Guardian angel confirmation saint?

[pianistclare]

What’s the point of confirmation names, then?
I don’t much like the idea of legal names.

The POINT, as we have said so many times before is to have a role model. It’s not about the NAME. It’s about the inspiration and patronage of a holy person.
It appears that you want to argue because I, a catechist ,disagree with you.
I’m out.

 

[thistle]

What’s the point of confirmation names, then?
I don’t much like the idea of legal names.

pianistclare has explained perfectly clearly the point of a confirmation name. What is it you still fail to understand?

 

[asia53]

What’s the point of confirmation names, then?
I don’t much like the idea of legal names.

Wow, this comment really illustrates that you are 13 years old.

It isn’t about what we like, what we think should be done. What does the Church teach? That is it.

 

[Yago]

**Whether Angels can be considered Saints
**
**Objection 1.***It would seem that angels cannot be numbered among the Saints because during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the one presiding says:…and furthermore, at benediction the one presiding says (and the people respond):So these would seem to be two separate groups of people

**Objection 2.***Further, the Holy Church has shown throughout Salvation History that she only canonizes those who have died in the Grace of God. Angels have no capacity for death and therefore cannot be canonized as such.

Objection 3.Further, Holy Mother Church makes a distinction between those whom she knows, through:
objective means (posthumous miracles)
through her own power of binding and loosing (as is the case withSt. Pope John XXIII)
by right of dying specifically for Christ (martyrdom). In this case one does not have the ability to recant the grace freely given. This makes their death the sacrifice “beyond which there is*no greater love”.

On the Contrary*the Catholic Church, which apparently is the arbiter of who is numbered among the Saints, has consistently referred to the angels as Saints.Mor Gabriel Monestaryis one of the oldest surviving Churches in the world, dedicated to St. Gabriel.

**I answer that,the term saint is a qualifier used tomean holybut a canonized Saint is an office, as is Angel. Angel is a job title meaningmessenger of God. Just as a person can be both a carpenter and a father, one can be an Angel and a Saint.

Reply to Objection 1*the words used in the sacred liturgies, whereas they are unsurpassed in beauty and reverence, are not, in and of themselves, theological treatises. Therefore, if you hear Jesus referred to as thrice Holy, that isn’t to say He isn’t also holy four times over as well.

Reply to Objection 2It is true that the relatively recently establishednorms of canonization*are more or less ignored when it comes to Biblical figures, when it comes to those who do not need the grace of Christ’s redemption to save them from death, St. Thomas Aquinqs says and so he lumps us all together in Heaven where Christ is the Head and we all (the Church) are His Body. And so, a thing that separates us from the Angels (the ability to die) does not separate us from becoming Saints any more than it separates Angels from being Saints.

**Reply to Objection 3.**Lastly, the Church, through Holy Scripture knows which of the Angels clung to the true light (The Trinity) or the false light (Lucifer) because those who clung to the truth are the heroes of the Bible. St. Raphael aids Tobias on his journey and saves him, his future wife’s honor and his father. St. Michael wrested from Lucifer the body of Moses and preserved the holy man from scorn. St. Gabriel, best of all, announced the birth of Christ to Mary. But, to even accomplish this task, they must have gotten their orders from God Himself and therefore “merited beatitude” asthe Angel I c Doctor says:…

Thank you Jamma, that was really enlightening.

 

[Elizium23]

You did not give a reference for the article you put into post #27. Your position is not any stronger until you reference the question and article number.

Perhaps you’ve heard of some guy named St. Thomas Aquinas and his work, the Summa Theologiae. Thomas is still known as The Angelic Doctor for his expert work on angelology.

