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CTA1967
Guest
For Mass, would a virtuoso guitar player who can play arrangements of the organ parts or an organ player who misses every other note be more appropriate?
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ethelzguy
Guest
Therein lies the crux of the issue. What is being debated is wholly subjective.
What I may prefer in Mass music may be totally at odds with what someone else prefers. I prefer pipe organs. In fact I LOVE pipe organs. I have traveled many miles in search of some of the best pipe organs in the country. But, my preference for a pipe organ does not render someone elses preference for a guitar or electronic keyboard as inferior.
Bottom line is, it doesn’t matter what I like or dislike. That decision lies with those in authority, and it ain’t ME.
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Cantaloupe
Guest
I think all instruments are suitable for Mass…btw this post isn’t about style, it is about playing the guitar at Mass. I saw someone mention “Lord I Lift Your Name On High” as if it is a bad song…it is a song of worship. It is not a style but a song.
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VociMike
Guest
OK. Does the Church agree with you?
Well I changed the subject of the post to be about style. That’s what happens in threads. Style is a useful subject to talk about because it takes the lyrics out of the discussion. So is any style of music (with good lyrics) OK for Mass? Why or why not?
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VociMike
Guest
Is it wholly subjective that the Church declares Gregorian chant to be the song proper to the Roman Rite? Declares it to be the supreme model and permanent standard of sacred music? That it also holds up sacred polyphony for special recognition? That it singles out the pipe organ as being held in high esteem?
No, these things are not wholly subjective. And they are especially not wholly subjective when one thinks with the mind of the Church, the sensus Ecclesiae. As pope Benedict recently wrote, “Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another.” If everything were wholly subjective then he could not have made such a statement.
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Cantaloupe
Guest
Can you show me where the church doesn’t agree with me?
Yea I know that’s what happens in threads. And I know exactly what you trying to do. Instruments and style are completely different. What do you want me to say?
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VociMike
Guest
How can you know exactly what I’m trying to do when I don’t even know exactly what I’m trying to do?
I just throught it would be interesting to find out the basis for your assertions. If you don’t want to discuss the basis for your assertions, I can cope with that.
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Patrick60
Guest
Electric guitars? Absolutely not.
Acoustic guitars? Absolutely! I myself have probably played acoustic guitar at about 100 different Masses, without the use of any microphones or the existing P.A. system. My voice carries well and the whole thing was strictly a capella. I never had a single negative comment about any of the songs. I did it every Sunday for at least two years. The pastor of the parish was an O.S.B. He was the one who asked me to do it every Sunday, too.
Acoustic guitars and violins all have the same basic components. Is a violin permissible at mass? If so, then there is no reason why an acoustic guitar cannot be a part of a worship setting. It is the style of the music and not so much the instrument that plays it that creates the mood in which worship takes place. Drums, electric bass, and electric guitar are exuberant and celebratory, but not necessarily very worshipful.
All musical instruments are human inventions regardless. The humbling reality is that God made each of us a musical instrument by virtue of our vocal chords.
Acoustic guitars? Absolutely! I myself have probably played acoustic guitar at about 100 different Masses, without the use of any microphones or the existing P.A. system. My voice carries well and the whole thing was strictly a capella. I never had a single negative comment about any of the songs. I did it every Sunday for at least two years. The pastor of the parish was an O.S.B. He was the one who asked me to do it every Sunday, too.
Acoustic guitars and violins all have the same basic components. Is a violin permissible at mass? If so, then there is no reason why an acoustic guitar cannot be a part of a worship setting. It is the style of the music and not so much the instrument that plays it that creates the mood in which worship takes place. Drums, electric bass, and electric guitar are exuberant and celebratory, but not necessarily very worshipful.
All musical instruments are human inventions regardless. The humbling reality is that God made each of us a musical instrument by virtue of our vocal chords.
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VociMike
Guest
So now we have two different views on the question of whether all instruments are suitable for Mass. Maybe Cantalope would like to talk with you about the question. She seems to distrust me.
BTW, what do you think on the question of whether all musical styles are suitable for the Mass?
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Cantaloupe
Guest
If you didn’t notice before someone else discussed electric guitar. Have you found if the church disagrees with me yet? I guess not.
So now we have two different views on the question of whether all instruments are suitable for Mass. Maybe Cantalope would like to talk with you about the question. She seems to distrust me.
BTW, what do you think on the question of whether all musical styles are suitable for the Mass?
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VociMike
Guest
I’m not particularly interested in discussing the electric guitar. I’m interested in the bigger question, are all instruments suitable for Mass. I’m also interested in whether all styles of music are suitable for Mass (and since styles are often intimately tied in with instruments, it’s not an off-the-wall question). Good discussions often proceed from the specific to the general.
If you want to discuss these questions then good. If not then so be it.
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ethelzguy
Guest
If you go back and read the oft-quoted Church documents, you will find that there are very few specifics quoted as to insturment usage.
They do refer to “proper”, and discouraging “profane” uses of music and/or instruments.
Again, very wide open. Electric guitars at Mass are like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. But, that is my personal taste. I have neither the authority, nor do I bear the responsibility for choosing hymns, hymnals, or instruments to be used at Mass.
On the other hand, anyone who has ever heard John Valby could make a case that any keyboard instrument is profane and should not be used at Mass…
They do refer to “proper”, and discouraging “profane” uses of music and/or instruments.
Again, very wide open. Electric guitars at Mass are like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. But, that is my personal taste. I have neither the authority, nor do I bear the responsibility for choosing hymns, hymnals, or instruments to be used at Mass.
