other musicians’ phone numbers in return.

 

[Sarabande]

…But if anyone says anything, I just remind them that if I were perfect, I wouldn’t need Jesus. That shuts 'em up every time!

Excellent rebuttal!!! I shall have to remember that some time. I’ve had a couple of those sleep deprived Sunday mornings myself. We beat ourselves up enough - we don’t need others to do it for us - right?

What, you didn’t want over-permed hair and shoulder pads? I have 20 years on you, so I was married in the lovely styles of that day, LOL. Wanna see some? Check out www.uglydress.com.

Oh my!!! I remember! I remember! Oh, the horror! LOL The skirt on the peach merengue dress reminds me of a denim balloon skirt my super-cool, 20-something aunt (mother of my 18 year old cousin in previous post) at the time bought for me when I was about 8. I thought I was so “cool”. hahaha! In 1988, my well-meaning mother took me to the hairdresser to turn the two of us into poodles. Since I have naturally wavy hair, I definitely ended up being a poodle and it ruined my hair for about two years. My fortunate mother, who always had gorgeous poker straight hair, could never get her hair curled.

Now there’s another reason to be a musician: you can sing/play for your friends’ weddings and not have to shell out all of that money for b-maids’ dresses.

Oh, yes!!!

 

[Sarabande]

We really must get together for that drink sometime … though if yours is a listerine I might rethink it.

Perhaps a Belhaven or Newcastle? I’m a fruity chick drink girl myself once in a blue moon. I like a Belgium framboise on occasion.

Yes! When our group used to travel in the one car, it would be all smiles and poker-faced serenity till we got in the car … then the car doors went “click” … count to three … “&^%$#$&^%^&(&!!!” from everyone all at once. But like you, we would never use such language to the people making the request. Usually when something is complete garbage there are several grounds on which it is inappropriate anyway quite aside from quality, all of which can be explained without disparaging the customer’s personal taste in music.

This sounds exactly like me and my friends/colleagues. hahahaha!!! Kindness is the best policy… and it gets you the most recommendations.

…Saboteurs deserve the reputation they’ll get - the music might not be suitable for worship but it is often chosen in ignorance - the musician who doesn’t say no but deliberately makes bad worse in God’s presence has no such excuse.

I agree. Alot of bridal couples today are of my generation, and based on my own liturgical music education or lack there-of whilst a youngster, I truly believe their ideas and choices are made on innocent ignorance and misguidance. There is certainly no reason to be mean and condescending. I’ve actually ceased subcontracting certain colleagues (who are consummate musicians) because of either a bad attitude or not caring enough about the music to play it well. Even though I’m not that musician, it looks bad on me since I recommended the said musician. I always give the benefit of the doubt, but after a few times and trying to reason with them, it’s bye-bye to them.

 

[puzzleannie]

just talked with my sister, who does sing at weddings (and also with the Chicago Lyric Opera on occasion, and with one of the best paid professional Protestant church choirs in Chicagoland, so she is good, mezzo), and she got a great chuckle, and had a lot of music director/choir director/cantor jokes, none of which is appropriate for a Christian forum unfortunately.

she says she has different lists she gives out, depending on the bride and groom’s situation, I think this covers her categories
basic mainstream Protestant (classical stuff like Sheep May Safely Graze, traditional hymns, Shubert Ave Maria)
basic trad Catholic (above plus Gounod or Faure Ave Maria, Ave Verum Corpus and other Latin)
basic rad Catholic (Gather hymnal, Hail Mary Gentle Woman)
new Age (don’t even want to go there)
Unitarian (like sound track for Little Women, transcentalist, shaker, quaker, New England type stuff)
Latino (Bob Hurd, bilingual, Madre Mia, salsa Catholic)

she also has a few ethnic folk hymns, Polish, Slavic etc.
she says she does not get invited to African American weddings, but she could do them if she was asked

even she has her standards, and refuses to do any Beatles/John Lennon, “the Wedding Song” or “Sunrise Sunset” in any church, but will, given enough alcohol, do them at the reception.

 

[THurifer2]

I would be tempeted to sing them but very badly…I mean breaking glass badly.

In reality you need to work you contracts out to be more specific.