 

[Yago]

Where is the Church document that states angels are saints?? So far I haven’t seen any!
Without it this remains opinion and speculation only. Nothing wrong with that unless an opinion offered is being stated as fact.

post 27 is a scholarly theological opinion. Can you provide a church documennt that says that angels are not saonts

 

[thistle]

post 27 is a scholarly theological opinion. Can you provide a church documennt that says that angels are not saonts

I don’t have to prove a negative. If the Church teaches that angels are saints then you must be able to produce the document.
I have shown you in the Confiteor and Benediction that the Church uses the expression “all the Angels and Saints”. If angels are saints then such wording would be redundant.

 

[Elizium23]

And yet the Holy Angels bear the title “Saint” because the word means “holy”. They are members of the Communion of Saints even though it is not called the Communion of Angels and Saints.

Perhaps when the liturgy mentions “angels and saints” it is for special emphasis. The liturgy uses many words which are seemingly redundant or unnecessary, and yet their use adds to layers of meaning and texture of the language of prayer.

It never ceases to amuse me that someone will argue against Thomas Aquinas without citing a source, without quoting a document, without a whiff of evidence, just because a forum-goer says so, St. Thomas the Angelic Doctor must be wrong.

 

[Ignatius]

Can my guardian angel be my confirmation saint?
I feel like I should devote my confirmation saint to my guardian angel, since he dedicated himself to guard me, when he really didn’t have to.
Do confirmation saints have to be archangels and human saints, or can it be my guardian angel?
I’m thinking of my confirmation name in due time to be something like ‘Angelus Aeternam’.
Can I do this?

So you are saying your confirmation would be like Angelo? If so, I thing this would be ok.

 

[Yago]

I don’t have to prove a negative. If the Church teaches that angels are saints then you must be able to produce the document.
I have shown you in the Confiteor and Benediction that the Church uses the expression “all the Angels and Saints”. If angels are saints then such wording would be redundant.

Post 27 is my reason, as well as where that.argument is refuted

 

[thistle]

Post 27 is my reason, as well as where that.argument is refuted

Wrong. You have not demonstrated at all that the Church teaches that angels are saints.
Which Church document states that? You have not yet shown a Church document on this.

 

[Ignatius]

Wrong. You have not demonstrated at all that the Church teaches that angels are saints.
Which Church document states that? You have not yet shown a Church document on this.

Saint Michael the Archangel is referenced in the prayers after Mass.

 

[Elizium23]

Wrong. You have not demonstrated at all that the Church teaches that angels are saints.
Which Church document states that? You have not yet shown a Church document on this.

The Martyrologium Romanum, an official Church document which describes the General Roman Calendar.

8 Maji Octavo Idus Maji. Luna …
vij. C

In monte Gargano Apparitio sancti Michaelis Archangeli, quem Pius Papa Duodecimus Radiologis et Radiumtherapeuticis Patronum et Protectorem constituit.

Emphasis is mine. Michael, the Archangel, is known by the title “Sancti” which means “Holy” or “Saint”.

The Martyrologium Romanum was promulgated by Pope Gregory XIII, confirmed by Popes Urban VIII and Clement X, and revised by Pope Benedict XIV in 1749. Additions have been made by subsequent Pontiffs.

This electronic version of the Martyrologium Romanum has been transcribed for the internet by David Forster (of Abingdon, England) for the use of Roman Catholic traditionalists and liturgical scholars.

The MR is still published today in updated editions, which are under copyright. You are more than welcome to purchase a copy, or borrow from a library, and check for yourself that the Archangels are still known as “Sancti”.

 

[Yago]

Wrong.

“All angels and saints” is one of the objections which have been refuted in post 27, if you have actually read it.

What makes you think St.Joseph is a Saint?

Can you define a Saint? From a Church document?

 

[Yago]

The Martyrologium Romanum, an official Church document which describes the General Roman Calendar.

Emphasis is mine. Michael, the Archangel, is known by the title “Sancti” which means “Holy” or “Saint”.

The MR is still published today in updated editions, which are under copyright. You are more than welcome to purchase a copy, or borrow from a library, and check for yourself that the Archangels are still known as “Sancti”.

 

[Miserissima]

Confirmation names must be taken after a canonized saint or blessed.

