Guardian Angels For Unbelievers?

[georgemiller]

Do unbelievers not have a guardian angel or lose their guardian angel based on their unbelief? What about individuals who are not in a state of grace, do they also lose their guardian angel?

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we read, “From infancy to death human life is surrounded by their watchful care and intercession. **Beside each believer **stands an angel as protector and shepherd leading him to life. Already here on earth the Christian life shares by faith in the blessed company of angels and men united in God.” [Catechism of the Catholic Church # 336]

 

[pianistclare]

You answered your question. Angels don’t exist only because we believe. They exist. Period.
Are Saint no less Saints because people don’t think about them?
Peace.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

Do unbelievers not have a guardian angel or lose their guardian angel based on their unbelief? What about individuals who are not in a state of grace, do they also lose their guardian angel?

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we read, “From infancy to death human life is surrounded by their watchful care and intercession. **Beside each believer **stands an angel as protector and shepherd leading him to life. Already here on earth the Christian life shares by faith in the blessed company of angels and men united in God.” [Catechism of the Catholic Church # 336]

IMO that ALL people have a guardian angel - even unbelievers and wicked people. God wants nothing more than for souls to come to him. To assist in this end he has assigned all human souls an angel. God doesn’t shut himself off from certain people. God stands at the door and knocks every minute of every person’s life. It is the individual soul which rejects God - God never rejects a soul.

 

[thistle]

IMO that ALL people have a guardian angel - even unbelievers and wicked people. God wants nothing more than for souls to come to him. To assist in this end he has assigned all human souls an angel. God doesn’t shut himself off from certain people. God stands at the door and knocks every minute of every person’s life. It is the individual soul which rejects God - God never rejects a soul.

So why does the Church teach that beside each believer stands an angel as protector?
If believers and non-believers have a guardian angel why would the Church not teach beside everyone stands an angel as protector?

That seems clear that unbelievers do not have a guardian angel.

 

[georgemiller]

So why does the Church teach that beside each believer stands an angel as protector?
If believers and non-believers have a guardian angel why would the Church not teach beside everyone stands an angel as protector?

That seems clear that unbelievers do not have a guardian angel.

Thank you, I believe that was my original question, however, your statement of the question is better. But just in case, do non believers have a guardian angel and if they do why does the Church specifically teach that beside each believer their is a guardian angel?

 

[thistle]

Thank you, I believe that was my original question, however, your statement of the question is better. But just in case, do non believers have a guardian angel and if they do why does the Church specifically teach that beside each believer their is a guardian angel?

Someone might produce a Church document about this but I have not seen any document in which the Church teaches that everyone (including non-believers has a guardian angel).
The Church teaching specifies believers have a guardian angel.

The omission by the Church on non-believers could be one of two things. Either non-believers do not have a guardian angel or the Church is silent because it does not know.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

So why does the Church teach that beside each believer stands an angel as protector?
If believers and non-believers have a guardian angel why would the Church not teach beside everyone stands an angel as protector?

That seems clear that unbelievers do not have a guardian angel.

Well, that would suck.

 

[Mintaka]

Here’s an old essay by Fr. Hardon about guardian angels.

"We may say it is the common teaching of Church commentators that every human being has a guardian spirit in so far as he is human, and not precisely as a result of baptism and a state of grace.

"St. Jerome therefore says that this angelic custody begins at birth. “What great dignity,” he exclaims, “belongs to souls, that each has an angel delegated to watch over it from the moment of its birth!”(Commentary on Matthew 18:10) …

St. Anselm simply declares, “Every soul is committed to an angel at the moment when it is united with a body.”"

 

[thistle]

Here’s an old essay by Fr. Hardon about guardian angels.

"We may say it is the common teaching of Church commentators that every human being has a guardian spirit in so far as he is human, and not precisely as a result of baptism and a state of grace.

"St. Jerome therefore says that this angelic custody begins at birth. “What great dignity,” he exclaims, “belongs to souls, that each has an angel delegated to watch over it from the moment of its birth!”(Commentary on Matthew 18:10) …

St. Anselm simply declares, “Every soul is committed to an angel at the moment when it is united with a body.”"

I realise there are many opinions on guardian angels but the only thing that counts is what the Church actually teaches.

 

[Padster]

Someone might produce a Church document about this but I have not seen any document in which the Church teaches that everyone (including non-believers has a guardian angel).
The Church teaching specifies believers have a guardian angel.

The omission by the Church on non-believers could be one of two things. Either non-believers do not have a guardian angel or the Church is silent because it does not know.

Nonsense. You haven’t read enough literature on this subject to make a judgement like that. Try reading ‘The Angels’ by Dom Anscar Vonier. Every single person on this planet has a guardian angel whether they are a believer or not. And I can personally vouch that they are real, and they are far more gentle and kind than us humans are with our preconceptions and massive egos. Though, to be honest, ‘gentle and kind’ seems a bit twee and perhaps does them a dis-service, because they go way beyond those descriptions.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[thistle]

Nonsense. You haven’t read enough literature on this subject to make a judgement like that.** Try reading ‘The Angels’ by Dom Anscar Vonier.** Every single person on this planet has a guardian angel whether they are a believer or not. And I can personally vouch that they are real, and they are far more gentle and kind than us humans are with our preconceptions and massive egos. Though, to be honest, ‘gentle and kind’ seems a bit twee and perhaps does them a dis-service, because they go way beyond those descriptions.

Best wishes,
Padster

That is NOT the Church teaching. As I said in my previous post there are many opinions but the only thing that counts is what the Church teaches and the Church teaches that BELIEVERS have a guardian angel. Anything else is pure speculation. The book you refer to is NOT Church teaching. It is private opinion.

 

[Padster]

That is NOT the Church teaching. As I said in my previous post there are many opinions but the only thing that counts is what the Church teaches and the Church teaches that BELIEVERS have a guardian angel. Anything else is pure speculation. The book you refer to is NOT Church teaching. It is private opinion.

You argument would hold water had the Church not changed its mind over the years. The Church once taught that the world was flat, that organ donation was wrong. It once had a hand in burning Joan of Arc at the stake, and then later canonised her. It locked up Galileo for stating what we all now know to be the truth.

I take it from your assertion that children do not have a guardian angel then? How are babies and toddlers supposed to believe when they have no understanding or concept of belief? What about people with mental illness? And I suppose this teaching only extends to people of the Catholic faith, does it not?

What a picture you paint of God. What very human traits you superimpose onto Him: vindictiveness, bitterness, anger, capriciousness. I, as a human am full of these traits. The Supreme Being is not.

You need to rid yourself of your ‘head religion’, my friend.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[Boy_Wonder]

That seems clear that unbelievers do not have a guardian angel.

That’s a pretty mean-spirited concept of God. I’m basing my OPINION on the portrait of God which Jesus paints in the gospel and the writings of various saints who understood the mercy and love that God has for EVERY human soul. If someone falls away from the Church, I can’t picture God shutting off an avenue of return. Not after reading of how the father of the prodigal son ran to receive him, how he washed and clothed the son, put a ring on his finger, slaughtered the fatted calf, and held a celebration. Not after reading how the good shepherd left the other 99 in search of the one lost sheep and returned rejoicing when he found it. That God would not recall an angel in a fit of pique.

 

[Nelka]

We all have guardian angels, the unbelievers just ignore them.

 

[thistle]

You argument would hold water had the Church not changed its mind over the years. The Church once taught that the world was flat, that organ donation was wrong. It once had a hand in burning Joan of Arc at the stake, and then later canonised her. It locked up Galileo for stating what we all now know to be the truth.

I take it from your assertion that children do not have a guardian angel then? How are babies and toddlers supposed to believe when they have no understanding or concept of belief? What about people with mental illness? And I suppose this teaching only extends to people of the Catholic faith, does it not?

What a picture you paint of God. What very human traits you superimpose onto Him: vindictiveness, bitterness, anger, capriciousness. I, as a human am full of these traits. The Supreme Being is not.

You need to rid yourself of your ‘head religion’, my friend.

Best wishes,
Padster

You are wrong. The Church has NEVER changed a teaching.
The Church does not teach science so your remark about it teaching the world was flat is nonsense.

By the way, instead of a personal attack on me which is forbidden under forum rules (but I’ll let it go this time) why don’t you address the Church teaching. You have speculated on everything else. Tell me why the Church teaches that BELIEVERS have a guardian angel. Why doesn’t the Church teach that everyone has a guardian angel?

 

[georgemiller]

I guess the best answer for me from all the posts is that the Church specifically teaches that all believers have a guardian angel, as for all other individuals based on limited Church teaching from the Catechism- one just doesn’t know. Yes, we can believe what we want based on a God of love and good but based on the teaching of the Catholic Catechism one can only say with certainty that the Church teaches believers have a guardian angel. Any thing more would be speculation and maybe real good speculation based on a God of Good and Love, but still not officially taught by the Catholic Church. Thank you.

 

[Padster]

You are wrong. The Church has NEVER changed a teaching.
The Church does not teach science so your remark about it teaching the world was flat is nonsense.

By the way, instead of a personal attack on me which is forbidden under forum rules (but I’ll let it go this time) why don’t you address the Church teaching. You have speculated on everything else. Tell me why the Church teaches that BELIEVERS have a guardian angel. Why doesn’t the Church teach that everyone has a guardian angel?

If you will kindly answer my question concerning children, then I shall be happy to address yours. Tell me why the Church is happy to deny children the protection of a guardian because they cannot understand the concept of belief. Tell me why the Church is happy to deny the protection of a guardian to adults with the mental age of a child who perhaps cannot also grasp the idea of belief. Would we deny the protection of a human guardian to an orphan because it cannot understand the concept of belief? Of course not, and therefore I am happy to stand by my assertion that your opinion on this is nonsense.

If I may say so, your accusation of a personal attack on my part is ludicrous.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[thistle]

If you will kindly answer my question concerning children, then I shall be happy to address yours. Tell me why the Church is happy to deny children the protection of a guardian because they cannot understand the concept of belief. Tell me why the Church is happy to deny the protection of a guardian to adults with the mental age of a child who perhaps cannot also grasp the idea of belief. Would we deny the protection of a human guardian to an orphan because it cannot understand the concept of belief? Of course not, and therefore I am happy to stand by my assertion that your opinion on this is nonsense.

If I may say so, your accusation of a personal attack on my part is ludicrous.

Best wishes,
Padster

" the Church is happy to deny children…etc". Are you condemning me or the Church or both??

The Church teaching specifies believers have a guardian angel. It does not teach everyone has a guardian angel.

What happens to children? We don’t know. We can only speculate.

Just like the Church does not know if an unbaptised child who dies is saved or not which is why the Church instructs us to get a baby baptised as soon as possible after birth.

By the way your last sentence is a personal attack, if you want an example.
When the Church does not teach on a specific matter and people can have different opinions neither person is entitled to condemn the other person’s view. They may give their opinions without the hostility that you have shown.

 

[Padster]

" the Church is happy to deny children…etc". Are you condemning me or the Church or both??

If you are both stating that children cannot receive the protection of a guardian angel because they do not yet have the understanding to become a ‘believer’, then yes, I am condemning you both. It is a disgraceful stance to take, whether you are a worldwide faith or an individual, because it limits the Supreme Being to the preconceptions of the destructive human ego. Such an appalling attitude suggests that God’s love is conditional, which is absolutely untrue.

The Church teaching specifies believers have a guardian angel. It does not teach everyone has a guardian angel.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

What happens to children? We don’t know. We can only speculate.
Just like the Church does not know if an unbaptised child who dies is saved or not which is why the Church instructs us to get a baby baptised as soon as possible after birth.

Here is where you hole your argument below the waterline. For if we accept your argument that unbelievers do not have a guardian angel, then getting a child baptised is still not enough. It still won’t have a guardian angel even after it is baptised. It is a child. It has no concept or understanding of belief. Therefore it cannot be a ‘believer’:It will be baptised but will not be under any protection.

By the way your last sentence is a personal attack, if you want an example.
When the Church does not teach on a specific matter and people can have different opinions neither person is entitled to condemn the other person’s view. They may give their opinions without the hostility that you have shown.

I do love our little debates Mr Thistle, but it is sad that you always find recourse to hurl accusations at me concerning your hurt feelings. Dare I suggest that it is perhaps because you feel you are losing the argument at these times? I would be gentler on you had you yourself not shown such hostility to others on this forum on a variety of topics.

Now I have answered all your questions. Clearly you do not wish to answer mine so I’ll consider our little discussion closed to allow others their say. Merry Christmas!

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[thistle]

If you are both stating that children cannot receive the protection of a guardian angel because they do not yet have the understanding to become a ‘believer’, then yes, I am condemning you both. It is a disgraceful stance to take, whether you are a worldwide faith or an individual, because it limits the Supreme Being to the preconceptions of the destructive human ego. Such an appalling attitude suggests that God’s love is conditional, which is absolutely untrue.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Here is where you hole your argument below the waterline. For if we accept your argument that unbelievers do not have a guardian angel, then getting a child baptised is still not enough. It still won’t have a guardian angel even after it is baptised. It is a child. It has no concept or understanding of belief.** Therefore it cannot be a ‘believer’:**It will be baptised but will not be under any protection.

I do love our little debates Mr Thistle, but it is sad that you always find recourse to hurl accusations at me concerning your hurt feelings. Dare I suggest that it is perhaps because you feel you are losing the argument at these times? I would be gentler on you had you yourself not shown such hostility to others on this forum on a variety of topics.

Now I have answered all your questions. Clearly you do not wish to answer mine so I’ll consider our little discussion closed to allow others their say. Merry Christmas!

Best wishes,
Padster

You are wrong. The child is a believer once baptised because baptism removes all sin and the child is reborn and sanctified in Christ.

As for your first paragraph yet another rant. You are making things up. Condemning me is one thing but I strongly object to you condemning the Church.
You don’t seem to know what the Church teaches and when there is a teaching that you don’t appear to agree with or if one is lacking then you put forward your opinion as fact.

The Church has NO teaching as to whether non-believers have a guardian angel. They may or may not have but the Church only teaches that BELIEVERS have a guardian angel.
The Church has NO teaching as to whether unbaptised children who die are saved or not. The Church leaves that to God’s mercy because it does not know.

As I have asked before if you have a Church document teaching that believers and non-believers have a guardian angel then let’s see it. If not all you have is an opinion, which you are entitled to have but not entitled to state it as fact.