Guitars at Mass?

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All I know is that I’ll draw a firm line when the choir at my parish buys a synthesizer or a drum-machine. Although, with an electric bass, electric guitar, drum-kit, and keyboard (commonly set to sound like steel drums) already being used, they might not be that far away 😦

I’m young. I listen to rock and other popular styles, but I don’t think they belong in the Mass. They can encourage a horizontal form of worship that, in my experience, turns the Mass into a rock-show. Can music be done tastefully with these instruments? Absolutely. But is it easy for the choir to lose focus on their role and begin to act as performers? Yes (I also speak on this matter from personal experience).
 
I think classical guitar, where the notes are “picked” rather than strummed (don’t know if this is the technical term) is really beautiful. I’ve also heard that it’s quite difficult to learn, so that’s probably why I’ve never encountered classical guitar at mass. If I did, I wouldn’t have a problem with it but I think it would need appropriate classical music. I just can’t imagine classical guitar and “One Bread, One Body” LOL.

Most of the “guitar masses” that I’ve attended are more of a folk-style playing, the type of strumming one would hear around a campfire. I can’t say this is my favorite as it generally invokes the 1960’s Peter, Paul and Mary vibe that a previous poster alluded to. This doesn’t seem to fit the bill for “sacred” music.

I currently attend mass where we have an electric guitar. (And an electric piano. And a drum set. :eek: ) I can’t think of one good reason to have an electric guitar at mass. It seems like once it’s introduced the drums inevitably follow.
Fingerpicking isn’t that hard if people will actually put forth some effort. If someone is going to play in public, in any setting, they need to be practicing at least one hour a day, every day, unless they’ve reached a level of virtuosity. With that said, I’m about to add a few bees to this hornet’s nest of a thread.

To the original poster- Go in confidence to the traditional EF Mass. Go a few times and your concerns will seem like a weird dream.

As far as guitar music at Mass goes, it was one of the big things that drove me out of the Church a few years ago (there were plenty of other issues, also).

I’m a classically-trained pianist and guitarist. I’m the son of a professional pianist, the grandson of two bluegrass guitarists, and the father of a soon-to-be prodigy, I’ve recorded two albums, composed the scores to two low budget movies, so I’m going to add my 2 cents to this musical discussion, because I am begging people to support the traditional music and organ,* to the exclusion of other instruments and styles*.

As for the guitar, one of the biggest problems is that these guitars are staidly strummed in the 60’s folk style. The people who support this style of music don’t realize that most peopel don’t want to hear the neutered music of secular culture de-sacralizing the liturgy. The secular music it’s based on is trite and dated, so why put it into the liturgy? Yes the guitar is an ancient instrument, and yes there are masterpieces by Bach and others that were written for the lute (and even some for the guitar itself), but you will almost never hear these. I would interpret Cardinal Arinze’s “special group” exception to no guitar to mean this kind of situation, but that’s just my opinion.

I guess I’ll speak from the heart, even though I know I’m going to get lashed out at. Based on my experiences, the reason for all of this musical devastation is that these Church guitarists are, frankly, not very talented on the whole. In a secular music situation, if any one of these musicians wanted to open up for us, even at a no-account dive, I would have to say no, even though it would make me feel bad, not because of elitism, but because frankly, we wouldn’t be asked back to that venue, due to the lack of quality in the opening act.

The over-arching issue is this. There was an era where the best musicians on Earth were Christian. This is a far cry from today’s reality. Generally speaking, guitarists play “Christian” music because they know there will always be an accepting audience. There may be a few who play out of a sense of piety, but on the whole it’s an attempt to be a faux-star in an environment where people are just going to take it.

Most talented guitarists of today are not going to play in Church. It’s just a fact. They aren’t going to write pop hymns or anything like that. They are going to be playing in bars, going on tour, recording albums, etc., and taking full advantage of things like drug use, the devotion of women, etc. I know because I’ve been there. To be honest, whenever someone became a “Christian musician,” we’d unfortunately lose respect for that musician, knowing that this change of genre was ultimately due to a lack of creativity and craftsmanship. This is why Christian pop music is largely the same stylistically year by year (though there are some deviations, like hardcore, which ironically, I like a little). I mean, forget fingerpicking. I’d actually like to see one flat-pick.

