H3ritic daily question

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the daily question from a heretic of the Catholic Church

Guys, I want to open this discussion board in light that I love you all and do not mean to come across in an inapropriate hurtful manner at all. I am a Catholic heretic and do not want to be misled for any reason and would wish the same for you. The purpose of these questions are to stimulate GOD’s word into the heart of all, that the truth be known whether I am right or wrong! Please provide appropriate scriptures and chapter context. DO NOT SUPPLY NON BIBLICAL HISTORICAL FACTS. It is not written in GOD’s word therefore it may be flawed. Answer with an open heart and loving compasion. With that said I shall proceed with my first question:
  1. Why are priest’s still needed and are they considered of greater holiness?
 
h3ritic said:
the daily question from a heretic of the Catholic Church

Guys, I want to open this discussion board in light that I love you all and do not mean to come across in an inapropriate hurtful manner at all. I am a Catholic heretic and do not want to be misled for any reason and would wish the same for you. The purpose of these questions are to stimulate GOD’s word into the heart of all, that the truth be known whether I am right or wrong! Please provide appropriate scriptures and chapter context. DO NOT SUPPLY NON BIBLICAL HISTORICAL FACTS. It is not written in GOD’s word therefore it may be flawed. Answer with an open heart and loving compasion. With that said I shall proceed with my first question:
  1. Why are priest’s still needed and are they considered of greater holiness?
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Welcome to the boards.
I am not a well versed person in aplogetics so will leave the bulk of the discussion to others. However…

I would suggest that before answering your questions it would be beneficial to talk about the conditions you wish to impose. You say that you do not wish to have sources outside of “God’s Word” by which I assume you mean the Holy Bible. You wish to avoid such sources because they may contain error.
Yet I will wager that within a very short time, of receiving answers based upon the Bible, you, or other non-catholics will begin explaining how we are wrong in our understanding of the Bible verses used. In other words you and we will see the same words in different light (interpretations). You will claim our interpretation as error and we will defend them as true.
One great source to avoid being misled are the writings of the church fathers. They tell us how the early Church, much closer to the original apostles, understood the texts and so forth. By excluding such sources you actually increase rather than decrease the possiblity of being misled.

Once we have agreed upon the sources allowed, it will be much easier for you, as well as us, to get at a fuller understanding of the questions you have asked.

Peace
James
 
I will accept those such references, but I would prefer to avoid it if possible. My idea is to gain from scripture in a whole, and trying not to include outside sources that might(I use that word strongly) be tainted. If a source is used that is relevant, I will pray about it and see where GOD leads me.

short answer: Go For It
 
\The purpose of these questions are to stimulate GOD’s word into the heart of all, that the truth be known whether I am right or wrong! Please provide appropriate scriptures and chapter context. DO NOT SUPPLY NON BIBLICAL HISTORICAL FACTS. It is not written in GOD’s word therefore it may be flawed. Answer with an open heart and loving compasion. With that said I shall proceed with my first question:
  1. Why are priest’s still needed and are they considered of greater holiness?\
**I’ll bet you think that you have things to say that have not already been hashed over hundreds of times.

But to deal with your question, the English word “priest” is a cognate of the Greek word “presbyteros”, through the Middle English “prester”, meaning Elder.

The Greek New Testament talks about Bishops (episcopoi), Elders/Priests (presbyteroi), and Deacons (diakonoi) being the leaders and ministers of the Church.

The Greek word for a ritualistic or cultic priest, as used in the NT is HIEREVS, which is a synonym to the Latin SACERDOS.

No one thinks that Christian priests are intrinsically “of greater holiness,” especially clergy themselves, but they ARE called to a very holy responsibility and office.**
 
Building on the post above, and the fact that the priesthood is clearly established in Scripture, perhaps it would be easier if you showed us where Scripture says that priests are no longer needed. 🙂
 
I agree with JRKH. As a Catholic heretic, you probably know where Catholic teaching comes from, so the limitations of your debate are kind of silly.

Kind of like, “answer my question, but don’t use half the knowledge you posess!” 😉

Priests continue the tradition of the apostles and the students of the apostles preaching and teaching to the new-found christians. That is in the bible for sure.

I am not a new-found christian, but I will eagerly accept the teachings of ones who dedicate their life to religious work.

I wish I could take time to answer in more detail, but I can’t right now! I had to pipe in though. 🙂

Your question was brought up in love and fellowship, and I appreciate that.
 
Priests are needed because they build up the body of Christ. Holiness depends on the individual.

