H.M.S. Citizen Ship

[allcingi]

Has anybody figured out how to obtain official political status as a Child of God or Freeman on the Land? I don’t like how over half of my time spent working goes to the captain of the Citizen Ship. As a Child of God, I would be able to serve Him better being subjected to the Common Law of the Land as opposed to the Uniform Commercial Code, aka the law of the sea and mammon. I’ve spent most of a year racking my brain over this. If anyone has some real incite on how to get off this boat I would be greatly appreciative. I know it has something to do with being born again. I’m hoping a church official knows what I am talking about since Jesus warned us about this over 2000 years ago.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I’m not really sure what you are talking about here. Where do you live? Are you in the U.S? And when you talk about this:

I don’t like how over half of my time spent working goes to the captain of the Citizen Ship.

Are you talking about taxes? I can assure you that any nation won’t let you take a citizenship status that exempts you from paying taxes. Also remember that Jesus told us to “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”

 

[LindaSK]

I tried to get a grasp on what you were asking. The first thing that came to mind was from Mark 12:
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They came and said to him, “Teacher, we know that you are a truthful man and that you are not concerned with anyone’s opinion. You do not regard a person’s status but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it lawful to pay the census tax to Caesar or not? Should we pay or should we not pay?”
15
Knowing their hypocrisy he said to them, “Why are you testing me? Bring me a denarius to look at.”
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They brought one to him and he said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?” They replied to him, “Caesar’s.”
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So Jesus said to them, "Repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.’ They were utterly amazed at him.

I think Jesus thought it was possible, even a responsibility, to be a good citizen, as well as a good Christian. Our public life should be a witness to our Faith. 'We are the only Bible some will ever read."

Did I come anywhere close to addressing you question? Or did I miss the boat altogether??

 

[LilyM]

Well, you could always renounce your citizenship. Of course, that’ll limit you in terms of the jobs you can do and the business you can conduct.

And regardless of your status, if you live and work in a particular country, you’ll still have to pay taxes of various kinds to its government, including (usually) on income earned there. And you’ll still have to pay rates to your local councils in return for the services of garbage disposal, town water and the like.

And you’ll still have to abide by the laws of whatever country you live and work in. So I don’t really see that there are any significant practical advantages to not being a citizen.

And you won’t get any say in who gets to govern the place where you’re living and working. The government will affect you anyway whether you’re a citizen or not, so it doesn’t make sense to me NOT to get and exercise the right to vote if you can.

 

[allcingi]

I’m not really sure what you are talking about here. Where do you live? Are you in the U.S? And when you talk about this:

Are you talking about taxes? I can assure you that any nation won’t let you take a citizenship status that exempts you from paying taxes. Also remember that Jesus told us to “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”

I’m not talking about taxes. Communities have communal needs so taxes are a necessity. I’m talking about how states take advantage of our ignorance and force us to pay thousands in registrations, licenses, and fees. Let’s say I’m a 24 yr old college student, and I don’t really have a lot of time to spare. I need to drive a vehicle to school and work. The STATE OF TEXAS requires me to pay 60 bucks a year to “register”, which means sign away ownership ownership of, my vehicle to it. So I already bought my vehicle, paid the tax, and paid the gas tax to maintain the roads which I communally own. Now the state wants an additional 10 hrs of my life a year to drive a vehicle that I own on roads I pay for and pay to maintain… Something rubs me the wrong way with that. If I fail to pay the 60 bucks to sign away ownership of my vehicle to the “Captain of the Citizen Ship”, I get slapped with another 240 bucks. That really rubs me the wrong way. That is just one of the many many examples. I could go on all day, but I’m hoping I explained that better.
It’s called a Citizen Ship because those who are in it have NO God given rights. Remember this land we live on is owned and created by God. So in order to take God out of the picture, one must be out at sea on a ship. A ship must have a captain who is responsible for the crew. The crew has signed ‘seamans papers’, aka birth certificates and social security, licenses, registrations, and other contracts which bind them into having to do what the captain says. Those sailors who refuse to obey the captain are then thrown into the brig. This system works well if the captain has the sailors best interest at heart, but all hell breaks loose when the captain is corrupted by power and greed.
I believe the captain of our Citizen Ship has been corrupted by power and greed, and seeing as how I live on the land, there is no danger of me causing the “ship” to sink, therefore I have no need for a captain to force me into doing chores that violate my God given rights and inhibit me from pursuing my true purpose in life. Does that make any sense?

