Had a few drinks last evening - did I commit a mortal sin?

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What’s the point of drinking at all if there is no slight buzz or feeling of elevation? I think that when they discuss "binge drinking of College kids they are talking five or more drinks at one setting. Obviously for a 110 lb woman as opposed to a 280 lb tackle there is going to be quite a difference in what it takes to get past that slight buzz. I used to do five drinks over an evening of three or four hours and not feel much, for the last 20 years I am lucky to do one drink a month and I don’t miss it at all.
 
Dwyer said:
Ummm, I hate to spoil the party: one, uh two, but uh three? Wasn’t two enough? That’s a lot of alcohol.

If your serious about your faith, you should exercise Temperance in drinking. I would stick to one or two. It also depends on your weight. Everyone is going to say, well why is it a sin, he didn’t get falling down drunk?

getting slightly buzzed is not the Christian thing to do.
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Dwyer,

The plain fact is…you have no right to make this kind of determination. Each person decides for themselves what is temperate and what is not. This reminds me of the legalistic attitude one of my religion teachers told me about when he was growing up: If you had less than 3 ounces of meat on a Friday, it was only a venial sin, but if you ate more than 3 ounces, it was a mortal sin! He was actually taught this!

As for getting buzzed being unChristian…Jesus drank wine on many occasions. Do you think He never felt the effects? Wine is part of Jewish culture, and I am sure the drinkers feel it when they drink it. And also, go to your local rectory and tell all the priests who enjoy a cold beer (or a few…my husband can drink four beers on a Saturday without it having inappropriate effects) at the end of their workday that they are not acting like proper Christians.

You calling something sin that is usually and most likely morally neutral. This person was relaxing in the privacy of their own home, not hurting anyone, and not engaging in any immoral behavior.
Dwyer said:
If you go to confession, you should ask your priest (someone who is old-fashioned and not a lberal) about this. Just tell him what you said in the question. He’ll tell you for certain if it was a mortal sin or not.
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Old-fashioned…you mean like a priest from the 50s? Those fire-and-brimstone whiskey and beer-drinking Irish priests? 😉
 
duskyjewel said:
You calling something sin that is usually and most likely morally neutral.
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And is also medically proven to have numerous health benefits in moderate amounts. You are actually helping your body when you enjoy some red wine - sounds like a good idea right now…
 
Not to mention there is a pure sillyness to counting drinks. If I drank 3 Porters in the span of an hour or two - that would be too much. But if I drank 3 Miller Lites I doubt I would feel a thing.

Plus when you’re talking mixed drinks it depends ENTIRELY on who mixed it.

I have NO IDEA how anyone can come here and tell another person “Yep that was too much” when A) they have NO CLUE how much alcohol was in those 3 drinks and B) they weren’t even there to see how drunk (or not) the person got.

Oh, yeah. Jesus was accused of being a drunkard because he was always partying with his disciples.

Heck, if I was at a party and a guy changed water into wine, I think I would drop everything and follow him around the rest of my life.
 
Bennie_P said:
What you got against the Irish?:irish3:
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Coming from a long line of Irish, and married to a guy who also has some Irish in him…I meant it as a compliment! And to make a point to the OP.

My husband and I joke that since we are a mix of Irish, French, German and Italian, among other things I am sure, and Catholic (i.e. not strict Protestant) we are practically REQUIRED to drink! 😃
 
I agree! I happen to like Belgian-style Ales (e.g. Duvel, Chimay). They are in the 9-12% alcohol range. Three of those in an hour or two might make you a little tipsy. 😉 😛
Black_Jaque said:
Not to mention there is a pure sillyness to counting drinks. If I drank 3 Porters in the span of an hour or two - that would be too much. But if I drank 3 Miller Lites I doubt I would feel a thing.

Plus when you’re talking mixed drinks it depends ENTIRELY on who mixed it.

I have NO IDEA how anyone can come here and tell another person “Yep that was too much” when A) they have NO CLUE how much alcohol was in those 3 drinks and B) they weren’t even there to see how drunk (or not) the person got.

Oh, yeah. Jesus was accused of being a drunkard because he was always partying with his disciples.

Heck, if I was at a party and a guy changed water into wine, I think I would drop everything and follow him around the rest of my life.
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Mortal sin? Absolutely not. CCC 1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Drinking is not grave matter even on occassion in excess so long as the drinking is the root of something more sinister. If you had sat there, visiting amiably, and just over the course of the evening drank more than prudent, there may not even be a venial sin. It wasn’t a conscious act against God and you didn’t have intent to drink to excess,

Sin is representative of what is in your heart or if is contrary to God’s law. The numerous examples of Christ imbibing and even providing alcohol ought to give adequate knowledge that it is not contrary to God’s law. Just as one can gorge themself to being too full @ Thanksgiving without sinning, it is not a sin to on rare occassion to have too much alcohol.

