Gun Control

[hxcCatholic413]

I’m going to have to side with Tig and Sir Knight on this one.

To tell you the truth I don’t currently own a firearm (but have fired a few in practice due to my current occupation) but carry a knife or other items for self defense. I won’t worry much if I forget that knife on my outings (which seems to happen often) or remember to bring it, nor do I expect the worse to happen or suspect every person to have intention of harming me.

There is a chance of things happening that requires the use of self defense or reasoning/preaching to preserve ones life and those under my charge; regardless if I’m armed or not I will defend myself or mitigate the damage somehow if it’s too risky without too much damage being done.

Like you said though, there are ways to avoid danger or work your way out of it without being armed at all, like situational awareness, negotiation, situational awareness, running/screaming/draw attention, situational awareness, stay out in well lit areas with some people around, and situational awareness.

I guess that’s being prudent, that and it’s easier to hunt with a rifle or handgun than, say, a bow and arrow. (The truth is, though I support the NRA and conceiled carry, I don’t want a fire arm for self defense but one for hunting).

Well, I typed what I typed; I’m sorry for disagreeing.

ddarko answered this thread entirely in post #174^^^^^ he wrote “The problem with the gun is actually in the intention and thought process for owning it. Implicitly, one who owns a gun has divided society as ‘these are my brothers and sisters’ and ‘these are not’. That contradicts Christianity at its core. We are called to LOVE all as our brothers and sisters”. AND Post #173 " The problem of carrying a gun is because of its sinful intention. i.e. judgmental of others and that contradicts being a loving person"

 

[Sir_Knight]

ddarko answered this thread entirely in post #174^^^^^ he wrote “The problem with the gun is actually in the intention and thought process for owning it. Implicitly, one who owns a gun has divided society as ‘these are my brothers and sisters’ and ‘these are not’. That contradicts Christianity at its core. We are called to LOVE all as our brothers and sisters”. AND Post #173 " The problem of carrying a gun is because of its sinful intention. i.e. judgmental of others and that contradicts being a loving person"

Interesting that those in authority who carry a gun can divide society into brothers & sister and those who are not but that right is denied to all others. And none of that explains why Jesus commanded those who did not have a weapon to sell their cloak, if they had to, and purchase one.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

**PEOPLE ASK WHY? Why I Carry a Gun: **

I don’t carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don’t carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the
world.

I don’t carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m angry.
I carry a gun so that I don’t have to spend the rest of my life hating
myself for failing to be prepared.

I don’t carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and
not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don’t carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the
ones they love.

I don’t carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am
inadequate.

I don’t carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful
to me.

Police Protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves.

Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the
crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I’m too young to die and too old to
take a butt whoopin’.

Oh two more things when I was a child guns help us put meat on the table and kept us free for over two hundred years.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

The Bishops of the United States said in a statement on hand guns:
We believe that effective action must be taken to reverse this rising tide of violence. For this reason, we call for effective and courageous action to control handguns

As a Citizen of the Great State of Texas I have the right to keep and bear arms.

The Texas Constitution
Article 1 – Section 23

Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the legislature shall have the power by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

I am a CHL [Concealed Handgun License] holder in fact I usually carry a .357 magnum revolver to Mass. The Bishops in Texas don’t have a problem with CHL holders carrying to Mass.

NON_CHL holders do the majority of the misuse of firearms in the United States.

As a Texas CHL Holder I must:
Ø HAVE NO FELONY CONVICTIONS—LIFE TIME
Ø NO CLASS A OR B MISDEMEANORS WITHIN THE LAST FIVE YEARS
Ø PASS BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL FINGERPRINT AND BACKGROUND CHECKS
Ø NO DELINQUENT CONDUCT WITHIN THE PAST 10 YEARS
Ø NOT DELINQUENT IN CHILD SUPPORT OR STUDENT LOANS, OR STATE/LOCAL TAXES. [we really don’t care about the feds—Stan]

10 to 15 hours of training done by a qualified instructor certified by the Texas Department of Public Safety [State Police] and must pass 70% firing at the pistol range. We are taught the same instruction that DPS [State Police] law enforcement officers are taught on the use of deadly force.