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I’m not talking about taxes. Communities have communal needs so taxes are a necessity. I’m talking about how states take advantage of our ignorance and force us to pay thousands in registrations, licenses, and fees. Let’s say I’m a 24 yr old college student, and I don’t really have a lot of time to spare. I need to drive a vehicle to school and work. The STATE OF TEXAS requires me to pay 60 bucks a year to “register”, which means sign away ownership ownership of, my vehicle to it. So I already bought my vehicle, paid the tax, and paid the gas tax to maintain the roads which I communally own. Now the state wants an additional 10 hrs of my life a year to drive a vehicle that I own on roads I pay for and pay to maintain… Something rubs me the wrong way with that. If I fail to pay the 60 bucks to sign away ownership of my vehicle to the “Captain of the Citizen Ship”, I get slapped with another 240 bucks. That really rubs me the wrong way. That is just one of the many many examples. I could go on all day, but I’m hoping I explained that better.
It’s called a Citizen Ship because those who are in it have NO God given rights. Remember this land we live on is owned and created by God. So in order to take God out of the picture, one must be out at sea on a ship. A ship must have a captain who is responsible for the crew. The crew has signed ‘seamans papers’, aka birth certificates and social security, licenses, registrations, and other contracts which bind them into having to do what the captain says. Those sailors who refuse to obey the captain are then thrown into the brig. This system works well if the captain has the sailors best interest at heart, but all hell breaks loose when the captain is corrupted by power and greed.
I believe the captain of our Citizen Ship has been corrupted by power and greed, and seeing as how I live on the land, there is no danger of me causing the “ship” to sink, therefore I have no need for a captain to force me into doing chores that violate my God given rights and inhibit me from pursuing my true purpose in life. Does that make any sense?

I looked up how gas taxes are spent in the state of texas, and it looks like it goes into a general fund from which schools, roads, police, etc are paid out of. The money from vehicle tabs goes into transportation projects and road maintenance.

The thing is, you are not signing over posession of your car when you register your vehicle. You are paying a yearly tax to use the roads in your state. You are registering your vehicle with the state and are given a lisence (your plates) so if you report your car stolen, they can find it using the plates on the car.

The other thing is, this is all totally optional taxation. If you are unhappy with tabs, then you don’t have to buy a car AND drive it on the road (trucks in farm areas that are never driven on public roads don’t need to be registered) you can always take the bus or carpool. You can also write about your frustrations to your congressman or governor, and vote for candidates who will support your values. If you forfeit citizenship, you can’t vote, work, or drive your unlisenced car on state roads. It would have been easier just to not own a car in the long run…

I understand your frustrations, and they are indeed irritating. I myself live in a MUCH more liberal state than Texas and my taxes are much higher. This is why I voice my opinion by voting for people who will support my beliefs.

Also, God made the sea too

 

[manualman]

This is a very strange thread. Licensing and plates for a car is just another tax. Actually it is a BETTER kind of tax than the usual “Give me X% of your income and us smart government types will figure out how to spend it” tax.

People are quick to gripe about such taxes right up until THE very moment that they need to BENEFIT from it. Tommorrow somebody might sideswipe your car in a parking lot and drive off. If you get their license plate number, there is a good chance the police will nab them. Same goes when someone runs somebody over, panics and tries to drive off to not get caught. Odds are that license plate will get 'em.

People expect certain services from the government. Those services cost money. I’d MUCH rather pay taxes in the form of fees on the services rendered than the usual approach of general tax revenue funding everything.

You sound like one of those romantics who fantasizes about life without a government. Take a short tour of Somalia and come back and tell us how that works out for you…

 

[LilyM]

I agree, bizarre thread.

If you want to own a car in the State of Texas, the government of Texas somehow has to pay for your privilege of driving in all sorts of ways.