I know people will speak to the “all things in moderation” and it is wise counsel. But it doesn’t make it sinful to occassionally go outside the lines so long as it doesn’t lead to behaviour that is sinful.

I was once counseled by a good Priest that drinking isn’t a sin but what you do when you drink and why you do it are the tests. In your situation it sounds perfectly innocent.

Notwithstanding what I said above, I don’t want to minimize the dangers of alcohol to some people. If it removes inhibitions such they conduct themselves improperly, endanger others or do it regularly such that it impairs their health, it should be avoided or done with very strict monitoring of consumption.
 
The plain fact is . . . you have no right to make this determination. Each person decides for themselves what is temperate and what is not.
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Duskyjewel

Well . . . the Thread author was asking if he committed a mortal sin. I was just trying to answer his question. This is, after all, a Catholic Christian faith-based Forum that tries to provide Catholic answers to people’s question.

As a Catholic, you’re supposed to admonish the sinner. I think it is one of the virtues. Also, read 1 Corinthians 5: 9-12.

I did a little research on the subject on the Catholic Answers Home page and EWTN.com.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states in paragraph 2290 (this is the Catholic Church’s infallible teaching on the subject):
The virtue of Temperence disposes us to avoid every kind of excess; the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine.
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The Virtue of Temperance disposes us to AVOID every kind of excess, including the abuse of alcohol.

Having read that, now my interpretation of the above text is abusing alcohol is a mortal sin.

I know that we live in a society in which alcohol is heavily marketed, in television commercials, magazines, at sporting events. Professional Sports stadiums are owned by beer breweries. The History channel runs ads for gin. We live in a hedonistic, materialistic culture.

Our culture does say no to drugs, but almost anything else is seen as being acceptable, as long as you are not physically causing pain to someone else. The Bible is generally not referred to in our secular culture as a guide to moral behavior.

Here are some Biblical (Word of the Lord) verses:
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit
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(Ephesians 5: 18)
No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments
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. (1 Timothy 5:23)
Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all for the glorification of God
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. (sorry, forgot to get chapter and verse)

According to Catholic teaching, God wants us to enjoy the good things of the earth, but he wants us to exercise Temperance in enjoying those things.

I saw a similar question like this one answered by Father Robert Levis on the Catholic Q & A show Web of Faith. From what I can remember, he said it depends on their gender and size, indicating that a “large” man could have two, perhaps even three beers.

This topic is a good topic, given our alcohol obsessed American society. I know y’all have your OWN opinions, and therefore your OWN answers, but I am trying to base my response on Catholic Truth in order to give a Catholic answer to the question. I am not trying to base it on how I feel, or how I think, or on my opinion, but what the Catholic Church teaches about the matter.

Given what I have read, I don’t think that it now matters at all whether or not the drinking leads to sinful thoughts, words, or actions.

The Virtue of Temperance disposes us to avoid **every kind **of excess, including the abuse of alcohol.

As long as your boozing it up, I think you’re committing a mortal sin. And as the above Scripture quotes illustrate, the sin is drunkeness.

Now the question comes down to: is it o.k. if I’m just a little little bit drunk?

If the CCC says you should* avoid * **every kind **of excess, I would say it’s not o.k.

Getting buzzed. Is it a mortal sin? Based on what I’ve now read, I would say it’s a Venial sin. If you drunk-drunk, then it is a mortal sin. I am not a theologian, but I’ve read a lot about the Catholic Church. This still would be a good question to ask the Catholic Answers experts or the EWTN.com experts.

Finally, some people mentioned Jesus and the Wedding Feast. Modern Orthodox Jews are not allowed to get drunk, except for on one day a year which is their Purim Festival held in March. I’m sure there is something in the Old Testament about it.

I don’t read anything in the Bible (John 2) that says people were getting toasted at the wedding, or that Jesus got drunk. That’s your imagination. My Revised Standard Version only says " . . . the wine failed . . ." The text says nothing about drunk people. I’m pretty sure the Torah (first 5 books of our Christian Bible) forbids drunkeness.
 
Dwyer said:
The Virtue of Temperance disposes us to AVOID every kind of excess, including the abuse of alcohol.
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But what is excess? In your world, it’s more than two drinks. For others, it’s somewhat more than that. The original poster didn’t get wasted, which is what “drunkeness” in the Bible is referring to.
 
I don’t think it is a mortal sin at all…unless you drink irresponsibly and act in a sinful manner. The Knights of Columbus at our church holds a crab feed every year. For about $30 you get all the crab, beer and wine you want. Of course it isn’t wise to consume TOO much but it was for a good cause and everyone was very sociable that night! This year my fiancee adn i brought along 3 other couple friends of ours and we had a lovely time! 🙂
 
Drinking alcohol in moderation is not a sin.

Catechism of the Catholic Church said:
2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
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Emphasis in underline is mine.
 
Dwyer said:
Duskyjewel

Well . . . the Thread author was asking if he committed a mortal sin. I was just trying to answer his question. This is, after all, a Catholic Christian faith-based Forum that tries to provide Catholic answers to people’s question.

