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Trelow
Guest
A huge part of the problem with our society is that no one has any guilt or shame anymore.
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Zooey
Guest
If you have done something to be ashamed of, shame is a good thing. If you are guilty of something, guilt is a good thing. Neither one makes you feel good, and as a result, you are more likely to at least try to make it right, and not do the same thing again.
On the other hand, some people just go around feeling guilty & ashamed all the time, which I believe is pathological. These people need help.
And of course, we do indeed have sociopaths who feel no guilt or shame about anything.
So, I voted, that it depends.
On the other hand, some people just go around feeling guilty & ashamed all the time, which I believe is pathological. These people need help.
And of course, we do indeed have sociopaths who feel no guilt or shame about anything.
So, I voted, that it depends.
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fix
Guest
Yes, I guess you are referring to a psychological problem or a case of scrupulosity.
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FiremanFrank
Guest
Yes lillyofthevalley, Guilt and Shame are meant to be one of our soul’s natural spiritual reaction to sin - if we have a properly formed conscience.
But to determine if what you’re feeling is appropriate to the actions that have caused you your guilt and shame - you must seek out a “good” spiritual director/confessor.
He can help you then, to sort out any scrupulosity - if in fact it does exist in your situation.
frank
But to determine if what you’re feeling is appropriate to the actions that have caused you your guilt and shame - you must seek out a “good” spiritual director/confessor.
He can help you then, to sort out any scrupulosity - if in fact it does exist in your situation.
frank
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Holly3278
Guest
It depends on why the person is feeling guilt and shame. Sometimes it is a good thing.
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chevalier
Guest
If you feel guilty for something, it means your conscience still works. Same with shame. When someone doesn’t feel guilt or shame where he or she should, that’s a problem.
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otm
Guest
Yup yup yup!
Seriously, it is a heavy burden for those who are afflicted by it. It is easy also to get oneself trapped in a form of it by"trying" to be holy, and failing to understand what holiness is all about.
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
no one has mentioned the obvious
without guilt and shame how can there be pride?
If I’m ok and you’re ok, all the time, regardless of our actions then what drives us to be better?
without guilt and shame how can there be pride?
If I’m ok and you’re ok, all the time, regardless of our actions then what drives us to be better?
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cathgal
Guest
It shows a person STILL has a conscience.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Steve Andersen:
Guilt and shame are usually destructive, except to the extent that they signal we are on a faulty course calling us to seek a change.
We don’t have to feel guilty about making a mistake or getting the wrong answer from time to time; that’s what learning is about. Too many people consider correction equivalent to punishment, and too often most “correction” kids experience in school is, in fact, punishment in terms of embarrassment in front of class, bad grade, etc. So learning and repenting (changing) are seen as painful processes. When one is born of the spirit, one can begin the purgation process and get rid of the shackles of guilt and shame over a period of time, motivated by pure attraction to the unlimited love of God.
Alan
P.S. That part about “born of the spirit” may not be technically right, but my point is that cleansing (like in the Dark Night) can be done. When one is transformed, then we begin to walk by faith which leads us, through the action of the Holy Spirit, to good decisions. Mistakes are not to feel guilty about, but to learn from, get on with it, and avoid repeating them.
A loving call. Threats of pain really aren’t necessary when you have motivation to love Jesus, which He defined as obeying His commands.
Guilt and shame are usually destructive, except to the extent that they signal we are on a faulty course calling us to seek a change.
We don’t have to feel guilty about making a mistake or getting the wrong answer from time to time; that’s what learning is about. Too many people consider correction equivalent to punishment, and too often most “correction” kids experience in school is, in fact, punishment in terms of embarrassment in front of class, bad grade, etc. So learning and repenting (changing) are seen as painful processes. When one is born of the spirit, one can begin the purgation process and get rid of the shackles of guilt and shame over a period of time, motivated by pure attraction to the unlimited love of God.