It has to construct the roads so that you have something to drive on (and repair the damage to the roads you do just by driving on them).

It has to pay for electricity for the traffic lights so that you don’t smack into other cars or they you.

Police to protect you from any drunks or speeding drivers who might injure you - by nabbing as many as they can before they can hurt you.

Road signs to tell you where you need to go, how far away you are from your destination, what the speed limit is on any given road …

Where do you think the money should come from for them to pay for all the ways in which they help you the driver except FROM you, the driver?

 

[allcingi]

I agree, bizarre thread.

If you want to own a car in the State of Texas, the government of Texas somehow has to pay for your privilege of driving in all sorts of ways.

It has to construct the roads so that you have something to drive on (and repair the damage to the roads you do just by driving on them).

It has to pay for electricity for the traffic lights so that you don’t smack into other cars or they you.

Police to protect you from any drunks or speeding drivers who might injure you - by nabbing as many as they can before they can hurt you.

Road signs to tell you where you need to go, how far away you are from your destination, what the speed limit is on any given road …

Where do you think the money should come from for them to pay for all the ways in which they help you the driver except FROM you, the driver?

Maybe the 11 billion smackers a month we spend killing people in Iraq? That’ll pay a few salaries and buy a traffic light or two. I don’t like how my money is being spent, but I’m probably just weird. I mean God says that we shouldn’t kill anyone… But Bush said it’s ok so lets light 'em up right? Fighting fire with fire always works. Before I stir up a lot of back and forth arguing I just want to say that all we really know about this war and our government is what the media tells us, and I don’t think the media is interested in sharing the Truth. I think the media is interested in making money as is the government. Can one serve God and mammon? Or is that saying outdated and irrevelant? What about he who has the money has the power? I’m not at all convinced these crazy taxes and fees are about cost or money… The evidence suggests to me that there is something bigger going on that what meets the eye. I think it is primarily driven by greed and a lust for power. I just know I will never be at peace as long as I feel as if I am being forced to support it. Those are just my beliefs. I’ve been ridiculed by Americans my entire life because of them so I don’t expect that to change. Maybe I am just placing too high of a value on my privacy? I was just curious if anyone else had studied and figured out the darker side of politics.

 

[allcingi]

This is a very strange thread. Licensing and plates for a car is just another tax. Actually it is a BETTER kind of tax than the usual “Give me X% of your income and us smart government types will figure out how to spend it” tax.

People are quick to gripe about such taxes right up until THE very moment that they need to BENEFIT from it. Tommorrow somebody might sideswipe your car in a parking lot and drive off. If you get their license plate number, there is a good chance the police will nab them. Same goes when someone runs somebody over, panics and tries to drive off to not get caught. Odds are that license plate will get 'em.

People expect certain services from the government. Those services cost money. I’d MUCH rather pay taxes in the form of fees on the services rendered than the usual approach of general tax revenue funding everything.

You sound like one of those romantics who fantasizes about life without a government. Take a short tour of Somalia and come back and tell us how that works out for you…

I just enjoy a good controversy I’m not saying I want a life without government because society is too greedy, unorganized, and apathetic to govern themselves. I guess what I fantasize about the most is a society that that hasn’t been conditioned to fear and loathe one another. If we had one of those, then people wouldn’t need to run and hide after accidents. However, since I can’t get blood from a turnip I figured I’d try a new approach.
You know though… you are right. The government hasn’t done anything to us that we as a society haven’t asked for. As a whole, society blames the government for improperly handling a situation or disaster. If we acted as a whole, we wouldn’t have to blame the government for acting ineffectively because we would have solved the problem before the government even found out such a problem existed. LOL I’m kinda talkin to myself now. After Katrina I should have rounded up all my buddies, rented U-Haul trucks, and bought every case of water and can of pork and beans I came across between central Texas and New Orleans. Instead, I sat on my butt watching the news and tellin FEMA to hurry up.
Back to topic… I was too broke to do that anyway because of that darned registration fee I’ll shut up now… I just wanted to throw some gas on the fire

 

[allcingi]

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut everyone. I always learn a lot about myself from conversations like this.