Hagee says Jesus didn't come to earth to be the Messiah

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believers said:
When God tells me in His Word that “All of have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”… then ALL have sinned. What does the RCC say?
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The RCC says,

St Paul, the Catholic Apostle was quoting from the Old Testament. As you said before… go read it yourself. And you will see that there are TWO groups of people St Paul if referreing to. One group fell away, and all of them have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

hint…Psalms
 
believers said:
So you don’t believe God when He said “all have sinned”? I believe it. This is simply a matter of believing God or not. Apparently, you don’t believe God.
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Apparently, you don’t believe in God when he said Jesus was sinless.
believers said:
By the way, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (THEOS)”. Theos is the plural form of God which means Jesus is not included in the “all have sinned” part of that verse. He in the God part of the verse.
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Jesus was also man. AND THEOS IS SINGULAR, NOT PLURAL, as anyone with a basic knowledge of Koine Greek knows. Why are you disobeying God’s Word and leaning into your own understanding of the Bible?
 
believers has left the building.

Now THAT is reasonable.

Perhaps he will return with better ammo

now, after this word from your sponsors, we return to the original topic.
 
Oh wow. Can we please get back on topic???:rolleyes:

As for Mr Hagee, I am not surprised by this at all. He recently brought his dog and pony show to the church that runs my children’s daycare. It was essentially a love Israel at all costs love fest complete with the testimony of an IDF soldier. When I went to one of my kid’s thanksgiving feast, the room in which we ate had a giant JERUSALEM poster on the wall. Folks, it’s not anti-semetic to bring up significant issues with the political state of Israel at the moment. Our current Holy Father as well as previous one’s have all raised serious concerns. It’s no different that disliking Bush or Clinton’s policies. You can still love America.
 
MrS said:
so, Metaron… how do you like CA so far.

Welcome
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CA? California or Catholic Answers, LOL? I love Catholic Answers! I went to RCIA still not completely (Although 90%) sure or Roman Catholicism, but these threads and topics have just assured me even more of how truthfully the Faith is taught in the Roman Church. I can’t believe people can be as decieved as that poor soul (Believers) who believed in Sola Scriptura and said that using reason is sinful and deceptive. Are you sure Believers left? I think the funny farm bus just caught up to him.
 
believers said:
So you don’t believe God when He said “all have sinned”? I believe it. This is simply a matter of believing God or not. Apparently, you don’t believe God.

By the way, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (THEOS)”. Theos is the plural form of God which means Jesus is not included in the “all have sinned” part of that verse. He in the God part of the verse.
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Acts 5:14- Believers
Mt 17:24 Doesnt
Gn 11:7 Understand
Lk 4:21 Scripture

I used the King James verion, BTW. This interpreting scripture is fun
 
Wow- I feel like the guy that threw the first punch in the bar and then hid under the table while everyone else duked it out !!

In the first place, Paul was quoting Psalm 14 when he said "All have sinned. If one goes back to Psalm 14 and reads who he was talking about, it was atheists, fools, and evildoers who have “all” sinned. Obviously, infants and the mentally retarded cannot sin, since they don’t have the knowledge and free will do so.

And concerning the word “ALL”…

Rom 3:23: “for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…”

The problem with this is that the word ‘ALL’ here is the Greek word, ‘PAS’, which can have different meanings to the absolute that we immediately think of - as shown in other verses of Holy Scripture.

John 12:19, “ALL the world has gone after him!” Did everyone in the entire world really go after Christ?

Mt 3:5-6, “Then went out to Him Jerusalem, and ALL Judea, and ALL the region about the Jordan; and they were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.”
Were all of the people of Judea, and the region about the Jordan baptized?

Luke 2:1 “And an order went out from caesar Augustus that ALL the world should be counted.”
Was everyone in the whole world counted?

Rom 11:26, “ALL Israel shall be saved.” Will everyone in Israel truly be saved?

Rom 15:14, “…you yourselves are full of love, filled with ALL knowledge…” The only person filled with ‘ALL’ knowledge is God Himself.

The Greek word ‘PAS’ in many verses in Scripture simply means a ‘great number’, ‘most of’, or ‘a lot’. So its appearance in the quoted passage can in no way be used as an objection to the sinlessness of the Virgin Mary.