If the CCC says you should* avoid ***every kind **of excess, I would say it’s not o.k.

Getting buzzed. Is it a mortal sin? Based on what I’ve now read, I would say it’s a Venial sin. If you drunk-drunk, then it is a mortal sin. I am not a theologian, but I’ve read a lot about the Catholic Church. This still would be a good question to ask the Catholic Answers experts or the EWTN.com experts.

Finally, some people mentioned Jesus and the Wedding Feast. Modern Orthodox Jews are not allowed to get drunk, except for on one day a year which is their Purim Festival held in March. I’m sure there is something in the Old Testament about it.

I don’t read anything in the Bible (John 2) that says people were getting toasted at the wedding, or that Jesus got drunk. That’s your imagination. My Revised Standard Version only says " . . . the wine failed . . ." The text says nothing about drunk people. I’m pretty sure the Torah (first 5 books of our Christian Bible) forbids drunkeness.
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What we know, there was alcohol at the Wedding of Cana. ModernOrthodox Jews are not allowed to get drunk, except for one day a year at a certain festival. The text of the Wedding of Cana makes no mention of drunk people. From what I can conclude, they could drink but they probably were not getting drunk. That is awfully vague and leaves a lot of territory.

The CCC writes to avoid every kind of excess. Once again that is awfully vague. Avoid abuse. Abuse due to it’s definition always wrong, but the problem is defining abuse.

I don’t mind it being vague so much, as I think there is a need to be vague. There are lots of different contexts, and it would be nearly impossible to explicitly state them all. Legalism is not so much needed here, but good judgement.

Drinking at work? I’d say none at all. Drinking because you depressed? A pretty poor reason. Drinking with good social activity going on? Cheers. Drinking helps encourages you to get in fights? Better avoid it. Drinking til the point of alcohol poisining? That’s one big no. Drinking a lot but you need to drive home? Not a good idea, in fact, DON’T. Drinking after your exam is done? Got a ride home, if so go ahead. Drinking aggravating a health problem? Better put it down.

I can only say, there is a lot of vagueness there, we can only make our best judgement. We can ask others to help us give us some ideas judge our judgement. I certaintly respect that you can come down the way you do and it sounds well reasoned and I don’t really see anything counter to the faith. I can only say, I can be wrong and so can you, although I think we might just have slightly different positions. And to those they are trying to shape their ideas, I hope this helped.
 
Dwyer,
I am not trying to base it on how I feel, or how** I** think, or on my opinion, but what the Catholic Church teaches about the matter.
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Okey-dokey then. Show me where in the Bible or the Cathechism of the Catholic Church that defines 2 drinks as OK but 3 drinks is abusive.

If you can show me that then I will agree with you. Until then it appears to me that you are indeed basing this on your own feelings, or your own thoughts, or **your **own opinion.
 
I think a lot of this stuff hinges on whether you’re used to it or not. I don’t think anybody can set a rule for anybody else to say “two is fine, but three is too much” - it depends on what you know you can take. Temperance is important, but so is compassion, and if you know that having a couple will help you get closer to your friends then I think being too scrupulous can be unhelpful.

As a Scotsman, having grown up with alcohol around, I think 2 drinks would have no effect on me, and 3 might just about be enough to loosen me up a little. By drinks, I mean pints. By pints, I mean of real beer, not American fizzy water with yellow colouring 😛 . My guess is you had a lot less than that. It’s all about what’s appropriate in the culture and what you can handle yourself.

It sounds to me like you may have committed a venial sin if you are aware that you maybe had too much, but you only just tip-toed over the line. I wonder how many glasses of wine everybody had drunk at Cana when the wine ran dry, and that’s before Our Lord made his contribution to the evening’s supply! It’s all about context, and knowing what’s right in the situation.
 
Ever hear this joke?

“Wherever you find four Catholics, you’ll find a fifth.”

:tiphat:
 
Matas said:
Ever hear this joke?

“Wherever you find four Catholics, you’ll find a fifth.”

:tiphat:
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I heard it first about Episcopalians! “Where three or four are gathered, there’s always a fifth.”

Betsy
 
I was just reading C.S. Lewis’s The Silver Chair to my children last night. In the last chapter one of the fawns, Orron, describes the breakfast that a Centaur eats. It included coffee and beer, for breakfast!

I the 1700s men would go to taverns, drink alcohol, and argue politics. In the 1700s those men produced The Declaration of Independence, The Federalist Papers, Common Sense, The Constitution of the United States, and the Bill of Rights. And it wasn’t unheard of for congressmen to drink during sessions.

Today, politics is a taboo subject in bars. And Congressmen are expected to be completely sober. And what do we get? Legalized abortion, euthanasia bills, stem-cell research bills…
 
I had a great response to all this, but unfortunately there was a glitch and it got erased. I’ll try and rewrite it as soon as I can.
 
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