**And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, (Eph 4:11-12)

Presbyters who preside well deserve double honor, especially those who toil in preaching and teaching. (1 Tim 5:17)

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. (James 5:14-15)**
 
h3ritic said:
the daily question from a heretic of the Catholic Church

Guys, I want to open this discussion board in light that I love you all and do not mean to come across in an inapropriate hurtful manner at all. I am a Catholic heretic and do not want to be misled for any reason and would wish the same for you. The purpose of these questions are to stimulate GOD’s word into the heart of all, that the truth be known whether I am right or wrong! Please provide appropriate scriptures and chapter context. DO NOT SUPPLY NON BIBLICAL HISTORICAL FACTS. It is not written in GOD’s word therefore it may be flawed. Answer with an open heart and loving compasion. With that said I shall proceed with my first question:
  1. Why are priest’s still needed and are they considered of greater holiness?
Click to expand...
Not directly answering your question here.

Back in the 70’s, I kinda, sorta left the Catholic Church. I started attending protestant churches. My reason was that I had so many questions about Catholicism and there was no one who was able to answer me. The Priest didn’t have enough time, the Sunday School teacher just plain didn’t know or was outright wrong. The only place I was able to ask questions and get answers was from other churches. I wasn’t a “h3ritic,” I just plain didn’t know. I wound up rejecting and disbelieving so many things that later turned out not to be at all true about the Catholic religion. At the time, there was no other place to turn. It turns out that I was a Catholic all along, just didn’t know it.

Today, we have radio, internet, CatholicAnswers.com, a very active ministry in the church, so many places to go to ask questions and find legitimate answers. It is GREAT that you have come here.

I did not take your introduction the wrong way. It sounds to me very similar to the way I was feeling when I was investigating and hearing things and not able to make sense of them or to put them into a true perspective.

There are some GREAT people who respond regularly here. You’ll find some of them in the responses before mine. And I’m sure others will answer.

Please do not hesitate to ask legitimate questions because we all love to hear, answer, and get clearer answers ourselves.
 
Matthew 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split.

Not sure whether this is relevent or not. But I think it means that anyone could reach God through the temple after Jesus’ death.

another thing that concerns me is the order of Melchisedec

can anyone shed light on that for me?
 
Not quite through the ‘Temple’, but through the Church. I Got this answer from another site, but it provides all the Biblical citations anyway…

“And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom” (Matthew 27:50-51a).

So, what do we make of this? What significance does this torn veil have for us today? Above all, the tearing of the veil at the moment of Jesus’ death dramatically symbolized that His sacrifice, the shedding of His own blood, was a sufficient atonement for sins. It signified that now the way into the Holy of Holies was open for all people, for all time, both Jew and Gentile.

When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with hands (Acts 17:24). God was through with that temple and its religious system, and the temple and Jerusalem were left “desolate” (destroyed by the Romans) in A.D. 70, just as Jesus prophesied in Luke 13:35. As long as the temple stood, it signified the continuation of the Old Covenant. Hebrews 9:8-9 refers to the age that was passing away as the new covenant was being established (Hebrews 8:13).

In a sense, the veil was symbolic of Christ Himself as the only way to the Father (John 14:6). This is indicated by the fact that the high priest had to enter the Holy of Holies through the veil. Now Christ is our superior High Priest, and as believers in His finished work, we partake of His better priesthood. We can now enter the Holy of Holies through Him. Hebrews 10:19-20 says that the faithful enter into the sanctuary by the “blood of Jesus, by the new and living way which he opened for us through the veil, that is, through his flesh.” Here we see the image of Jesus’ flesh being torn for us just as He was tearing the veil for us.

The veil being torn from top to bottom is a fact of history. The profound significance of this event is explained in glorious detail in Hebrews. The things of the temple were shadows of things to come, and they all ultimately point us to Jesus Christ. He was the veil to the Holy of Holies, and through His death the faithful now have free access to God.

The veil in the temple was a constant reminder that sin renders humanity unfit for the presence of God. The fact that the sin offering was offered annually and countless other sacrifices repeated daily showed graphically that sin could not truly be atoned for or erased by mere animal sacrifices. Jesus Christ, through His death, has removed the barriers between God and man, and now we may approach Him with confidence and boldness (Hebrews 4:14-16).
 
h3ritic said:
Matthew 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split.

Not sure whether this is relevent or not. But I think it means that anyone could reach God through the temple after Jesus’ death.

another thing that concerns me is the order of Melchisedec

can anyone shed light on that for me?
Click to expand...
The verse you cite says absolutely nothing about the priesthood. Where did you get the idea that it does? I can tell you. You got it from someone who told you it means we no longer need the priesthood as depicted in the OT. Am I right? OK, so how do you know that’s why Matthew told us about the rending of the curtain of the temple? Because someone told you so, not because the text itself says that. So, why do you believe that person over the text itself if the Bible can interpret itself? You have to answer that question before we can continue the discussion about Melchisedec or anything else.
 
h3ritic said:
Matthew 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split.