Alan
P.S. That part about “born of the spirit” may not be technically right, but my point is that cleansing (like in the Dark Night) can be done. When one is transformed, then we begin to walk by faith which leads us, through the action of the Holy Spirit, to good decisions. Mistakes are not to feel guilty about, but to learn from, get on with it, and avoid repeating them.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Maybe a simpler way to summarize it is this…
I can be shown I am wrong, acknowledge it, apologize for it, and take corrective action, all without necessarily having to feel guilt or shame.
Perhaps some regret if I’ve hurt anyone or failed to help where I really should have, but not guilt and shame in that I have feelings of worthlessness and strong sorrow.
Jesus said “fear not.” Angels seem to go around saying “fear not.” Don’t guilt and shame work primarily through fear? Fear and regret of loss of connections with God and others?
Alan
I can be shown I am wrong, acknowledge it, apologize for it, and take corrective action, all without necessarily having to feel guilt or shame.
Perhaps some regret if I’ve hurt anyone or failed to help where I really should have, but not guilt and shame in that I have feelings of worthlessness and strong sorrow.
Jesus said “fear not.” Angels seem to go around saying “fear not.” Don’t guilt and shame work primarily through fear? Fear and regret of loss of connections with God and others?
Alan
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Trelow
Guest
ANGELUS
Sunday 11 June 1989
FEAR OF THE LORD
Today I want to complete with you the reflection on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Among these gifts, listed last in the enumeration, is the gift of the “Fear of the Lord”.
Sacred Scripture affirms that “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Ps 110 [111] :10; Prov 1: 7) . However, what kind of fear does it mean? It certainly is not that “fear of God” which causes people to flee from every thought and memory of him, as something or someone who disturbs and upsets. This was the state of mind which, according to the Bible, made our first parents, after their sin, hide “themselves from the Lord God among the trees of the garden” (Gen 3:8) . This was also the sentiment of that unfaithful and wicked servant of the gospel parable who hid in the earth the talent that he received (cf. Mt 25:28, 26).
However, this type of fear is not the true concept of the fear which is the gift of the Spirit. Here it is a matter of something much more noble and lofty; it is s sincere and reverential feeling that a person experiences before the tremendous majesty of God, especially when he reflects upon his own infidelity and the danger of being “found wanting” (Dan 5:27) at the eternal judgement which no one can escape. The believer goes and places himself before God with a “contrite spirit” and a “humbled heart” (cf. Ps 50 [51] :19), knowing well that he must await his own salvation “with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). Nonetheless, that does not mean an irrational fear, but a sense of responsibility and fidelity to the law.
- All this is what the Holy Spirit takes up and elevates with the gift of the Fear of the Lord. It certainly does not exclude the trepidation that arises from an awareness of the faults committed and the prospect of divine chastisement, but mitigates it with faith in the divine mercy and with the certitude of the fatherly concern of God who wills the eternal salvation of each one. With this gift, however, the Holy Spirit instils in the soul most of all a filial love which is a sentiment rooted in love of God. The soul is now concerned not to displease God, whom he loves as a Father, not to offend him in anything, to “abide in him” and grow in charity (cf. Jn 15:4-7).
- The practice of the Christian virtues and especially of humility, temperance, chastity and mortification of the senses, depends on this holy and just fear, united in the soul with love for God. Let us recall the exhortation of the Apostle Paul to his Christians: “Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of flesh and spirit, making holiness perfect in the fear of God” (2 Cor 7:11 ).
vatican.va/liturgical_year/pentecost/documents/hf_jp-ii_ang_19890611_en.html
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PJR
Guest
Because shame is Satan’s trick to keep you from accepting and having faith in Christ’s mercy, just as dispair is deadly because you don’t have faith in His providence and faithfulness to you.
fix:
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trailblazer
Guest
Do either lead you closer to God or further away? That is the question. Emotions in and of themselves are neutral, and can be used by God or Satan. Proper discernment with desire to serve God is the key!
Peace & love in Christ,
Bob
Peace & love in Christ,
Bob
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