In theory, a great guitarist could come in, play a guitar work by a master composer, make it completely reverent and mysterious, and help bring people closer to the divine. This isn’t going to happen, though. There’s too much allure in the bars and festivals. Most organists, though, are very talented. The main outlet for an organist is Church, so the better the organist, the more likely he/she is going to play in Church. This is partially true for the piano. There are also too many guitarists, period. Most are grossly incompetent.

Does the guitar music at Mass point hearts and minds towards a mystical reality? Towards a transcendent God that can’t be fathomed? I’d say no. While there’s nothing inherently “wrong” with it, it’s grossly simplified. Frankly, I think it’s banal and childish. I don’t have the mindset of a fourth grader. No adults do. I don’t know why they want the liturgy to be that bare and dumbed down. I benefit from a theologically and artistically in-depth experience at Mass in regards to music. “Lord I Lift Your Name on High” is a song I would teach a 1st grader, both from the standpoint of learning music and learning the Catholic faith. It drags the transcendent down to the level of something too easy to grasp, and that is always a very bad thing, in my opinion. The liturgy should be awe-inspiring, not easily-digestable for us. Only the very best composers should be writing music for the Mass.

Of course, I violate the previous statement myself. I’m not experienced in writing choral music at all, outside of the bluegrass harmony trio setting, but when I became a Christian, I wrote an OF Mass. I actually simplified a lot of it. Some of it ended up being kind of banal. I was spurned on by the hope that God would still regard it as an act of penance. Unfortunately, I was ultimately told that it would be too complicated for a parish choir to sing. It was a big let down.

I went to the EF, and they were casually implementing music by Mozart and Palestrina like it was nothing, so you can imagine what the special music at Masses is like.

I guess to sum it up I’ll ask a few questions. Does the music at Mass create a sense of mystery, history, and the transcendent? Is it art in the strict sense?

These questions are part of a broader issue, at least for me. Can the thinking man, the artist, the theologian, the historian, etc. be fully involved in the life of Christianity? Or is our religion inseparably linked to the banal, simplistic, overly-democratized and aesthetically trite patterns of our secular culture? I firmly believe that if people falling into the categories above are not won over to our Catholic cause, we won’t see a renewal anytime soon. It’s these same exact people who are currently fueling the secular attacks on our faith, in art, in philosophy, etc. The faith has to have a widespread high culture element if western renewal is in the future.

Exactly why the Organ and Chant should always have “Pride of Place,” at every Latin Rite liturgy in the world.

My two cents. Now it’s time to duck and cover…
 
It seems a lot of religious people are traditionalists. I suppose that’s easy to understand when you see how much we’ve messed things up by constantly trying to fix things that didn’t need to be fixed.

However, if religion can be made really enjoyable for young people and they can leave feeling happy and inspired and wanting to produce a better world, rather than feeling angry and rebellious as they often feel after they listen to hard rock on the radio, why not? They might actually “learn” to prefer the type of music that makes them happy if they’re exposed to it.

The same ol’ hymns, while traditionally comforting, are certainly not the most exciting thing in the world to adults let alone teenagers. While I don’t think an entire service should be taken over by guitars, a small portion could definitely liven things up.
 
It seems a lot of religious people are traditionalists. I suppose that’s easy to understand when you see how much we’ve messed things up by constantly trying to fix things that didn’t need to be fixed.

However, if religion can be made really enjoyable for young people and they can leave feeling happy and inspired and wanting to produce a better world, rather than feeling angry and rebellious as they often feel after they listen to hard rock on the radio, why not? They might actually “learn” to prefer the type of music that makes them happy if they’re exposed to it.

The same ol’ hymns, while traditionally comforting, are certainly not the most exciting thing in the world to adults let alone teenagers. While I don’t think an entire service should be taken over by guitars, a small portion could definitely liven things up.
Just looking at it from a utilitarian perspective, does it actually work? Do young people who “listen to hard rock on the radio” want to hear “Catholic pop” (or however you want to describe it) at Mass, performed at the level of parish musicians? Does it actually bring in more young people than it drives away?

I don’t know the answer to that question, but I notice on these forums plenty of young people who are put off by the perceived pandering or “talking down” implied by this style of music.

