Guardian Angels

[doanli]

As our guardian angel is only with us from conception to death I guess they are either reassigned upon conception of a new life or return to Heaven.

But I want to meet my guardian angel!

 

[NeedImprovement]

But I want to meet my guardian angel!

It would seem almost as natural, if not moreso , as wanting to meet some of the Saints…wouldn’t it ?

Cardinal John Henry Newman (to be beatified this coming September …cardinalnewman.org/s/206/cardinalnewman.aspx?sid=206&gid=1&pgid=1645 )

… would surely tell you your chances are pretty good. Here, from the same book quoted two posts previously - St. Michael And The Angels [pgs 34-35], is a poem Cardinal Newman wrote to his own guardian angel… or as the book refers to them:

"… Let us ask the Precious Blood to be our thank-offering for so great a favor as his companionship, while with boundless faith and tenderest affection we repeat to him those precious words addressed by Cardinal Newman to his own cherished Guardian Spirit:

My oldest friend, mine from the hour
When first I drew my breath;
My faithful friend, that shall be mine,
Unfailling till my death.

Thou hast been ever at my side;
My Maker to thy trust
Consigned my soul, what time he framed
The infant child of dust.

Thou wast my sponsor at the font;
And thou, each budding year,
Didst whisper elements of truth
Into my childish ear.

And thou wilt linger round my bed,
When life is ebbing low;
Of doubt, impatience and of gloom,
The jealous sleepless foe.

Mine when I stand before the judge;
And mine if spared to stay
Within the golden furnace till
My sin is burned away.

And mine, O Brother of my soul,
When my release shall come;
Thy gentle arms shall lift me then,
Thy wings shall waft me home.

 

[Shin]

First, I did not say the Church requires us not to believe in private revelations. I said the Church does not require us to believe them. We are free to believe or not believe in any private revelation.

Second, the problem I have with inaccuracies/contradictions in “approved” private revelations is that for me it casts some doubt on everything being genuine.

Only one of the people you cited is canonized.

I know you’re repeating what others have said about these people and their revelations but I think it would be more fair to go to the actual sources than the commentary in such a case, and not criticize so lightly.

All of these writings contain so much of potentially great benefit, approached properly, I think your approach is rather too negative.

 

[thistle]

Only one of the people you cited is canonized.

I know you’re repeating what others have said about these people and their revelations but I think it would be more fair to go to the actual sources than the commentary in such a case, and not criticize so lightly.

All of these writings contain so much of potentially great benefit, approached properly, I think your approach is rather too negative.

I get much more out of the writings of people like Bishop Fulton Sheen than I do out of many of the “approved” private revelations and I can be assured a lot of rubbish is not being mixed in with any beneficial parts which makes the whole questionable.

 

[NeedImprovement]

"thistle:

…Anne Emmerich said 3 nails were used and Jesus was nailed to the cross while it was still on the ground.
St Bridget said 4 nails were used and Jesus was nailed to the cross while it was upright and in place…

Only one of the people you cited is canonized.

I know you’re repeating what others have said about these people and their revelations but I think it would be more fair to go to the actual sources than the commentary in such a case, and not criticize so lightly.

All of these writings contain so much of potentially great benefit, approached properly, I think your approach is rather too negative.

I think I may have been one who reaped a measure of the potential benefit of those writings. At the same time , maybe I could shed some light on some of the potential damage that thistle is hinting at.

This is a true story (hope I can explain it clearly to you guys, because when I started running into obstacles I had to try and put it all behind me). It began somewhere around 14 or 15 years ago. When I’d gone to buy a scapular, I noticed a little booklet called The Magnificent Promises. It was new, but what really drew me to it was, in that particular version of the publication, the images of Jesus during His Passion which marked each page. They looked like they came from an era at least 50 years earlier, and although they were only 2-tone, each one (at least, in my opinion) clearly denoted His suffering.

Well, eventually I got to reading it, and it contained certain of purported revelations to St. Brigid (Bridget). It helped immensely in the amount of time and depth I gave to pondering the Passion of our Lord. A little later, I read some other material containing private revelations (material, some of which has since been condemned by a particular “visionary’s” bishop). I’m sorry I can’t remember all the names, but as I said I put it all behind me. To date , I still love to read the writings of St. Bridget. Oh and BTW, the Magnificent Promises prayers were supposed to be recited for a particular period of consecutive days (I blew that one [see my screen name] ).

There’s our background info.

At that same time, a friend of mine (who is now a Franciscan friar) was reading (if I recall correctly) Venerable Mary of Agreda and several other mystics.