 

[Sarabande]

just talked with my sister, who does sing at weddings (and also with the Chicago Lyric Opera on occasion, and with one of the best paid professional Protestant church choirs in Chicagoland, so she is good, mezzo), and she got a great chuckle, and had a lot of music director/choir director/cantor jokes, none of which is appropriate for a Christian forum unfortunately.

Very cool about your sister!!! I’d love to hear some of her jokes some time.

she says she has different lists she gives out, depending on the bride and groom’s situation

I keep separate lists of repertoire as well - even have a separate list with the Broadway show tunes (ie. One Hand, One Heart, You Never Walk Alone, etc.) but it sometimes doesn’t work, unfortunately. You still get the requests like “Grow Old With Me” and the occassional, “I really love the ‘Pie Jesu’ (pronounced pi gezoo) by Andrew Lloyd Weber. Can I have that sung during the candlelighting?”

even she has her standards, and refuses to do any Beatles/John Lennon, “the Wedding Song” or “Sunrise Sunset” in any church, but will, given enough alcohol, do them at the reception.

Haha! Sometimes I feel like that myself. This will be a learning moment for me to place in my contracts what kind of music I do not sing. ie - NO pop music!!! Thank you.

 

[Guitar]

Haha! Sometimes I feel like that myself. This will be a learning moment for me to place in my contracts what kind of music I do not sing. ie - NO pop music!!! Thank you.

Ooooh, contracts! I don’t actually use contracts but boy have I edited my information handout over the years as a result of many burnt fingers. Good topic for another thread!

 

[Sarabande]

Ooooh, contracts! I don’t actually use contracts but boy have I edited my information handout over the years as a result of many burnt fingers. Good topic for another thread!

I used to not use contracts either until I started getting more and more gigs and also got burned too many times. I’ve only been using them a little over a year, so it has been a learning experience. (I’m too trusting.) They certainly have helped for both parties involved. But yes, for another thread.

 

[bluerose]

Reminds me of a very vivid memory of attending a cousin’s wedding back in the '70s (talk about the horror! I remember seeing those organza bridesmaids dresses and the garden hats and thinking, I hope nobody ever asks me to be a bridesmaid!)

The groom’s sister sang “There is Love” and “Turn, Turn, Turn” for the communion song and the offertory. I thought my dad would choke. Then, almost thirty years later, my sister hires mariachis to play for my parents’ 50 th anniversary Mass.

Thank God Dad was starting to go deaf…

 

[kage_ar]

I’d lose the fee and take a chance at bad reviews on a web site before I would sing such inappropriate songs during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Right now as you begin your carreer is the time to determine the guidelines for your future based on your values and your faith, then - have the integrity to stand on them.

Prayers you will have strength to bow out of this.

 

[Sarabande]

I’d lose the fee and take a chance at bad reviews on a web site before I would sing such inappropriate songs during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Right now as you begin your carreer is the time to determine the guidelines for your future based on your values and your faith, then - have the integrity to stand on them.

Prayers you will have strength to bow out of this.

Thank you for your prayers. I’ve actually “bowed out” of a few companies or didn’t take certain gigs since I’ve begun my career because of certain moral and values issues, but thank you for your encouragement.

It’s actually more about the contract that I’m bound to. The potential bad reviews are secondary. This contract thing has been a learning experience for me and I know better next time as to what to stipulate especially for Catholic weddings. As I’ve learned, I could say that certain songs are not permitted and even explain why, but if the director or the pastor gives the green light there really isn’t anything my words can do.

So that I don’t screw the bridal couple totally, I actually emailed both the bridal couple and music director asking that I not sing “Grow Old With Me” since it actually sits way too low for my voice anyway. I will still sing an “Ave Maria” for the Blessed Mother and other religious songs, but not a secular song like the John Lennon one. Since the music director/pianist seems to want to sing (she won’t have me sing the parts of the mass, for instance, which I would rather trade off and do) I asked if she wouldn’t mind the director singing that song and I suspect one other song choice once I look at the sheet music and the lyrics to it. So, we’ll see how that goes. I think it may work since the director wants to sing as well.

Thanks to everyone for their advice and encouragement.