On the other hand, anyone who has ever heard John Valby could make a case that any keyboard instrument is profane and should not be used at Mass…
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BSHoop96
Guest
I’m with you…I don’t care for it at all. In Mass.
Heck, I’ve been to see the “Rolling Stones” five times. I love their music. Wouldn’t want to see that at Mass either.
Just my personal opinion.
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Cantaloupe
Guest
1156 "The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art. The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as a combination of sacred music and words, it forms a necessary or integral part of solemn liturgy."20 The composition and singing of inspired psalms, often accompanied by musical instruments, were already closely linked to the liturgical celebrations of the Old Covenant. The Church continues and develops this tradition: “Address . . . one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart.” “He who sings prays twice.” 21 Eph 5:19; St. Augustine, En. in Ps. 72,1 L 36,914; cf. Col 3:16.
This is quoted from the Catechism.
This is quoted from the Catechism.
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Nan_S
Guest
It sure would have been nice if this Catechism had been around in the early 1970s. That’s when I first experienced guitar masses. Unfortunately, too much of the music chosen at that church was not respectful Christian pop.
Week after week we were supposed to sing Simon & Garfunkel’s “The Sounds of Silence (Hello Darkness my old friend…),” and the theme from Jesus Christ Superstar (Jesus Christ, who are you, what have you sacrificed, do you believe what they say you are?).
Even as a teenager I knew this was heresy. What was the pastor thinking?Out of respect for the dead I won’t reveal the parish or the pastor’s name. But I’m sure he racked up some additional time in purgatory for allowing this.
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KingAlfred
Guest
Okay…if we have to have guitar music, I want *Van Halen, Hendrix and Led Zepplin. *
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Hendrix is unavailable, I afraid.Okay…if we have to have guitar music, I want *Van Halen, Hendrix and Led Zepplin. *
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tcraig
Guest
I think classical guitar, where the notes are “picked” rather than strummed (don’t know if this is the technical term) is really beautiful. I’ve also heard that it’s quite difficult to learn, so that’s probably why I’ve never encountered classical guitar at mass. If I did, I wouldn’t have a problem with it but I think it would need appropriate classical music. I just can’t imagine classical guitar and “One Bread, One Body” LOL.
Most of the “guitar masses” that I’ve attended are more of a folk-style playing, the type of strumming one would hear around a campfire. I can’t say this is my favorite as it generally invokes the 1960’s Peter, Paul and Mary vibe that a previous poster alluded to. This doesn’t seem to fit the bill for “sacred” music.
I currently attend mass where we have an electric guitar. (And an electric piano. And a drum set. ) I can’t think of one good reason to have an electric guitar at mass. It seems like once it’s introduced the drums inevitably follow.
Most of the “guitar masses” that I’ve attended are more of a folk-style playing, the type of strumming one would hear around a campfire. I can’t say this is my favorite as it generally invokes the 1960’s Peter, Paul and Mary vibe that a previous poster alluded to. This doesn’t seem to fit the bill for “sacred” music.
I currently attend mass where we have an electric guitar. (And an electric piano. And a drum set.
) I can’t think of one good reason to have an electric guitar at mass. It seems like once it’s introduced the drums inevitably follow.
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I_Believe
Guest
What if you miss a string and play the devil’s chord ?Thank you, Nan,
I am so deathly sick and tired of people who think of guitars at Mass as if they were pentagrammed devil worshiping equipment! Frankly, anyone “deeply disturbed” at seeing guitars played at Mass is deeply disturbed, only not in the way they may think.
For 35 years, I have played my 12 string at probably several thousand Sunday Masses, healing Masses, prayer meetings, prayer services, Penance Services, and retreats. I do not play heavy metal, but mostly contemporary liturgical music with some “golden oldies” (such as “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name,” “Immaculate Mary”, etc.) mixed in. I have played as a volunteer and as a paid member of the music staff.
I have never had any complaints since I always follow the rubrics. What I have always received were compliments - compliments on my voice (which is my primary instrument), my guitar, my choice of songs… to all of which my response has always been and will always be: “Thank you, but you must really thank God because anything I have comes from Him.”
What gives me cause to rejoice, however, is how very, very many people in my lifetime have come to me with tears in their eyes and have shared how my music has helped them to pray.
Not once has anyone been “deeply disturbed.”
As to why I responded:
People with the “deeply disturbed” attitude of the OP, and those with the Christoper M’s attitude (“I must say you have been very lucky to never encounter a guitar mass, and yes they are very common. They are a left over reminder from the 70’s I suppose as I was born in 1984.”) only do a disservice to HMC by posting so controversially (not to mention the pride with which they do so – obviously, one born in 1984 knows so much more than those of us who have been leading music with guitars while they were still pooping in their pants!).
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I_Believe
Guest
Frankly, I’d prefer Sacred Polyphony and Gregorian Chant only.
All I want to hear at Holy mass is the human voice singing praise.
And while I’m ranting
, 86 the pa systems as well. There is nothing more anoying than the amplified human echoing throughout the narthex.
Want contemporary arrangements and band instruments ?
Find six other people. In the US it takes 7 people to start a church. Want a unique and personalized prayer service ? Start your own church and knock yourself out.
It doesn’t belong in the Mass.
Just my opinion. Fire away
All I want to hear at Holy mass is the human voice singing praise.
And while I’m ranting
, 86 the pa systems as well. There is nothing more anoying than the amplified human echoing throughout the narthex.Want contemporary arrangements and band instruments ?
Find six other people. In the US it takes 7 people to start a church. Want a unique and personalized prayer service ? Start your own church and knock yourself out.
It doesn’t belong in the Mass.
Just my opinion. Fire away
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