Step back a minute. Random citizens armed or unarmed are not allowed in school. Maybe an occasional parent coming in to pick up their kid will be in there, but some stranger just randomly walking into school is not welcome. Now places like malls, theaters, etc. do have random strangers. and if something occurs an armed and trained citizen should act to save innocents. Is that more clear?
I don’t think a random parent should be allowed to carry a gun into a school either. The only guns in schools should be carried by personnel who are specifically authorized and trained to do so, whether that be a hired guard or a school principal or the gym teacher. But not some parent who I know nothing about other than the fact that he has a kid at that school.LeafByNiggle:
Step back a minute. Random citizens armed or unarmed are not allowed in school. Maybe an occasional parent coming in to pick up their kid will be in there, but some stranger just randomly walking into school is not welcome.
You are asking a different question again from the one I was addressing. You are asking that if someone is present and armed, he should act to save lives by using his gun in an emergency. That I agree with. But the question of whether that armed person should have been allowed into the mall in the first place is another question that might reasonably be answered as “no.” Maybe “yes” if that person has been verified has having special training. But a person who just filled out the necessary paperwork to get a CC permit may not have that training, and I would not want such a person walking around into a dense gathering of people where he could do great harm.
Look at the profiles of school active shooters. They have a long list of mental problems. I would trust a concerned parent who has qualified for a concealed carry permit. Why not? Again, why do you have this fear? Every time concealed carry permits have been made legal the leftist gun grabbers predict there will be blood in the streets and it will be like the wild west. HELLO, IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. Do you think a random parent coming to pick up their kid because he is ill is going to shoot you? Where is your fear coming from?
I have told you this many times. If they are carrying a concealed weapon THEY HAVE HAD REQUIRED TRAINING. You can’t get a permit without it. What part of that dont you get? Actually EVERY person I know who has a concealed carry permit wants to advance their skills, so they take additional training and they spend time at the range. Stop equating lawfully armed citizens with terrorist and psycho killers. Most active shooters acquired their firearms by illegally stealing them from legal gun owners. Legal gun owners and concealed permit holders are your friend not foe.
You posted two articles stating a rise in crime and assault, both of which are using stats pulled from the Office of National Statistics. When I gave you the direct link and numbers from that SAME Office of National Statistics source, you dismissed them because you claimed they were ‘easily manipulated by administrators who want to show they have decreased crime’. You realise that is you trashing your own sources, right?
Yes, your mythical source that has zero collaborating evidence. How very convincing._Ruby:
So with absolutely no evidence you are calling me a liar. My source is a real living detective currently living in London. The evidence of your cursing and other rude behavior is up the post. Apparently even the CA moderator was shocked enough to remove your foul mouth language as evidenced by your direct quote below:
"My sister has been in the Metropolitan Police force for a long, long time. The claim they are ‘secretly armed’ with guns is quote ‘‘so stupid, only a complete (profanity removed) idiot would believe it’’
Your credibility is zero as far as I am concerned. I will no longer respond to your diatribe.
Training requirements for CC vary from state to state. Many states require no training at all. It will be interesting to see how you rationalize/walk-back this one!
My state offers a very comprehensive course. I suspect no training would meet your criteria as you even asked me for a “guarantee” you would never be a victim of a shooter. Your expectations are irrational and impossible. You can always lobby your legislator for better training, although I doubt any effort they make will satisfy you.
According to the article I posted gun crime is up 45%. Knife crime is up even more. These are stats reflecting citizen against citizen. Will your “statistics” make you feel better when these gun and knife wielding citizens turn them on you sister? You are deluding yourself.
No one disputes knife crime has gone up, the raw data shows that the number of crimes using a knife were still only 0.4% of the total. Knife crime has gone up and it is STILL only 0.4% of all crimes committed.
Dracarys:
I hope that gives you comfort when an officer is stabbed or shot. It is only a matter of time. I know how these things work. An officer who has a knife pulled on him is encouraged to not charge felonious assault. Instead the prosecutor charges resisting and obstructing. The stats you rely on so heavily are subject to manipulation. i would not rely on anything you are quoting._Ruby:
Do you read your own sources? From the BBC report you posted:
Your only basis for thinking these stats were ‘doctored’ is because they don’t agree with you. Again, do you think the Lead of the police firearms dept is anti gun and doctoring the results? The head of the Met has been actively working to increase the numbers of officers in their firearms branches and given the green light for them to assist in high risk areas. Do you think she is anti gun and part of some big cover up?
Stubbornly opposed? Do you mean to say ‘taking the word of officers on the beat and actual crime stats’? Remember that whole separating the facts from your feelings thing we touched upon? The fact that real life not matching up with your thoughts doesn’t mean its all an agenda against you/guns.
Just as I thought. You are unwilling to admit you were wrong when you said if someone has a concealed carry permit the have received training, even when it is obvious that your statement is false. Come on now. Be a man and own up to your mistake.
_Ruby:
From the very article you posted.pnewton:
That is just a dumb conclusion drawn from data that shows a distinct danger.
I am done tolerating your insults, btw. I prefer those who can dialogue, not belittle.
My rule on dealing with statistics is to understand their limitations. The can be argued with, like in cases where correlation implies causation, or where the sampling is selective. However, such criticism involves logic, where the reason is specified, or a larger sampling used to show the limitation of the statistic. Of course an anecdote about someone who knows something is no more logical than just denying the facts.
Our state requires, ready for it? Nothing. No actual training.
You’ve committed yet another straw man argument. I said those having permits in MY state receive very extensive training. I don’t know what they do in your state, but I suspect most states do have required training. However good the training classes in your state are I think you will never be satisfied.
Your looking at crime as a whole. I am focusing on attacks on police officers which clearly is on the rise.
www.telegraph.co.uk
You are. I have already quoted you. You even wrote “profanity removed” when you edited your own post. The original post contained swear words with asterisks in place of some letters. The meaning was clear. Do you not remember this? Go up thread and review your own post.
The point is, not all states require training.
And my point remains that gun owners will seek the training on their own. We as firearm enthusiast like training. We like going to the range. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy than by all means lobby your state reps to require training for CCW holders.