Gun Control

[maryjk]

All I can say is thank God I’m not American.Not on my list of Countries I want to live in.

I always find that statement funny. Especially with no backup, no indication where the individual lives, nothing.

 

[Nacho45]

Psychologically and physically.

Only the very strong can kill easily with their hands; poison and the like require premeditation.

Whereas with a firearm, anybody can end anybody without.a thought.

ICXC NIKA

I would have to disagree with your statement. The means by which a person kills another is not dependent on lack of thought. Murder takes premeditation regardless of the means used even if it is a last minute decision. Opportunity is what is important to the murderer, whether using a gun, a knife (British soldier walking home), a bat, a car, drowning or pushing them off of a cliff on their honeymoon.

The mind makes a decision to murder and then the opportunity is presented. Which tool is used is normally one of the last steps considered, based off of opportunity.

 

[Nacho45]

I’m not particularly worried about children. That’s what parents are for, to protect and train them in a world full of guns, pools, open water, speeding cars, poisons, 120V sockets, etc.

Nor am I particularly worried about suicide. Our bodies die so easily, there would be suicide even if guns were gone forever.

I am mostly concerned about people who die needlessly because their heads occupy the sight line of a madman who armed themself before going mad.

ICXC NIKA

I may have misunderstood what you were saying, but it seems you have contradicted yourself.

 

[Brendan]

Mmm…I don’t think so. I’ve never killed someone, but from what I understand it’s much easier, from a psychological standpoint, to kill someone with a gun.

As opposed to say, setting a pressure cooker bomb in a backpack cooker on a street and walking away. How is that harder psychologically to do?

 

[on_the_hill]

As opposed to say, setting a pressure cooker bomb in a backpack cooker on a street and walking away. How is that harder psychologically to do?

Of course it’s harder to do. A person’s got to be seriously messed up in the head to do that. Do you really think that some schmuck who pulls a gun during a bar fight is on the same psychological level as a mass murderer?

 

[GEddie]

I may have misunderstood what you were saying, but it seems you have contradicted yourself.

Not really.

Try again.

 

[vz71]

Of course it’s harder to do. A person’s got to be seriously messed up in the head to do that. Do you really think that some schmuck who pulls a gun during a bar fight is on the same psychological level as a mass murderer?

I believe that schmuck is on the same level as the same one in the fight that brings a weapon.
Both intend to kill.
The gun makes one no more psychologically ready then any other weapon.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I believe that schmuck is on the same level as the same one in the fight that brings a weapon.
Both intend to kill.
The gun makes one no more psychologically ready then any other weapon.

The psychological aspect would be that a firearm removes one (to a degree) from the actual act. It makes it less personal (as in I’m doing this). Extreme examples of this would be choking a person to death with your hands (most personal) and pushing a button that launches/releases missles/bombs (least personal).

 

[vz71]

The psychological aspect would be that a firearm removes one (to a degree) from the actual act. It makes it less personal (as in I’m doing this). Extreme examples of this would be choking a person to death with your hands (most personal) and pushing a button that launches/releases missles/bombs (least personal).

I see.
So there are people convinced that it is possible to convince yourself that you are not really killing, you are just pulling a trigger.

If this is really the case, I am not as concerned of guns as I am cars.

 

[on_the_hill]

I see.
So there are people convinced that it is possible to convince yourself that you are not really killing, you are just pulling a trigger.

No, it’s easier because it takes so much less thought do to it. It’s not that a person convinces himself to think one way or another.

Yes, more people are killed by automobiles than firearms. In 2012 there were 34,000 people killed by automobiles and in 2011 there were 32,000 killed by firearms. The difference between the two is that the automobile industry is focused on building safer cars, while the gun industry isn’t particularly interested in building safer firearms.

 

[vz71]

Like most tools, guns make it easier to do something.

However, the decision to kill is not going to change because a gun is not available.

We can read it throughout history. Murder was a popular crime before firearms were developed.

 

[Nacho45]

Not really.

Try again.