I carry a firearm everywhere I can legally carry; how is that endangering anyone’s safely?

What the gun grabbers forget is that the devil is alive and well on this earth! There are evil people out there that will soon as kill you as a fly—they don’t care a rats butt about human life.

Hello it’s the 21st century to defend yourself you need a firearm that’s just a fact of life man—wake up!

As a Citizen of the United States and by the Constitution of the United States I have the right to keep and bear arms—Get over it.
**Catechism of the Catholic Church **

As a Catholic I have a GRAVE DUTY to defend myself and anyone that is in danger from a life threatening situation.

Innocent life:
I. RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE
The witness of sacred history
2259 In the account of Abel’s murder by his brother Cain,57 Scripture reveals the presence of anger and envy in man, consequences of original sin, from the beginning of human history. Man has become the enemy of his fellow man. God declares the wickedness of this fratricide: “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.”

2260 The covenant between God and mankind is interwoven with reminders of God’s gift of human life and man’s murderous violence:
For your lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning. . . . Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.

2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.

2320 The murder of a human being is gravely contrary to the dignity of the person and the holiness of the Creator.

2321 The prohibition of murder does not abrogate the right to render an unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. **Legitimate defense is a grave duty for whoever is responsible for the lives of others or the common good. **

I refer you to Luke 22:36-38 where Our Lord commanded His followers to purchase a sword even if they had to sell their cloak to do it. The “sword” (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler’s equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. Pretty much the equivalent of what a gun is today. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.

Let us also not forget that God rejected Saul as King of the Jews for FAILING to use the sword in executing the King of Amalek in 1 Sam 15:10-23 … clearly showing that being a pacifist was NOT pleasing to God and sometimes a sword or a gun is the correct response.

Who in the hell is a bunch of Washington D.C. left-wing politicians to deny my rights under the Texas and United States Constitutions?

 

[ddarko]

**PEOPLE ASK WHY? Why I Carry a Gun: **

I don’t carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don’t carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the
world.

I don’t carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m angry.
I carry a gun so that I don’t have to spend the rest of my life hating
myself for failing to be prepared.

I don’t carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and
not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don’t carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the
ones they love.

I don’t carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am
inadequate.

I don’t carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful
to me.

Police Protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves.

Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the
crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I’m too young to die and too old to
take a butt whoopin’.

Oh two more things when I was a child guns help us put meat on the table and kept us free for over two hundred years.

Matthew 6:27 - Can any of you, however much you worry, add one single cubit to your span of life?

Matthew 6:30 - Now if that is how God clothes the wild flowers growing in the field which are there today and thrown into the furnace tomorrow, will he not much more look after you, you who have so little faith?

Matthew 26:52 - Then Jesus said to him, ‘Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword’.

Romans 12:14 - Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.

Romans 12: 16-19 - Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly; do not claim to be wiser than you are. Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.’

St. Teresa of Avila - “Let nothing trouble you. Let nothing frighten you. Everything passes. God never changes. Patience obtains all. Whoever has God, wants for nothing. God alone is enough.”

God Bless

 

[momor]

I wonder what happens in Texas churches if someone drops something heavy in the vestibule during Mass and makes a really loud noise. Does everyone pull out their guns, chamber a round, and push the women folk to floor?

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

Matthew 6:27 - Can any of you, however much you worry, add one single cubit to your span of life?

Matthew 6:30 - Now if that is how God clothes the wild flowers growing in the field which are there today and thrown into the furnace tomorrow, will he not much more look after you, you who have so little faith?

Matthew 26:52 - Then Jesus said to him, ‘Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword’.

Romans 12:14 - Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.

Romans 12: 16-19 - Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly; do not claim to be wiser than you are. Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.’

