Gun Totting Catholic? Disagree with The Church on Gun Control

[benjohnson]

Of course the rest of the world is all wrong and you’re right, and your super-duper low crime rates just prove it brilliantly

Respectfully, American gun ownership is not about personal protection - it’s about preventing government tyranny.

While more arguably more civilized nations across the globe disarmed their populations and killed their own citizens by the millions, we haven’t had that problem.

…

Food for thought: The only people Americans kill by the millions are our unborn - perhaps because they’re defenseless.

 

[reconman]

but nowadays the police are a phone call away. the streets would be a far more safe and peaceful place if maniacs couldnt get their hands on firearms so easily.

I wonder how many corpses with a chalk line drawn around them by the police after the crime, took comfort in the fact that the police were just “a phone call away.”

 

[Moore11]

Of course the rest of the world is all wrong and you’re right, and your super-duper low crime rates just prove it brilliantly
.

Ironically the only place I’ve ever been mugged was in europe…

Thats right keep bashing america and our guns and big cars. We are used to it.

 

[Moore11]

I’m sorry, but you gun-toting American zealots have always sounded more than a little irrational to just about the entire rest of the planet. Including all the countries out there that have every reason the US could possibly have, and more, to be vigorously in favour of arming their citizenry to the teeth, but don’t do so, and still have lower rates of violent crime.

Of course the rest of the world is all wrong and you’re right, and your super-duper low crime rates just prove it brilliantly

I’ll tell you who you remind me of. You know those suburban mothers who buy huge great big beasty SUVs to tote their children around in?

And how many of them say ‘oh, they’re so much safer than smaller cars.’

‘No they’re not’, you tell them. ‘In an accident you’re actually more likely to roll over, for example, because they’re top heavy’.

‘But but but … everyone knows they’re safer’.

‘No they’re not’, you tell them. "There is actually no evidence that you or your children will in any way be better off in an accident in one of those things than in a solidly-built smaller car’.

At which point they put their fingers in their ears and go ‘la la la, I’m not listening.’ The fact that they FEEL safer is what matters to them, so much so that they don’t care about the reality of whether those cars are actually more likely to let them survive an accident.

That is the attitude I’m feeling from you guys (exaggerated for effect of course). Never mind that there are probably plenty of things out there that you could learn from other countries that could allow you to drastically improve your crime rates and STILL feasibly and safely restrict gun ownership at least a little. That sounds too much like real useful work that could achieve long-term results for your politicians and law enforcers to be interested.

Far easier to have heat-packing cop-wannabe civilians like George Zimmerman to try to scare away the criminals for them. And then they can cop the blame when things go belly-up, as they too frequently do when too many of them are on the streets with too many guns.

I think this whole post is uncharitable and probably just emotional. But in my opinion it is out of line. Lets all take a breath here and think about what we are typing.

 

[reconman]

Thats right keep bashing america and our guns and big cars. We are used to it.

And the fact that we are leading the international war against terrorism with our horrible disgusting guns.

 

[Moore11]

This is too charged for me. I am going to do the smart thing and unsubscribe.

 

[LilyM]

Yes exactly. In the USA we have rights the rest of the world does not. Not the least of which is the right to own firearms. Our rights were endowed by our Creator. Not a bunch of socialist zealots.

Get over it

You’re right, no-one’s begging me to move to the US. And equally no-one is begging you to stay in such an awfully unsafe crime-ridden place either. I’d certainly move if it’s as awful as you’re making it sound.

Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness may have been rights granted by our Creator. The right to bear arms was pure invention of the American government - many of whom didn’t and don’t believe in a creator at all. Get over yourself.

Respectfully, American gun ownership is not about personal protection - it’s about preventing government tyranny.

While more arguably more civilized nations across the globe disarmed their populations and killed their own citizens by the millions, we haven’t had that problem.

…

Food for thought: The only people Americans kill by the millions are our unborn - perhaps because they’re defenseless.

Oh ok, so no Americans were killed in that little Civil War thingy you had then - and your government played no part on one side or 'tother of that conflict? Glad that’s sorted - but a whole lot of history books will have to be rewritten now.

As for preventing government tyranny - from where I stand it’s not working terribly well for you at all on that score either is it?

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Because most of the Bishops are liberals.

I pay zero attention to the USCCB on political issues.

They are enthusiastic supporters of illegal immigration, they were all in favor of obamacare until the contraception issue arose, and most of them are fans of a punishing, unjust income tax system, in addition to gun control.

The USCCB is big on government control and holds a rather dim view of personal liberty.