The sola scriptura guy on this thread thinks he can read and understand scripture on his own, even though the bible was written in a different language, with different idioms, in a different culture, 2000 + years ago. And he gets an “A” for effort, an “F” on accuracy. Nice try though…
 
believers said:
Did you guys read your bibles at all? Before they executed Jesus, Jesus refused to claim He was the Messiah by word or deed.

It’s obvious you guys only want to hear what scratches your ears.

2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
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Perhaps we have a problem of understanding each other here. Jesus was/is the Messiah, I hope upon that we can agree. The Son knew what would happen to him before he came to earth. He knew he was the Messiah. So, it really depends upon what Hagee means. To say he didn’t come to the earth to be the Messiah when we know perfectly well he is the Messiah sounds strange. Surely it was his intent to be what he is. It wasn’t against his plans or eternal will. It sounds like a claim that Jesus was clueless and had no idea and sort of accidentally ended up as the Messiah against his will or something. Well, either that or it sounds like a denial that Jesus is the Messiah (which I doubt Hagee denies).

People were aware that he was the Messiah before his crucifixion. For example, he told the woman at Jacob’s well that he was the Messiah. Andrew knew he was the Messiah before talking to his brother Simon (Peter). People also knew it after the crucifixion. Peter preaches to the house of Israel (in Acts) that this Jesus whom you crucified is the Messiah (Christ).

It is another thing entirely to discuss the cryptic “You say so” kind of responses given by Jesus.
 
believers said:
He is also the door and vine. Why don’t you eat doors and vines?
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Sorry, but I couldn’t resist answering before getting to the end of the thread:

We don’t eat doors and vines because Jesus never asked us to do so. We partake of His Body and Blood because He commanded us to.

As for Hagee, he gives a whole new meaning to the term Judeo-Christian.:rolleyes:
 
believers said:
Did you guys read your bibles at all? Before they executed Jesus, Jesus refused to claim He was the Messiah by word or deed.

It’s obvious you guys only want to hear what scratches your ears.

2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
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Oh, the Irony.
I’ll pray for you
 
:confused: Brian C,what church do you go to?
Yeah,Cornerstone Church is always packed. At his church and headquarters in San Antonio,they do this ceremony A Night to honor Israell.I don’t know what his agenda is with the Jews.
If I was a jew,I would be suspicious.After all,Luther and several other protestant leaders were no friend of the jews.
Of course everyone should be concerned about events in the Middle East.But the push by pentecostals and others like Hagee to get the US even deeper in Israel,seems to me they are trying to fufill some prophecy or other from the Book of Revelations
and bring about who knows what in this regard.
He and a group of like minded people where in Washington earlier in the year in regards to Israel.Wish I still had the article from the San Antonio Express News,cause I would post it here.
 
Code: 
                 Originally Posted by **believers**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3011999#post3011999)                 
             *Did you guys read your bibles at all?  Before they executed Jesus, Jesus refused to claim He was the Messiah by word or deed. *
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Luke 22:
67 They said, “If you are the Messiah, tell us,” but he replied to them, “If I tell you, you will not believe,
68 and if I question, you will not respond.
69 But from this time on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”
70 They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied to them, “You say that I am.”
71 Then they said, “What further need have we for testimony? We have heard it from his own mouth.”

the “you say that I am” is a hebrism and is not to be interpreted like, “oh you said it, not me”. Its an assertion that what they said is TRUE, which is verifed by what they say next, "we have heard it from his own mouth"
 
Lol, it wasn’t MY church! It’s the church where my kids go to daycare. My parish doesn’t have a young kids daycare so we have to make due.😉
HollyDolly said:
:confused: Brian C,what church do you go to?
Yeah,Cornerstone Church is always packed. At his church and headquarters in San Antonio,they do this ceremony A Night to honor Israell.I don’t know what his agenda is with the Jews.
If I was a jew,I would be suspicious.After all,Luther and several other protestant leaders were no friend of the jews.
Of course everyone should be concerned about events in the Middle East.But the push by pentecostals and others like Hagee to get the US even deeper in Israel,seems to me they are trying to fufill some prophecy or other from the Book of Revelations
and bring about who knows what in this regard.
He and a group of like minded people where in Washington earlier in the year in regards to Israel.Wish I still had the article from the San Antonio Express News,cause I would post it here.
Click to expand...
 
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