One evening during conversation I said to him, "According to St. Bridget Our Lord had received 5,480 (I just did a search on the internet to make sure the number was right) blows during His Passion. My friend countered, “That’s interesting”, and continued to tell me that another mystic had said Jesus received (I’m sorry - don’t recall the exact number) somewhere in the vicinity of 5,200 blows.

Instead of arguing, I said, “So we could at least agree that he received over 5,000 blows.”

Then we came to the different accounts of how many nails were used in the Crucifixion. I’m used to the three (but even one of the images in that book had four), and there was even one account of a smaller nail being used for the first of His sacred feet to hold it in place while a larger nail then proceeded to transfix both feet.

Instead of arguing, I said, “So we can at least agree there was a nail wound in each - in His left foot and in His right.”

To help you undertand the point coming, please consider here what thistle said earlier about some accounts of Jesus being crucified in an upright position, while others have Him crucified before the Cross is lifted up.

Now, something like conflicting opinions of exactly how long after Our Lord’s death our Blessed Mother took her place in Heaven, I can live with.

But when someone starts messing with the image one of the faithful have in their minds of Jesus’ Passion and Cricifixion, that’s a lot more serious. Instead of one being able to go into contemplation/ meditation with a set image in one’s mind, it can become a blur…instead of a solid singular concept, a set of images from which one must choose- a distraction; which often holds one in check at the stage of how His Sufferings were initiated, rather than being a stepping stone to contemplating what He suffered and why He suffered it.

I don’t know if anyone else thinks the way I do, but it isn’t uncommon for me to contemplate a mental image of Jesus Crucified at the moment of consecration during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I can’t stress enough to you how all of the aforementioned affected this image in a negative way.

To me, it was like trying to watch Jesus being crucified while someone waves their hand in front of your face, or pulls on your arm and says in your ear…“Hey!..Hey…!”…or does all three of those at the same time

I understand what both of my fellow members thistle and Shin are saying, but my personal way of proceeding, since going through what I described, is that I’m much more selective when it comes to private revelations now; if I lean in their direction at all, it’s at a much less acute angle .

To top it all off, my guadian angel knows all these things (how many nails, how many wounds…etc). Maybe I should just confide those things to him. I already ask for his help to pray during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[JohnCS]

Since we are talking about Guardian Angels anyway, I’d like to add a question to the forum. What are our Guardian Angels capable of doing? Other than praying for us, how, exactly, do they protect us? Can they and do they intervene in the material world such as changing the trajectory of a crashing vehicle so that it will miss us instead of hitting us? Do they “fight” with demon’s who are trying to tempt us and if so how? Are all guardian angels created equally powerful? Are some weaker than others? Can some fend off demons better than others, etc… are there any Church writings on any speculation about these specifics? If not what are your opinions. Thanks and God bless,

John

 

[Shin]

Since we are talking about Guardian Angels anyway, I’d like to add a question to the forum. What are our Guardian Angels capable of doing? Other than praying for us, how, exactly, do they protect us? Can they and do they intervene in the material world such as changing the trajectory of a crashing vehicle so that it will miss us instead of hitting us? Do they “fight” with demon’s who are trying to tempt us and if so how? Are all guardian angels created equally powerful? Are some weaker than others? Can some fend off demons better than others, etc… are there any Church writings on any speculation about these specifics? If not what are your opinions. Thanks and God bless,

Yes, they can and do intervene in the material world. The demons tempt us, the guardian angels urge virtue and resistant to temptation. Every guardian angel is different, none is equal to the other. (no human being is equal to another either, but the angels are far more diverse)

The least angel is because of God’s grace, more powerful than the greatest devil, it is a complete no contest. However, because of God’s justice, God restricts this overwhelming ability so that the devils are allowed to tempt and have authority over those who respond to their temptations.

Thus it is that it is a little war of ideas between the angel and the devil within the human soul – both propose courses of action, and the person chooses which he prefers, the devil’s way or the angel’s way.

If you want your guardian angel to help you, you must pray for that help, and the angel will help you more than before. If you have some specific problem or trouble tomorrow, talk to your angel and ask him to help you with it, and he will without a doubt help in some fashion as they are very pleased by such requests and pious and reverent conversation.

If there’s a person you want to help, ask that person’s guardian angel to help you with that person. One can also greet guardian angels of people with a prayer when you meet people, it is good and respectful to acknowledge their presence. Angels guard people and places and have many responsibilities.

