Gun use can be morally necessary

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listen to those that know
“We’re not gonna get there, police aren’t gonna get there to stop it, it’s going to have to be stopped by somebody inside that church,” Chitwood said. “History has taught us, it’s all about the body count and it’s all about a soft target, and that’s why they attack schools and churches because most people are never armed there.”
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www.fox35orlando.com

Volusia County sheriff encouraging church members to arm themselves

Volusia County Sheriff Mike Chitwood wants potential attackers to know that if they ambush a church in his county, expect the congregation to shoot back.
www.fox35orlando.com www.fox35orlando.com
 
Sometimes it is necessary to kill. Hopefully it never actually comes to that, but in real life it is sometimes necessary. Hitler needed to be killed. Stalin and mao should have both been killed. And there are times when someone has to kill another person to defend themselves or their family.
 
Hitler is a very extreme example and hardly equal to a home invasion. And Stalin was the US’s ally. The Nazis wanted to kill Stalin. And why did you default to communist leaders? What about all the evil far right leaders in history?

Violence in the name of self defense should only be used in the most of extreme circumstances. And only then if no other alternative exists.
 
Stalin killed 10’s of millions of people. I don’t care whose ally he was. He was evil, and he should have died long before he did. Millions of people wouldn’t have been murdered then. There is no difference between hitler and someone else who needs to be killed. If it is justifiable on the level of hitler, it is also justifiable in the level of a home invasion. It just as justifiable to kill a man to prevent him from killing one man as it is to kill his five million and first man.

I used the three worst examples of murderers. If you have a problem with that selection that is a problem with you. Between them they killed 100 to 200 million people. Maybe you should rethink your position if you have qualms with them being demonized.
 
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I have used mine to punch holes in paper and dent steel. I will be quite happy if that’s all I ever do with my guns, and they would not be broken.

Not everyone who is shot is killed as a result. If they cease to be a threat to me or my children and still live, then I cannot continue to shoot them, either morally or legally.
 
What about Mussolini or Putin or the all the apartheid South African leaders or Jean Marie le Pen or Andrew Jackson or Jefferson Davis? Why did you default to communists and complete glaze over all of the evil far right winger leaders?

I have no problem with demonizing Stalin and Mao, but you seem to only think they are evil and not all the right wing evil leaders.

I am against killing at all for any reason and killing in self defense should only be used in the most extreme of extreme circumstances and only then because literally all other possible alternatives have already been tried.
 
Why are using a gun to put dents in things?

And would you exhaust all non-violent alternatives before resorting to shooting another human being? Or would you shoot first and justify later?
 
I am referring to steel targets. (It’s a lot of fun).

I do not go looking for trouble. I am aware of what the circumstances are under which I can legally and morally fire my gun.
 
None of them compare to the three I mentioned. You are just showing that you want to make this into a right vs left issue. Hitler, Stalin and mao killed more than anyone else in history. They are examples. If you want to come up with your own examples go ahead.

If you are ever threatened then you can handle it how you see fit. But I have a feeling if you were presented with killing hitler or letting him kill another million you’d try to negotiate with him until his body count reach ten million. Then you’d try a new negotiation tactic. Last resort sounds like never.
 
That wasn’t clear. And shooting for fun doesn’t seem very Catholic to me. Even simulated killing is an abomination.

Do you support “Make My Day” laws?
 
Shooting a paper target is now a sin? You have just demonized every police officer and every member of the military.
 
They most certainly compare. Jefferson David started the most deadly war ever fought on US soil and all to protect the institution of owning black people as slaves.

Andrew Jackson oversaw the genocide of half the Cherokee population and forced them to walk thousands of miles away from their homes in the middle of winter.

The South African apartheid leaders ruled for 45 years and oversaw the systematic oppression of non-white people causing millions of deaths from famine and disease.

Jean Marine le Pen was a nazi terrorist who openly denied the holocaust and promoted violence against anyone who disagreed with him.

Putin is currently overseeing the most oppressive large scale government endorsed wave of violence. He’s invaded multiple countries and massacred anyone who he doesn’t like.

It is insulting to prentend like far right leaders aren’t as evil if not more evil than any communist leader.

Killing Hitler is magnitudes different than killing a burglar.

Last resort is the only way to preserve the sanctity of human life.
 
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Exactly. Typical to paint all gun owners as homicidally inclined.
 
I see simulated killing as a sin, yes. People shouldn’t even be prentending to murder.

I don’t support the military or the militarized police in the US. Especially when it’s been decades since there’s been a legal state of war. Maintaining standing armies when no war has been declared are evil. And police shouldn’t be carrying guns anyway.
 
“Simulated killing”? Don’t be absurd.

“Make my day” is a misnomer with respect to castle-doctrine laws or evidence of arguing from bad faith.
 
Why is that absurd? Is it okay to pretend to kill another human being? Or to derive entertainment from pretending to kill?

All I did was ask what your opinion of “Make My Day” laws are. Also, notice that I put the name in quotes, I didn’t invent the term.

Do you believe that one should retreat from violence if they have the ability to do so? Or is it okay to protect property by killing another human being?
 
Melissa said:
Not everyone who is shot is killed as a result. If they cease to be a threat to me or my children and still live, then I cannot continue to shoot them, either morally or legally.
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Actually most gunshot victims survive. Maybe even this perp in Georgia who followed a mother and her children into their crawl space.

www.google.com

Georgia Mom Shoots Home Invader, Hiding With Her Children

A mother of twins has been hailed a hero by her husband after she shot an intruder in their Loganville, Ga., home last Friday afternoon. "She protected the kids. She did what she was supposed to do as a responsible, prepared gun owner," said her husband, Donnie Herman, in an interview with...
www.google.com www.google.com

He didn’t stop or retreat so she emptied the chamber on him. She defended her family. She is a hero!
 
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Most? Do you have the statistics to support this claim?

Did she try to retreat before resorting to killing the intruder? Were all non-violent alternative exhausted before she shot?
 
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Calling it “make my day” is an exercise of bad faith on the part of those who have thus mis-characterized Castle Doctrine laws (or other laws stating that there is no “duty to retreat”).

I would not be defending only my property. A person who is willing to enter a dwelling which is known to be occupied can be presumed to be intent on causing death or grave bodily harm to the residents within that dwelling.

Your arguments appear to be based on a faultily-formed conscience, and not Catholic moral teaching.
 
Melissa said:
A person who is willing to enter a dwelling which is known to be occupied can be presumed to be intent on causing death or grave bodily harm to the residents within that dwelling.
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Tell it, sister! Some perp busts your door in, you can assume the worst, and defend yourself and your family. Good on you!
 
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