Not quite true.

A saint who may not be “in the canon” (but pre-congregation) is also a valid option. There are many gospel options; ask anyone from the 50s who took the name “Fabian!”

Per Fr. Serpa,

Whoever is in heaven is a saint. Saints are in heaven; so angels are saints.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=913833

I’m going to take liberty here with his answer to qualify that while our **Guardian **Angels may walk in Heaven while not (or concurrently) at our sides on Earth, they are a. not residing exclusively in Heaven and b. we cannot seek to know our Guardian Angel’s particular name. So that option is off the table.

However, if we can use a name given to a saint after a choir of angels (i.e. ‘Seraphim,’), we also have other confirmation names based on choirs of angels that have not been given to saints (‘Cherubim,’ ‘Archangel,’ ‘Angel,’ etc). This is a bit unlike using the name ‘Micha-El,’ ‘Gabri-El,’ or ‘Rapha-El,’ because these [Arch]angels are individuals, not whose names in Scripture are particulary referring to concepts and attributes of God, while the choirs of angels are named after each of their function.

It is not ‘okay’ to take one’s Guardian Angel’s name as a Confirmation name. It is, however, not uncommon to hear names after choirs of angels and even names after concepts of ‘Grace,’ ‘Immaculata,’ and even apparitions such as ‘Fatima’ and ‘Guadalupe’ (rather than the saints who witnessed such apparitions). * Note, too, that a male with an affection for the visions of Lourdes may take the masculine name "Bernard’ after St. Bernadette rather than the name ‘Lourdes’ which has a distinctly feminine connotation in our culture. Conversely, it is not uncommon to know of saints of different eras whose middle name is “Mary.”

Digressing, the OP’s choice of using a name which is a variant of “Angel” is laudable, but it cannot be with the intent of being named after one’s Guardian Angel.

Since we are allowed to use the titles of angelic choirs for names, more HBO fans would undoubtedly choose the name ‘Thrones!’

 

[Miserissima]

Wrong. You have not demonstrated at all that the Church teaches that angels are saints.
Which Church document states that? You have not yet shown a Church document on this.

I’m going to interject here. Please cite a definitive source whereby angels cannot be saints. Humans and angels have distinct natures, but that doesn’t preclude angels from being saints. Angels cannot “become” humans, but can take on the appearance of humans. Humans, however, cannot become angels, but can become pure spirit, such as the Angels. The question is, “how can both become saints?”

Perhaps we should define saint as below:

1. “beings with the power of reason and with freedom to make personal moral decisions” a. This is not exclusive to the different natures of angels or humans.
2. pure spirit, with access to the Beatific Vision,
   a. Angels were created with the Beatific Vision
   b. Humans share in the redemption of Christ to participate in the Beatific Vision
3. ‘freely chosen to be’ “joined with God forever in a life free from decay, and share in his life and happiness.” (Reference Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World, Nos. 18 and 21.) Source.
   a. Angels chose sides during the Great Fall
   b. Humans choose daily to persevere against sin and cooperate in/with Grace

Angels do not exclusively dwell in Heaven, although they can enter therein freely because they are “pure spirit.” In fact, the thought just came to me that Rapha-El is one of the “seven archangels which are continually before the throne of God,” but “continually” here could not be literal if we believe that Rapha-El travelled with Tobias. Also, our Guardian Angels may traverse into Heaven while we are under their charge while there are “in residence” on earth, with us.

Similarly, saints who were once incarnated do visit earth in apparitions, and do not dwell exclusively in Heaven, .

Inasmuch as guardian angels may be saints as they are able to access the Beatific Vision, they are not each particularly named. Or, if they are, we do not know that name and have been prohibited to seeking that name. Yet, we have the names of the choirs and three (or seven) ArchAngels whose names denote aspects of God.

So, a saint can created to be pure spirit (angel) or can be corporeal first (human). The end result of being a saint is to be in the state/place of Heaven.