Not sure whether this is relevent or not. But I think it means that anyone could reach God through the temple after Jesus’ death.
Click to expand...
You’re right. It’s not relevant.

Seems to me you’re not asking questions, but looking for a way to express ideas you already have.
 
OK guys, open heart. Listen, after hearing your responses I looked for the supporting scriptures and what I found was what my response was. I remembered reading the verse on the curtains in the temple opening a while back and was interested in knowing if it had any relevance. I’m asking these questions because I want to know, but with people assuming things, it doesn’t tell me much but ones eagerness to prove someone wrong. That is not my point here! So continue with the answers. I am pretty specific about reading verses and praying about them and letting God lead me and not someones opinion. I am not quick to assume, just looking for some answers. God lead me here so thats where I’m at. So continue with your breakdown. Remember, talk to me like you were to convince me to convert, not so eager to strike me down.
 
h3ritic said:
OK guys, open heart. Listen, after hearing your responses I looked for the supporting scriptures and what I found was what my response was. I remembered reading the verse on the curtains in the temple opening a while back and was interested in knowing if it had any relevance. I’m asking these questions because I want to know, but with people assuming things, it doesn’t tell me much but ones eagerness to prove someone wrong. That is not my point here! So continue with the answers. I am pretty specific about reading verses and praying about them and letting God lead me and not someones opinion. I am not quick to assume, just looking for some answers. God lead me here so thats where I’m at. So continue with your breakdown. Remember, talk to me like you were to convince me to convert, not so eager to strike me down.
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Hang in there my friend.
We can be pretty hard on people sometimes, especially new people, because we see a fair number of “baiting” threads that are started by people who come here, not to ask questions, but rather to try and evangelize us “poor”, “misguided” catholics.
It tends to make some people a bit jaded.
So - assuming that your search and your desires are sincere, we will continue to try and answer your questions.

Are you clear on where the term Priest comes from biblically?

I don’t think anyone has addressed the second part of your question about whether priests are more holy than others, so I’ll take a quick stab.
Basically the answer is - no they are not necessarily more holy than anyone else. They are people and sinners like the rest of us. They are also (or should be) well educated in things theological, trained in pastoral duties, and blessed with the capacity to hear confessions and confect the Holy Eucharist. They are hard workers in looking after God’s flock and certainly deserve our respect.

Peace
James
 
h3ritic said:
the daily question from a heretic of the Catholic Church

Guys, I want to open this discussion board in light that I love you all and do not mean to come across in an inapropriate hurtful manner at all. I am a Catholic heretic and do not want to be misled for any reason and would wish the same for you. The purpose of these questions are to stimulate GOD’s word into the heart of all, that the truth be known whether I am right or wrong! Please provide appropriate scriptures and chapter context. DO NOT SUPPLY NON BIBLICAL HISTORICAL FACTS. It is not written in GOD’s word therefore it may be flawed. Answer with an open heart and loving compasion. With that said I shall proceed with my first question:
  1. Why are priest’s still needed and are they considered of greater holiness?
Click to expand...
Here’s a good start:

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0503fea4.asp
 
Not to change the topic too much, I have to admit I have no idea what it means to say
h3ritic said:
I am a Catholic heretic
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How can you be both Catholic, and a heretic? That statement is a little like “here is a square circle”, or “the weather tomorrow will be boiling hot snow and ice.”
 
hello,

A little question…

Please explain to me all about the United States. But I will accept only what is written in the Constitution of the United States…not what anyone else wrote or what courts said or Presidents…only accept what is in the Constitution…for only the Constitution counts…

here is the first question…
  1. Now why are their women on the Supreme court and are the as equal as the men?
 
I mean that in respect etc…

but it is a bit like what you are asking in some of your posts thus far.

for much happened in the Church prior to the Bible being gathered and put together as a canon of particular books…and much has happened since.

the written Word of God is …well the Word of God…but that does not mean one may not draw on history, early Christian writings, etc to answer questions…
 
Thank you for the answers to that specific question. My next one is open for any historical evidence you can bring in, anything that may prove relevant.
  1. What do you guys believe about tounges, what are the church regulations on that, and what are the scriptures and/or historical documents that the church based that decision on?
 
h3ritic said:
Thank you for the answers to that specific question. My next one is open for any historical evidence you can bring in, anything that may prove relevant.
  1. What do you guys believe about tounges, what are the church regulations on that, and what are the scriptures and/or historical documents that the church based that decision on?
Click to expand...
If you are going to change the topic, you should start a new thread.
 
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