St. Teresa of Avila - “Let nothing trouble you. Let nothing frighten you. Everything passes. God never changes. Patience obtains all. Whoever has God, wants for nothing. God alone is enough.”

God Bless

I refer you to Luke 22:36-38 where Our Lord commanded His followers to purchase a sword even if they had to sell their cloak to do it. The “sword” (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler’s equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. Pretty much the equivalent of what a gun is today. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.

Let us also not forget that God rejected Saul as King of the Jews for FAILING to use the sword in executing the King of Amalek in 1 Sam 15:10-23 … clearly showing that being a pacifist was NOT pleasing to God and sometimes a sword or a gun is the correct response.

 

[momor]

I refer you to Luke 22:36-38 where Our Lord commanded His followers to purchase a sword even if they had to sell their cloak to do it. The “sword” (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler’s equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. Pretty much the equivalent of what a gun is today. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.

Let us also not forget that God rejected Saul as King of the Jews for FAILING to use the sword in executing the King of Amalek in 1 Sam 15:10-23 … clearly showing that being a pacifist was NOT pleasing to God and sometimes a sword or a gun is the correct response.

Please read the rest of the NT.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Please read the CCC – which represents the OFFICIAL teaching of the Catholic Church …
**2263 **The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor… The one is intended, the other is not.”

**2264 **Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow: If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful… Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

I wonder what happens in Texas churches if someone drops something heavy in the vestibule during Mass and makes a really loud noise. Does everyone pull out their guns, chamber a round, and push the women folk to floor?

By your post I can see you don’t have a clue about handguns.

Man that’s what you gun control people do you make stuff up.

What if this could of, what if that could of…

You don’t base anything on facts just emotions.

Also typical far left liberal response you have no facts so insult people.

“Well if something drops something in Church every one of those stupid gun carriers are going to start shooting!”

Just confirms what I’ve always said liberals are the most judgmental people that I’ve ever met in my life.

 

[ddarko]

I refer you to Luke 22:36-38 where Our Lord commanded His followers to purchase a sword even if they had to sell their cloak to do it. The “sword” (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler’s equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. Pretty much the equivalent of what a gun is today. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.

Let us also not forget that God rejected Saul as King of the Jews for FAILING to use the sword in executing the King of Amalek in 1 Sam 15:10-23 … clearly showing that being a pacifist was NOT pleasing to God and sometimes a sword or a gun is the correct response.

You do realize that providing me with a counter example TO my counter examples do not disprove them right ? The whole point of the counterexamples were to show that your position is logically flawed.

Let me illustrate. Lets say person X believes that all prime numbers are odd. Now I give him a counterexample. “2 is a Prime number and it is also EVEN”. Now for X to say I am wrong because there are all these prime numbers like “3, 5, 7…” that are Primes but not EVEN is logically invalid.

Similarly, in your case, your theory of Jesus supporting the carrying of sword is invalidated by the passages I provided. What you should then do is try to change your view in such a way that it fits both you have and what I presented. Thats how reason works.

Now don’t make this as me supporting Pacifism. That is a straw-man. The opposite of Handgun possession is NOT Pacifism. I’ve noticed many gun lovers love to attack this straw man all day. Meaningless stuff. I am totally against handgun possession by you and other civilians. NOT those in authority.

Now don’t play me the ‘everyone is equal and therefore if authority can do it, we can to card’. The obvious counter example to that is the Pope. The Pope has authority to declare Dogma and teach without error. You don’t have that authority. So that’s a counterexample to that. Now before you try and give me examples where your position works, read back on what I said about providing counterexamples to counterexamples.

Finally, you might want to go back and re-read those quotes again… see if you can really hold that all Prime numbers are Odd anymore

God Bless

 

[ddarko]

Please read the CCC – which represents the OFFICIAL teaching of the Catholic Church …
2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor… The one is intended, the other is not.”

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow: If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful… Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.

Sir Knight, I’ve answered this in sufficient detail and as I said before, I am not willing to continue this debate with you as per reasons I gave you. So this is not addressed to you.