It would be fascinating to have a real survey of people under 30 and find out how many of them prefer “Catholic pop” at Mass vs. how many prefer chant and polyphony. Based on this article I think the results might surprise the “let’s give the youngsters their own music!” crowd.

Based on the data from this article, the best way to attract young Catholics is with “Traditional Choral” music. But how many “youth” Masses emphasize traditional choral music? How many LifeTeen Masses emphasize traditional choral music?

And if they’re not emphasizing traditional choral music, why aren’t they? Why aren’t they giving the young people what the young people apparently want?
 
I think classical guitar, where the notes are “picked” rather than strummed (don’t know if this is the technical term) is really beautiful. I’ve also heard that it’s quite difficult to learn, so that’s probably why I’ve never encountered classical guitar at mass. If I did, I wouldn’t have a problem with it but I think it would need appropriate classical music. I just can’t imagine classical guitar and “One Bread, One Body” LOL.

Most of the “guitar masses” that I’ve attended are more of a folk-style playing, the type of strumming one would hear around a campfire. I can’t say this is my favorite as it generally invokes the 1960’s Peter, Paul and Mary vibe that a previous poster alluded to. This doesn’t seem to fit the bill for “sacred” music.

I currently attend mass where we have an electric guitar. (And an electric piano. And a drum set. :eek: ) I can’t think of one good reason to have an electric guitar at mass. It seems like once it’s introduced the drums inevitably follow.
Time to look into those Bose headphones which counter any external noise. Just as I found a solution where everyone’s font here looks the same, there is a solution to making everything that hits your eardrum more pallatable too. 🙂
 
Guitars should be banned by the Holy Father from any Mass or religious service. Outside the church it is fine, just not inside the Church!. I prefer Gregorian chant, Gallican chant, or a nice well trained choir.
Hello,

Earlier tonight I was on YouTube looking at Catholic videos and saw this user by the name of FatherJeffrey I believe and he had a video up of an entire Mass lasting around 58 minutes or so and thought that would be great to watch and possibly to put it on a profile I had for a different site to show non-Catholic Christians what a Mass truly was like. What I found when I clicked on this video just deeply disturbed me. It started off with a band playing their guitars and seemed like a Protestant “worship service” that was very familiar to me from my Protestant days. I really hope that this isn’t a growing trend. Is this something that is becoming more popular? Does the church have any official position on this type of Mass? It has truly appalled me and, at the same time, made me so thankful that the church I attend isn’t like that one whatsoever. God bless you all and, in advance, I appreciate all replies very much.

Curtis
 
Exactly why the Organ and Chant should always have “Pride of Place,” at every Latin Rite liturgy in the world.

My two cents. Now it’s time to duck and cover…
This was long so I didn’t quote the whole thing. I can’t say we always agree but…I’m with ya on this one! :rolleyes:
 
These questions are part of a broader issue, at least for me. Can the thinking man, the artist, the theologian, the historian, etc. be fully involved in the life of Christianity? Or is our religion inseparably linked to the banal, simplistic, overly-democratized and aesthetically trite patterns of our secular culture? I firmly believe that if people falling into the categories above are not won over to our Catholic cause, we won’t see a renewal anytime soon. It’s these same exact people who are currently fueling the secular attacks on our faith, in art, in philosophy, etc. The faith has to have a widespread high culture element if western renewal is in the future.

Exactly why the Organ and Chant should always have “Pride of Place,” at every Latin Rite liturgy in the world.

My two cents. Now it’s time to duck and cover…
Lots of good stuff, but I especially wanted to single out this question. I think it’s critical to understand where we have ended up, and where we need to go.

I have asked your question in a slightly different way. Does a person seek a faith that is bigger than himself, or a faith that is smaller than himself? I hope the answer is self-evident.

The Catholic faith is certainly bigger than me or than any person. But the vision of that faith that the average person walking into the average church will get is very likely to be a vision that is (pick one or more: small, sad, pathetic, embarassing, lame, juvenile, trivial, trite, banal). The average person in the average Catholic church is not very likely to be swept up to heaven by the liturgy found in that church. Quite a few of them, rather, will consider the liturgies they experience to be an ongoing burden in their quest to worship God. And those are just the ones who have stuck around. And so many of the best musicians haven’t stuck around, as any good musician knows.
 
I’m just thankful that I’m not forced, (due to lack of options), to attend any Masses like the one in the video.
 
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