You are entitled your opinion but mind your place. Part of being Catholic is obedience. Christ would stand with His Bishops on these issues I guarantee that much. You need to take an examination of conscience friend. You are putting the “american” in you before the Catholic in you. And that’s dangerous. The Bishops stance on “illegal immigration” is the correct one. Charity and social justice. Do you care nothing for the people who starve and die of heat strokes trying to get here? All because they come illegally? Because they try to flee the cities where they might be kidnapped from the street just because they are there? End up decapitated in a ditch or forced to run drugs for a cartel with their family’s life at stake if they fail or refuse? Don’t be so quick to condemn that which you know nothing of. And part of the reason why the political right is such a joke (the left being the bigger joke by leaps and bounds) is how much of a big johnson everyone gets over guns. Look at europe. Insanely tight gun controls. While they still have violent crime like anywhere else their gun crimes are non existant compared to america. And even if you compare their violent crimes to ours it’s laughable (only from a statistical standpoint). Is owning a gun a bad thing? Of course not. I was in the army for four years and have an appreciation for guns. Do I feel civilians should carry them? Absolutely not! It does more harm than good. Anyone that feels they need a gun to protect themselves 1) doesn’t have enough faith in Christ to protect them and 2) is paranoid. And worse still are people like my buddy who carries a gun on his person at all times (its still illegal in illinois anyways) and does so anyways, not to protect himself but to protect “others”. He takes it upon himself to be armed at all times just in case he can break up a rape or some other crazy never going to happen occurrence. We have law enforcement. They have a hard job and the vast vast majority of them do it well. No american outside of law enforcement and select security positions has any business carrying a gun. If they were ever in a situation where they used it then Christ have mercy on their soul.

 

[reconman]

Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness may have been rights granted by our Creator. The right to bear arms was pure invention of the American government - many of whom didn’t and don’t believe in a creator at all. Get over yourself.

Wrong, it’s in the original bill of rights. No invention by anyone. Like I said , get over it.

 

[LilyM]

Ironically the only place I’ve ever been mugged was in europe…

Thats right keep bashing america and our guns and big cars. We are used to it.

I’m happy to say I’ve never been mugged anywhere, not Europe, the US, Asia, the Pacific or anywhere else.

I’m not bashing - and the big cars are just as much a problem in my country, trust me.

If you want guns and big cars have at 'em. Just don’t hide behind the at least somewhat dubious proposition that they make you safer is all.

 

[benjohnson]

As for preventing government tyranny - from where I stand it’s not working terribly well for you at all on that score either is it?

The next federal election is in November, and the’re absolutely no indication that it will will be anything but a free and fair election.

I think you you would be more persuasive by arguing with facts rather than hyperbole.

 

[bearer]

Do I feel civilians should carry them? Absolutely not! It does more harm than good. Anyone that feels they need a gun to protect themselves 1) doesn’t have enough faith in Christ to protect them and 2) is paranoid. And worse still are people like my buddy who carries a gun on his person at all times (its still illegal in illinois anyways) and does so anyways, not to protect himself but to protect “others”. He takes it upon himself to be armed at all times just in case he can break up a rape or some other crazy never going to happen occurrence. We have law enforcement. They have a hard job and the vast vast majority of them do it well. No american outside of law enforcement and select security positions has any business carrying a gun. If they were ever in a situation where they used it then Christ have mercy on their soul.

That’s fine for you to say, SP, but armed civilians prevent murder, rape, and other violent crimes every day in this country. Those events typically aren’t widely reported outside of local news circles, but you can read about them if you search. There was a website called The Armed Citizen that tracked local reports of defensive gun use, but the webmaster has stopped publishing them, and only archives remain. The NRA has an Armed Citizen column in its monthly magazines, but you pretty much need to be a member to obtain copies directly.

I feel for the residents of Illinois since that’s the only state in the union that does not allow concealed carry under any circumstance, but I couldn’t recommend breaking the law. Still, I wouldn’t equate concern with paranoia. Not all concealed carriers are alike, and paranoia as a mental condition is rare overall. Fact is, there are viable threats out there, and at best the police will get there, if you have the chance to call, in a few minutes. It might only takes a few seconds for some punk to kill you. Nothing sends chills up your spine like hearing the recording of a 911 call with someone begging for help, and a few seconds later the sound of gunshots ringing out followed by the phone hitting the ground.

 

[LilyM]

The next federal election is in November, and the’re absolutely no indication that it will will be anything but a free and fair election.

I think you you would be more persuasive by arguing with facts rather than hyperbole.

A free and fair election of a (likely thus far) President who is determined to kill off yet more of his future citizens by insisting employers pay for contraception for their employees, even when it conflicts with their religious views? Thus trampling on your alleged constitutional religious freedoms?