 

[Sarabande]

Well, things have worked out without any hair-pulling and me not leaving the bridal couple in a lurch (wedding less than two months away). I’m not singing the music that I have a problem with (stylistically and/or liturgically) for this wedding mass - most importantly not singing the John Lennon song. I asked very nicely if the bride would not mind me singing those songs for various reasons. She was totally fine with that. I thought maybe she’d choose another piece that would be more fitting from my repertoire, but she preferred the director to sing those pieces. So, at least it is out of my concience for the Lennon.

But what do you guys think about saying something to the priest or pastor afterwards? Do you think it would make a difference? I have a feeling that if the director is allowing it, then the pastor is permitting it as well. I know in my parish, any one of the priests would say something immediately if they were not happy with a music choice. I’m not a controversial person, but if I approached him with gentleness regarding the choice, would that make a difference for future weddings there? A part of me says no, having regularly worked and/or volunteered as a musician for various parishes since I was 16 and seeing the workings from the inside out over the years. hmmmm…

 

[benedictgal]

Well, things have worked out without any hair-pulling and me not leaving the bridal couple in a lurch (wedding less than two months away). I’m not singing the music that I have a problem with (stylistically and/or liturgically) for this wedding mass - most importantly not singing the John Lennon song. I asked very nicely if the bride would not mind me singing those songs for various reasons. She was totally fine with that. I thought maybe she’d choose another piece that would be more fitting from my repertoire, but she preferred the director to sing those pieces. So, at least it is out of my concience for the Lennon.

But what do you guys think about saying something to the priest or pastor afterwards? Do you think it would make a difference? I have a feeling that if the director is allowing it, then the pastor is permitting it as well. I know in my parish, any one of the priests would say something immediately if they were not happy with a music choice. I’m not a controversial person, but if I approached him with gentleness regarding the choice, would that make a difference for future weddings there? A part of me says no, having regularly worked and/or volunteered as a musician for various parishes since I was 16 and seeing the workings from the inside out over the years. hmmmm…

Well, thank God for that. Now, as far as visiting with the priest/pastor, that might be a good thing, provided you take a copy of the document I sent you. Having supporting documentation and making a polite and reasonable argument might prove most helpful.

I am happy for you.

 

[Phemie]

But what do you guys think about saying something to the priest or pastor afterwards? Do you think it would make a difference? I have a feeling that if the director is allowing it, then the pastor is permitting it as well.

I think you’ve probably got that figured out right. I know I’ve been banging my head against the wall at my own parish where anything goes for weddings and funerals. After the last funeral the pastor came back from the cemetery laughing because the recessional had been a Dolly Parton number on CD. He’d said they could do what they wanted. He says the same thing about weddings so we’ve been known to have a CD of a Shania Twain number for the wedding processional. I’m just waiting for someone to pick “Whose Bed Have Your Boots Been Under?” to see if there is ANYTHING he finds unacceptable and is willing to say NO to.

 

[Sarabande]

I think you’ve probably got that figured out right. I know I’ve been banging my head against the wall at my own parish where anything goes for weddings and funerals. After the last funeral the pastor came back from the cemetery laughing because the recessional had been a Dolly Parton number on CD. He’d said they could do what they wanted. He says the same thing about weddings so we’ve been known to have a CD of a Shania Twain number for the wedding processional. I’m just waiting for someone to pick “Whose Bed Have Your Boots Been Under?” to see if there is ANYTHING he finds unacceptable and is willing to say NO to.

All I can say is, “Wow!” I feel for you.

 

[stbruno]

As someone who does marriage prep…we tell them only approved liturgical music must be played at the wedding. Otherwise their first dance has to be Holy God We Praise Thy Name.

They get the message pretty quick.

 

[Sarabande]

As someone who does marriage prep…we tell them only approved liturgical music must be played at the wedding. Otherwise their first dance has to be Holy God We Praise Thy Name.

They get the message pretty quick.

I like that!!!

My parish is very specific regarding music as well, and I don’t have to worry about dealing with the brides/grooms or the mothers of the brides there, which is a huge relief for me. It’s just when I contract myself out to bridal couples getting married in other Catholic churches or places of other denominations/venues is when I’ll have to really figure out the proper wording in the contract so that I can avoid something like this again - especially with Catholic weddings.