But I write this so that anyone else who reads this doesn’t get stumped by what you said.

The quotes above are about defending against aggressors. That is PERFECTLY fine. No one is arguing that. People who present these quotes are trying to make it look like the opposite of owning a hand gun is Pacifism. That is FALSE.

The problem with Gun possession is that it is based on the priori suspicion that someone is going to attack me as I walk the streets. Just read some of the posts by the above person and other gun supporters on the forum. They say stuff like

***"Police Protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves.

Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the
crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I’m too young to die and too old to
take a butt whoopin’."***

That is a mistrust in authority AND suspicion of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

Notice that none of them are concerned about fixing the Police system or anything. They’d rather own a gun. Makes you wonder …

So the problem with Gun control is the presupposition and mistrust of brothers and sisters in Christ. It is the division that one makes that ‘these are my loved ones’ and ‘these are not’ that makes it inherently unchristian.

As Christian’s our call is to LOVE EVERYONE as our BROTHERS and SISTERS. This includes the ‘gang-banger’ down the street to the rapist who got released from prison and lives next door. Just as we do not carry a weapon around in our house to defend ourselves against our own brother or sister, we should not be doing such things against our spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ. To do so undermines the true nature of Christ’s very sacrifice. Through his suffering and blood poured out on the cross, we have all becomes brothers and sisters. To be Christian is to live like we accept that truth.

God Bless

P.S. This does not apply to hunting either. People don’t carry a gun concealed as they walk in the mall for hunting. What are they hunting? Humans? So that’s another straw man.
Guns are of course allowed for hunting purposes and can be kept in safe storage at a hunting reserve. Not in concealment as they go for the early morning stroll.

 

[momor]

By your post I can see you don’t have a clue about handguns.

Man that’s what you gun control people do you make stuff up.

What if this could of, what if that could of…

You don’t base anything on facts just emotions.

Also typical far left liberal response you have no facts so insult people.

“Well if something drops something in Church every one of those stupid gun carriers are going to start shooting!”

Just confirms what I’ve always said liberals are the most judgmental people that I’ve ever met in my life.

Well, I’m not a liberal so I guess that shoots down your theory.

Emotionalism? You mean like your emotional, ignore the facts position on that other thread we’ve been on?

 

[tommcguire]

This may help: Catholic Catechism # 2316

The production and sale of arms affect the common good of nations and the international community. Hence public authorities have the right and duty to regulate them. The short-term pursuit of private or collective interests cannot legitimate undertakings that promote violence and conflict among nations and compromise the international juridical order.

This is a statement of principle about the control of weapons, it includes both military and private regulations of weapons.

*For a new perspective read the Book of Job. What did God do to Job? How did Job respond to the destruction of his personal property and family? What lesson can we learn from Job about the use of a gun to protect our property or family? *

 

[hxcCatholic413]

**PEOPLE ASK WHY? Why I Carry a Gun: **

I don’t carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don’t carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the
world.

I don’t carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don’t carry a gun because I’m angry.
I carry a gun so that I don’t have to spend the rest of my life hating
myself for failing to be prepared.

I don’t carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and
not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don’t carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the
ones they love.

I don’t carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am
inadequate.

I don’t carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful
to me.

Police Protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves.

Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the
crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I’m too young to die and too old to
take a butt whoopin’.

Oh two more things when I was a child guns help us put meat on the table and kept us free for over two hundred years.

sounds like a bunch of contradictions^^^^
BTW your logic is the same as: “I don’t personally believe in abortion, but it’s a person’s right to have one”

 

[hxcCatholic413]

By your post I can see you don’t have a clue about handguns.

Man that’s what you gun control people do you make stuff up.

What if this could of, what if that could of…

You don’t base anything on facts just emotions.

Also typical far left liberal response you have no facts so insult people.

“Well if something drops something in Church every one of those stupid gun carriers are going to start shooting!”

Just confirms what I’ve always said liberals are the most judgmental people that I’ve ever met in my life.

sounds to me that it’s the opposite God Bless!

 

[Sir_Knight]

Sir Knight, I’ve answered this in sufficient detail and as I said before, I am not willing to continue this debate with you as per reasons I gave you. So this is not addressed to you.

But I write this so that anyone else who reads this doesn’t get stumped by what you said.

The quotes above are about defending against aggressors. That is PERFECTLY fine. No one is arguing that. People who present these quotes are trying to make it look like the opposite of owning a hand gun is Pacifism. That is FALSE.

The problem with Gun possession is that it is based on the priori suspicion that someone is going to attack me as I walk the streets. Just read some of the posts by the above person and other gun supporters on the forum. They say stuff like

***"Police Protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves.

Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the
crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I’m too young to die and too old to
take a butt whoopin’."***

That is a mistrust in authority AND suspicion of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

Notice that none of them are concerned about fixing the Police system or anything. They’d rather own a gun. Makes you wonder …

So the problem with Gun control is the presupposition and mistrust of brothers and sisters in Christ. It is the division that one makes that ‘these are my loved ones’ and ‘these are not’ that makes it inherently unchristian.

As Christian’s our call is to LOVE EVERYONE as our BROTHERS and SISTERS. This includes the ‘gang-banger’ down the street to the rapist who got released from prison and lives next door. Just as we do not carry a weapon around in our house to defend ourselves against our own brother or sister, we should not be doing such things against our spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ. To do so undermines the true nature of Christ’s very sacrifice. Through his suffering and blood poured out on the cross, we have all becomes brothers and sisters. To be Christian is to live like we accept that truth.

God Bless

P.S. This does not apply to hunting either. People don’t carry a gun concealed as they walk in the mall for hunting. What are they hunting? Humans? So that’s another straw man.
Guns are of course allowed for hunting purposes and can be kept in safe storage at a hunting reserve. Not in concealment as they go for the early morning stroll.

All of this completely ignores the fact that Jesus commanded His followers to obtain swords – which have no other purpose than to be used as weapons.

 

[ddarko]

All of this completely ignores the fact that Jesus commanded His followers to obtain swords – which have no other purpose than to be used as weapons.

You might find Post #188 sheds some light on whats really happening here. Again, this is not to start a discussion with you. Simply thought I should point you in the right direction as to why I “ignored” your favorite Scripture passage.

God Bless

 

[Sir_Knight]

Almost exactly three years and one month ago, a woman got a restraining order against her husband. He had taken up drinking and was becoming abusive toward her and fearful for her safety and that of her children, she obtained a court ordered PFA (Protection From Abuse) Order against him.

Learning of the restraining order against him, he decided to teach his wife a lesson and went to her place of employment. Not finding her there, he grabbed one of the cashiers and began beating her demanding that she tell him where his wife was.

Customers gathered to see what was going on but being a big & muscular man, everybody was afraid to get involved. Everyone except for one elderly man who was licensed to carry a firearm. He went to see what all of the yelling was about and when he got there, he saw the man hit the cashier in the face with a hammer. He immediately drew his gun and ordered the man to drop the hammer.

It is unclear whether the man hear this and decided to ignore it or if he was totally oblivious to it but he swung the hammer over his head to hit her a second time and that is when the man with the gun opened fire. It took three shots to the chest before the man dropped the hammer and collapsed himself.

The man with the gun did not wear a uniform. He wasn’t a police off officer or anything in any type of authority. Just a regular citizen with a gun. When the police arrived, he was not charged with any crime and was permitted to leave.

Shaken up by the experience and feeling guilty that he took a human life, he sought out counseling not only with the priests in his parish but also with the priests in the Bishop’s office in the dioceses where he belonged. None of the priests told him that he committed any sin. Instead, they told him that he did a good and righteous thing by opposing evil and saving the life of an innocent individual. If the guy would have hit her on top of the head with the hammer, he could have killed her or turned her into a vegetable. Because of this man’s actions WITH A GUN, that did not happen. As it is, she was left disfigured for life.