A President who has shown no compunction in sending American forces into the territory of another sovereign country (Pakistan) to take out Bin Laden, without even the common decency to inform the Pakistani government of what he was doing? Who by this has shown that he will stoop to almost nothing to do what he wants? And so will probably not hesitate to use just about any means, fair or foul, to have his scheme for employer-funded contraception implemented?

Just for starters? No, no tyranny there.

 

[reconman]

You are entitled your opinion but mind your place. Part of being Catholic is obedience.

I have absolutely no obligation to agree with or obey anything the USCCB says outside of matters that pertain directly to my faith.

Christ would stand with His Bishops on these issues I guarantee that much.

Really? And how might you “guarantee” that?

You need to take an examination of conscience friend. You are putting the “american” in you before the Catholic in you. And that’s dangerous. The Bishops stance on “illegal immigration” is the correct one.

Now you’re making political statements too. Must I obey these also?

Charity and social justice. Do you care nothing for the people who starve and die of heat strokes trying to get here? All because they come illegally? Because they try to flee the cities where they might be kidnapped from the street just because they are there? End up decapitated in a ditch or forced to run drugs for a cartel with their family’s life at stake if they fail or refuse?

Don’t make me laugh. The vast majority of illegals come here from south of the border, and they come here for one reason. Money.

Don’t be so quick to condemn that which you know nothing of.

I know a great deal about this. I’ve been in the construction industry my whole life. I’ve seen jobs lost by citizens to illegals who artificially lower the wage scale, refuse to assimilate, overburden the health care and social systems and have no qualms whatsoever about doing so.

Your naive fairytale notion about this issue is just that. A fairytale.

 

[benjohnson]

Wrong, it’s in the original bill of rights. No invention by anyone. Like I said , get over it.

The framers of the constitution viewed those rights as natural and God-given. There was an argument against writing the bill of rights, because that those rights were so obvious that there was no need to numerate them. Thankfully prudence prevailed.

…

Another applicable biblical quote about this issue reminds us of our duty to protect not only our brothers, but ourselves.

Nehemiah 4 17 Those who were rebuilding the wall and those who carried burdens took their load with one hand doing the work and the other holding a weapon. 18 As for the builders, each wore his sword girded at his side as he built, while the trumpeter stood near me. … 21 So we carried on the work with half of them holding spears from dawn until the stars appeared. … 23 So neither I, my brothers, my servants, nor the men of the guard who followed me, none of us removed our clothes, each took his weapon even to the water.

 

[someperson555]

I wonder how many corpses with a chalk line drawn around them by the police after the crime, took comfort in the fact that the police were just “a phone call away.”

they were too busy fighting their turf wars to call the police. i am willing to bet that the majority of people who die from gun shot wounds were probably doing something illegal to begin with. the city next to mine actually has a problem with innocent bystanders being hit by stray bullets. most of the direct casualties from guns are gang members though. imagine a world where cho seung hui or the colombine kids would have not been able to obtain weapons…

 

[benjohnson]

Charity and social justice.

Christ commands us to love and help the poor.

Christ did not command us to setup a confiscatory tax system and a large bureaucratic government to funnel money to wealthy political patrons while small portion of the proceeds go to the poor .

 

[Zooey]

Righteous!

shaw:

Respectfully, American gun ownership is not about personal protection - it’s about preventing government tyranny.

While more arguably more civilized nations across the globe disarmed their populations and killed their own citizens by the millions, we haven’t had that problem.

http://mazeguy.net/happy/yes.gif:thumbsup:

…

Food for thought: The only people Americans kill by the millions are our unborn - perhaps because they’re defenseless.

:sad_yes::byzsoc:

 

[LilyM]

That’s fine for you to say, SP, but armed civilians prevent murder, rape, and other violent crimes every day in this country.

Funny. In most countries police do so. And in not a few they do a better job at it than your police and armed civilians combined.

 

[LilyM]

The framers of the constitution viewed those rights as natural and God-given. There was an argument against writing the bill of rights, because that those rights were so obvious that there was no need to numerate them. Thankfully prudence prevailed.

…

Another applicable biblical quote about this issue reminds us of our duty to protect not only our brothers, but ourselves.

Nehemiah 4 17 Those who were rebuilding the wall and those who carried burdens took their load with one hand doing the work and the other holding a weapon. 18 As for the builders, each wore his sword girded at his side as he built, while the trumpeter stood near me. … 21 So we carried on the work with half of them holding spears from dawn until the stars appeared. … 23 So neither I, my brothers, my servants, nor the men of the guard who followed me, none of us removed our clothes, each took his weapon even to the water.

They did so because there was no such thing as a police force in those days, for starters. And it seems to have been only certain citizens (those doing the more dangerous work that left them more vulnerable to attack perhaps?) who were armed, rather than all and sundry.