You aren’t worried about kids, that’s some else’s job, even though they are killed every day. (And you admit it’s the parents job to teach the kids about guns)

You aren’t worried about suicide even though that’s still murder.(because our bodies die anyway)

But you are worried about guns as a tool not being used appropriately because it makes the first two (in your opinion) easier, even though the other ways people die you don’t care about as much, or aren’t worried about.

Seems rather contradictory to me and makes it difficult to respond. Screwdrivers have been used to murder. I remember reading about a woman who attempted to kill her husband with her breasts by suffocating him. Are these intrinsically evil as well?

 

[Nacho45]

No, it’s easier because it takes so much less thought do to it. It’s not that a person convinces himself to think one way or another.

That all depends on who is pulling the trigger. Everyone I know who has done this knows what happens on the other end. Many of them have a hard time dealing with it. It’s not easy from my experience.

 

[livingwordunity]

The irony is when a liberal goes on a shooting rampage, such as with the one who shot Gabrielle Giffords and the latest school shooting, but other liberals blame the conservatives and gun laws.

 

[GEddie]

You aren’t worried about kids, that’s some else’s job, even though they are killed every day. (And you admit it’s the parents job to teach the kids about guns)

You aren’t worried about suicide even though that’s still murder.(because our bodies die anyway)

But you are worried about guns as a tool not being used appropriately because it makes the first two (in your opinion) easier, even though the other ways people die you don’t care about as much, or aren’t worried about.

Seems rather contradictory to me and makes it difficult to respond. Screwdrivers have been used to murder. I remember reading about a woman who attempted to kill her husband with her breasts by suffocating him. Are these intrinsically evil as well?

No.

I am worried about average human beings, neither children nor suicides, who will die because of the actions of lunatics in a nation that has made an idolatry of being armed. Full stop.

ICXC NIKA

 

[on_the_hill]

That all depends on who is pulling the trigger. Everyone I know who has done this knows what happens on the other end. Many of them have a hard time dealing with it. It’s not easy from my experience.

I won’t disagree with that. But it’s not the feelings that come afterward or what is learned through experience that I’m taking about. It’s the rash, spur of the moment trigger pull.

At any rate, I’m not anti-gun, and most of the time I couldn’t care less one way or another. It’s the pro-gun rhetoric that rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Nacho45]

No.

I am worried about average human beings, neither children nor suicides, who will die because of the actions of lunatics in a nation that has made an idolatry of being armed. Full stop.

ICXC NIKA

I still do not understand and that’s okay, it happens.

My view is as long as evil people have access to guns, good people should as well, to protect themselves and each other. I will always have weapons available to protect my loved ones. I have always been around them, been very well trained in their use, and have taught my children the same. I have never even had an negligent discharge, much less murdered anyone. I also know when NOT to use a weapon (gun or otherwise). My wife does not like guns, but has learned how to properly use them in the event she must. I even have a funny story I could share, but not on the public area. There are a lot of people like me in the world. Until bad folks no longer have access to tools which they can use to murder others, I will maintain my idolatry of being armed.

 

[GEddie]

I still do not understand and that’s okay, it happens.

My view is as long as evil people have access to guns, good people should as well, to protect themselves and each other. I will always have weapons available to protect my loved ones. I have always been around them, been very well trained in their use, and have taught my children the same. I have never even had an negligent discharge, much less murdered anyone. I also know when NOT to use a weapon (gun or otherwise). My wife does not like guns, but has learned how to properly use them in the event she must. I even have a funny story I could share, but not on the public area. There are a lot of people like me in the world. Until bad folks no longer have access to tools which they can use to murder others, I will maintain my idolatry of being armed.

Oops. I meant no offense to anybody.

The idolatry I referred to is that of the general society, not people within it.

I apologize for any offense given. But I stand by my position.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Nacho45]

-]/-]

Oops. I meant no offense to anybody.

The idolatry I referred to is that of the general society, not people within it.

I apologize for any offense given. But I stand by my position.

ICXC NIKA

None taken. I was only trying to better understand your point of view.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

There are no ultimate winners is this argument …