Gun ownership in this day and age

[Dracarys]

As I said to prayerrider, the purpose of the law is not to protect you from yourself. It is to protect others from you.

Are you worried your gun owning neighbor is going to force his way into your house to shoot you? What is the basis for your groundless paranoia?

Then I don’t know why you brought up swimming pools in a debate about the benefits vs the costs of gun ownership.

I didn’t. I brought it up in a debate about mandatory training.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

As I said to prayerrider, the purpose of the law is not to protect you from yourself. It is to protect others from you.

Are you worried your gun owning neighbor is going to force his way into your house to shoot you?

From the accidents I cited, it is obvious what sort of negligence I am worried about.

Then I don’t know why you brought up swimming pools in a debate about the benefits vs the costs of gun ownership.

I didn’t. I brought it up in a debate about mandatory training.

It was about mandatory training in gun safety, which you say is “the answer”, but refuse to require it of all gun owners. That fact that swimming pools are dangerous does not support your refusal to require gun safety training.

 

[Dracarys]

No, that counts as a sav

So a lifeguard saving a live person counts as a save, but a person using a firearm to make a would be car jacker, burglar, rapist, murderer, road rager etc. leave the scene is not a save. Please explain.

 

[Dracarys]

From the accidents I cited, it is obvious what sort of negligence I am worried about.

Well you said it’s to protect others from YOU. So are you afraid of your gun owning neighbor, other people in your house? Who?

 

[Dracarys]

It was about mandatory training in gun safety, which you say is “the answer”, but refuse to require it of all gun owners. That fact that swimming pools are dangerous does not support your refusal to require gun safety training.

But you originally accused me of using this as an arguement about cost/benefit. So I guess your the strawman maker now…huh?

It is delusional to think government can do anything right. This country is running a $23 trillion debt that exceeds our GDP. No federal mandated training is something I trust.

 

[Pattylt]

No federal mandated training is something I trust.

I disagree here. I don’t want the government to run the training programs but I do want them to mandate a minimum level of required safety training. A basic level use and safety training should be rather easy to implement and I think many small business entrepreneurs would be interested as well as current shooting range owners. A certification good for an established period of time (say 10 years) would help assure every legal purchase has a basic level of knowledge.

Yes, criminals would ignore it, they already ignore laws. I support legal gun ownership but I’d like a bit more security that my neighbor will know the laws as well as the capabilities of his gun, including the fact that the walls in his house won’t stop bullets from entering my house.

I agree that most gun owners are already knowledgeable about safety and the abilities of his/her gun. I also know some don’t and if it gets the anti gun folks to settle down a bit AND create some job opportunities, it’s a win win.

 

[prayerrider]

I don’t think anything will really appease the anti-gun folks except total disarmament of the American people. Since that ain’t gonna happen, they can go on wringing their hands and whining and accusing and regurgitating nonsense. Who cares? I’ll ignore them.

 

[Dracarys]

disagree here. I don’t want the government to run the training programs but I do want them to mandate a minimum level of required safety training.

Ok, that us probably inevitable, but a basic course telling you to “always keep guns out of reach of children”, “alcohol and firearms don’t mix”, etc is preaching to the quire. If anything such courses often give bad advice. Leaving your gun unloaded is stupid. When bad guys crash your door they don’t give warning. I think these lawyer concocted government mandated courses will do more harm than good.

 

[Dracarys]

they can go on wringing their hands and whining and accusing and regurgitating nonsense. Who cares? I’ll ignore them.

Problem is these idiots vote. So many of them are just plain ignorant and afraid of guns.

 

[Pattylt]

I agree with you here but I am still in favor of mandating a basic certification of the use, safety and laws concerning owning a gun. I don’t think it’s too much to ask. I think it’s a really smart thing to do regardless of anti gun folks.

Gun ownership is a serious responsibility and I wouldn’t let someone cut my hair without training nor medically treat me and I think gun ownership should accept it as well. I know many won’t agree with me. I just think they are wrong to feel that way. It would show that they not only have the right to own that gun but they accept responsibility for owning it, too

 

[Dracarys]

Gun ownership is a serious responsibility and I wouldn’t let someone cut my hair without training nor medically treat me and I think gun ownership should accept it as well. I know many won’t agree with m

I just hope if such a thing is mandated that the gun owner will smile and nod his head to the government class (make LeafByNiggle happy) and then go to a REAL knowledgeable instructor to be destupidified from the first class, and then learn the truth.

 

[prayerrider]

Fortunately, they’re mostly urban leftists and they will never see three fourths of the states go along with overturning the 2nd Amendment. Their leftist dystopia will, sadly, remain a fantasy.

 

[pnewton]

How can it be immoral to either own a gun

From the Catechism:

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself.

 

[pnewton]

LeafByNiggle has assured us that because some people commit suicide and some people stupidly make mistakes those of you who saved your life and the lives of your loved ones don’t matter. All of you should be disarmed because LeafByNiggle says you don’t really exist in his world since you are not a recorded statistic as being dead.

He/she did not say either of these things. Understanding both the positive and negative does not mean neither matter.

 

[Dracarys]

How can it be immoral to either own a gun

I didn’t ask for a quote from the catechism. I am asking you to think for yourself. How can the mere act of owning a gun be immoral? Clearly the Catholic Church allows for self defense, so even the act of using that said gun to kill an assaultive offender would not be immoral.

 

[Dracarys]

He/she did not say either of these things. Understanding both the positive and negative does not mean neither matter.

He clearly did say he would not consider my claim that people who have used guns to brandish in order to subdue an attacker should be considered in his cost vs benefit calculations. He said I can not prove that guns used for this purpose would have saved a life. He’s right I can’t prove what may have happened. So using his logic I ask why we have lifeguards and other safety measures.

 

[pnewton]

I don’t think anything will really appease the anti-gun folks except total disarmament of the American people.

Broad statements like this are too simplistic. Most just favor some common sense controls on who has access to some type of firearm.

I didn’t ask for a quote from the catechism. I am asking you to think for yourself.

Asked and answered. You would know this if you would parse your own question and see what you asked. I most definitely am thinking for myself.

 

[Dracarys]

Asked and answered. You would know this if you would parse your own question and see what you asked. I most definitely am thinking for myself.

Yet after several posts I still don’t know why or under what conditions you feel gun ownership is not moral.

 

[pnewton]

There are people do not feel it is right for them to own a gun. If a person goes against their conscience, it is immoral, as it is a violation of their conscience. This is why such decisions are personal and cannot be second-guessed by others. The reasons one may not believe it right are numerous; depression, temptation for children, bad influence on children, contributing to a culture of violence, not wanting to take another’s life, pacifism, etc. Not only one’s beliefs, but one’s home situation, culture, personality, or community might weigh in this individual decision.

 

[prayerrider]

They’re free to feel that way, so long as they keep it to themselves. Best that they don’t own firearms.
It’s a problem when they try to project their personal feelings about firearms onto others.