 

[NeedImprovement]

I just posted something on angels in another thread from a book I have here…Thought it might provide a little more food for reflection in this thread too :

It has been quite a while since I read “My Way of Life” cited in my previous post. I have the book in front of me now and there is a considerable amount of good stuff in section on angels. However, my paraphrase was lacking in accuracy. Here is what the book actually has printed in it:

[pg 67] “Not even a child is puzzled about how an angel gets its clothes on over such huge wings ; for it is clear the wings we give to angels are a symbol and nothing more…” *

The book is entitled “My Way of Life” ; Pocket Edition of St. Thomas , The Summa Simplified for Everyone; by Walter Farrel, O.P., S.T.M. , and Martin J. Healy, S.T.,© 1952 , Confraternity of the Precious Blood , .

Here are a couple of selected excerpts from the Chapter V section on The Angels:

[pg 65] “As in numbers, so in variety, the angelic world is a splendor that dims the variety of the physical world into a plainness approaching homely monotony. There are no angelic families or races ; each individual angel stands apart from all the others more distinctly different than an elephant from a fly. The pleasant individual differences we notice from man to man and woman to woman are as far from the differences between the angels as a ripple on a pond is from the towering power and smashing violence of a stormy sea. At each encounter in the heavenly courts, the angels see differences greater than those which distinguish a rose from a woman. Multiply this by the countless number of the angels; the heavenly choirs are a luminous image of divinity’s perfections stupendous in its beauty, staggering in its wide variety. Yet all this is no more than a foggy outline of the beauty of God…”

[pg 66] " Angels were not made to give life to bodies as were our human souls. The bodies in which they have appeared from time to time among us were the appearances of bodies taken on for our comfort ; not real, but apparent that we might the more easily accept the angel, his message, his companionship. None of the things that are proper to living bodies could be accomplished by these apparent bodies of the angels : they could not digest a meal, beget children, become tired, or wake refreshed from sleep … Its completely spiritual nature in its independence and power has no need of a body. It can get far more done than any strong man, indeed than any material force. It is free from the barriers that the physical inevitably imposes on our knowledge and our love. : free from the sluggishness, fatigue and distraction that makes our lifetime harvest of truth so skimpy…"

*Continuation of first quote cited in this post *[from pg 67] - " Not even a child is puzzled about how an angel gets its clothes on over such huge wings ; for it is clear the wings we give to angels are a symbol and nothing more. The swift flight of a bird contrasted with the trudging step of a man is a fitting symbol of smooth, untrammeled, rapid movement, and so a ceturies-old expression of the celerity of angelic passage. In our own times, we might appeal to the soundless swoop of a diving jet plane to help our stumbling minds to follow the flight of an angel ; we would come closer to reality by following with a flick of the eye the almost instantaneous thrust of lightning. We have the most accurate measurement of that angelic progress in the time it takes our own minds to jump from city to city, across oceans, over five, ten , or fifty years ; for it is thus that an angel moves…"

 

[Wesley7]

Prayer to the Guardian Angel

O Holy Guardian Angel, to whose care God, in His mercy, has committed me, stand by me now and at my last hour; protect me against all the powers of darkness; defend me from all my enemies, and conduct my soul to the mansions of bliss.

Angel of God, my Guardian dear, to whom his love commits me here, ever to this day be at my side, to light and guard to rule and guide. Amen

 

[Roy5]

If there are Guardian Angels, lots of them seem to fall asleep on the job,

Think of all the innocent people - millions of them devout Christians - who have been slaughtered in wars.

Think of others who die regularly of disease, in traffic accidents, from sudden heart attacks or strokes, and countless other causes.

And what about babies aborted, most often naturally (God's doing?), or in abortion facilities?

And what about all the people who may survive but live in continual misery, hunger, depression, bitterness, chronic poor health, often abused, orphans, etc.?

Where are those Guardian Angels that should be protecting them? 

As you can see, I have trouble believing in Guardian Angels. I regard the concept as suited to the mind of children, something that can provide them solace and courage.

However, I do believe in the eternal providence of God and leave the rest in His Divine Hands. I like the hymn whose first stanza reads: "Farther along we'll know all about it, farther along we'll understand why, cheer up my brother, live in the sunshine, we'll understand it all bye and bye."

 

[NeedImprovement]

If there are Guardian Angels, lots of them seem to fall asleep on the job,

Think of all the innocent people - millions of them devout Christians - who have been slaughtered in wars.

Think of others who die regularly of disease, in traffic accidents, from sudden heart attacks or strokes, and countless other causes.

And what about babies aborted, most often naturally (God's doing?), or in abortion facilities?

And what about all the people who may survive but live in continual misery, hunger, depression, bitterness, chronic poor health, often abused, orphans, etc.?

Where are those Guardian Angels that should be protecting them? 

As you can see, I have trouble believing in Guardian Angels. I regard the concept as suited to the mind of children, something that can provide them solace and courage.

However, I do believe in the eternal providence of God and leave the rest in His Divine Hands. I like the hymn whose first stanza reads: "Farther along we'll know all about it, farther along we'll understand why, cheer up my brother, live in the sunshine, we'll understand it all bye and bye."