By carrying the gun, the man was able to perform this “good and righteous” deed. Not carrying a gun would have prevented him from performing this “good and righteous” deed. How can doing something (carrying a gun) which contributes to being about to perform a “good and righteous” deed; and not doing this act (not carrying the gun) result in that “good and righteous” deed not being performed, be considered wrong? It can’t!

What about if it was you being attacked by this guy with the hammer? Or, your newly wedded bride? Or, your sister, or daughter or mother? Would you have preferred for someone to dial ‘911’ and wait a few minutes for the police to arrive as your face was pounded with a hammer? Or, would you have performed the man with the gun to have acted in the way that he did? Anyone who picks the former, has a incorrect understanding of the Catholic faith and the message of Christ. Period.

 

[ddarko]

Almost exactly three years and one month ago, a woman got a restraining order against her husband. He had taken up drinking and was becoming abusive toward her and fearful for her safety and that of her children, she obtained a court ordered PFA (Protection From Abuse) Order against him.

Learning of the restraining order against him, he decided to teach his wife a lesson and went to her place of employment. Not finding her there, he grabbed one of the cashiers and began beating her demanding that she tell him where his wife was.

Customers gathered to see what was going on but being a big & muscular man, everybody was afraid to get involved. Everyone except for one elderly man who was licensed to carry a firearm. He went to see what all of the yelling was about and when he got there, he saw the man hit the cashier in the face with a hammer. He immediately drew his gun and ordered the man to drop the hammer.

It is unclear whether the man hear this and decided to ignore it or if he was totally oblivious to it but he swung the hammer over his head to hit her a second time and that is when the man with the gun opened fire. It took three shots to the chest before the man dropped the hammer and collapsed himself.

The man with the gun did not wear a uniform. He wasn’t a police off officer or anything in any type of authority. Just a regular citizen with a gun. When the police arrived, he was not charged with any crime and was permitted to leave.

Shaken up by the experience and feeling guilty that he took a human life, he sought out counseling not only with the priests in his parish but also with the priests in the Bishop’s office in the dioceses where he belonged. None of the priests told him that he committed any sin. Instead, they told him that he did a good and righteous thing by opposing evil and saving the life of an innocent individual. If the guy would have hit her on top of the head with the hammer, he could have killed her or turned her into a vegetable. Because of this man’s actions WITH A GUN, that did not happen. As it is, she was left disfigured for life.

By carrying the gun, the man was able to perform this “good and righteous” deed. Not carrying a gun would have prevented him from performing this “good and righteous” deed. How can doing something (carrying a gun) which contributes to being about to perform a “good and righteous” deed; and not doing this act (not carrying the gun) result in that “good and righteous” deed not being performed, be considered wrong? It can’t!

What about if it was you being attacked by this guy with the hammer? Or, your newly wedded bride? Or, your sister, or daughter or mother? Would you have preferred for someone to dial ‘911’ and wait a few minutes for the police to arrive as your face was pounded with a hammer? Or, would you have performed the man with the gun to have acted in the way that he did? Anyone who picks the former, has a incorrect understanding of the Catholic faith and the message of Christ. Period.

Thats quiet the story and appeals to emotion. But when it comes to ACTUALLY understanding Church position and teachings, we need to stick to REASON.

You can find emotional arguments and examples like the above among those who support gay marriage, abortions, women priests to all sorts of other not very Catholic things.

In our emotional attachments, environment and upbringing, we can sometimes make illogical conclusions. This is why, to arrive at objective conclusions, one needs to stick to REASON.

In my Post #188, #189 and others, I have shown why so far, there has been no REASONABLE arguments from gun supporters to back their position. Only Straw-man attacks and counterexamples to counterexamples (sprinkled in with the occasional mistake of thinking Causation is implied from an observed Correlation).

God Bless