I find there isn’t too much in the above-quoted post that I can agree with. I do find it unfortunate that some people don’t believe in the existence of their guardian Angels.Perhaps with time… always their prerogative though.

However it would appear from the quote that a problem exists more in the belief of the existence of Angels in general, rather than that tract of angelology which is particular to guardian Angels.

I regret that in my limited opinion, I find the above to be an uninformed restrictive view - thus one which I wouldn’t recommend for children, as it exhibits the potential to suffocate their imagination.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Roy5:

… Think of all the innocent people - millions of them devout Christians - who have been slaughtered in wars … Think of others who die regularly of disease, in traffic accidents, from sudden heart attacks or strokes, and countless other causes…

You appear to be mixing two issues. Sickness and death are the consequences of sin – of the fall ; not because some guardian Angels are falling asleep on the job. I thought this view was commonly held by all Christians. I agree with your depiction in as far as it isn’t pretty and doesn’t seem just that millions are murdered in different ways, but this has to do with free will- the will of those who murder. A guardian Angel cannot act upon our will :

newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm

“…Our guardian angels can act upon our senses (I:111:4) and upon our imaginations (I:111:3) — not, however, upon our wills, except “per modum suadentis”, viz. by working on our intellect, and thus upon our will, through the senses and the imagination. (I:106:2; and I:111:2)…”

In Acts 12:5-17 , St. Peter is freed from prison by a guardian Angel, yet at the appointed time, St. Peter is believed to have suffered martyrdom by crucifixion … upside down at his request because he said he was not worthy to die in the same way as his Lord.

Maybe that dear St. Peter was asking the same question as you when he drew his sword to defend our Blessed Lord as he was being arrested in the Garden of gethsemene…but what was Jesus’ response ?

[Matt 26:52-54]

Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its sheath, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Do you think that I cannot call upon my Father and he will not provide me at this moment with more than** twelve legions of angels**?

But then how would the scriptures be fulfilled which say that it must come to pass in this way?"

Roy5:

… And what about babies aborted, most often naturally (God’s doing?), or in abortion facilities?..

I can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone – Christian or not, suggest that God is responsible for abortion.

“…the cause of most miscarriages is due to chromosomal abnormalities, there is not much that can be done to prevent them. One vital step is to get as healthy as you can before conceiving to provide a healthy atmosphere for conception to occur…”

No one is yet able to explain precisely why the chromosomal abnormalities take place… so would you say, because we don’t know exactly what causes many types of cancer that God is the author of cancer too? At the moment of conception God gives the soul ; the corporeal elements are given by the man and the woman. God/Jesus, calls the devil a murderer [John 8:44], but do you realize that you’re suggesting/implying that God is a murderer …?..The Author of life ?

The figures seem a little off too:

“Miscarriage is the most common type of pregnancy loss, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). Studies reveal that anywhere from 10-25% of all clinically recognized pregnancies will end in miscarriage. Chemical pregnancies may account for 50-75% of all miscarriages. This occurs when a pregnancy is lost shortly after implantation, resulting in bleeding that occurs around the time of her expected period. The woman may not realize that she conceived when she experiences a chemical pregnancy.”
americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/miscarriage.html

“Nearly half of pregnancies among American women are unintended, and four in 10 of these are terminated by abortion.[1] Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.[2]”
guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html#2

The first figure that 10-25% of all clinically recognized pregnancies will end in miscarriage, is speculation based on studies, and by their own admission, it could be as low as 10%.

The second figure is based on facts and statistics, that, **Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion (in the USA)” **They mean induced abortion.

Roy5:

… I regard the concept as suited to the mind of children, something that can provide them solace and courage…

In part yes, in part no. Believing in the presence of one’s guardian Angel is not childish, but it does take a faith which is childlike [Matt 18:3] . We should try to maintain a childlike faith/trust in God throughout our entire lives…since Jesus himself taught us to call him Father.

It is recounted in Chesterton’s “SAINT THOMAS AQUINAS, The Dumb Ox”, as he was succumbing to a terminal illness, St. Thomas Aquinas - the Angelic Doctor, was blessed with the opportunity of receiving the sacrament of Confession on his deathbed, after which [pg 143] “…the confessor, who had been with him in the inner chamber, ran forth as if in fear, and whispered that his confession had been that of a child of five.”

Finally, how would you interpret this passage of scripture Roy 5 ? :

Matt 18:10

“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father.”

 

[FCEGM]

An excellent book on the subject of the Angels is the late Jean Cdl. Danielou’s The Angels and Their Mission According to the Fathers of the Church. :angel1: