"Hail, full of grace..." versus "Greetings, favored one..."

[dje101]

Hello everyone.

I was wondering why Catholic Bibles say “Hail, full of grace” whereas Protestant Bibles say “Greetings, favored one”? Both bibles say that they are translated from the old manuscripts and such. On the face of it to a protestant, it seems to be a rather ridiculous topic to bring up because it is just a difference in translations. However, hanging on this one sentence exists a great difference between Catholicism and Protestantism, that being the Immaculate Conception.

So how do we know which translation is correct?

 

[Belloc_Fan]

Hello everyone.

I was wondering why Catholic Bibles say “Hail, full of grace” whereas Protestant Bibles say “Greetings, favored one”? Both bibles say that they are translated from the old manuscripts and such. On the face of it to a protestant, it seems to be a rather ridiculous topic to bring up because it is just a difference in translations. However, hanging on this one sentence exists a great difference between Catholicism and Protestantism, that being the Immaculate Conception.

So how do we know which translation is correct?

Well, we both agree on what the Greek says. It’s just an issue of translation:

• “Hail” v. “Greetings”: Protestant Bibles changed this, because Hail is an honorific greeting, and if an angel (who declared, a few verses before, that he stands constantly in the presence of God: Luke 1:19) uses it, this suggests that Mary has a loftier status than Protestants are willing to give Her. But the greeting is clearly honorific. When Judas and the Romans make a big show (a false one, of course) of being deferential to Christ, this is the term they use. So we see this exact word used in Matthew 26:49 (Judas saying “Hail, Master!” to Jesus), and in Mark 15:18 (the Romans mocking Christ by saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”). In both Matthew 26:49 and Mark 15:18, Protestant Bibles translate it “Hail.” So Hail seems to clearly be the better choice than the ambiguous “Greetings.”
• “Full of Grace” v. “Favored One”: The phrase in question, Kecharitōmenē, literally means something like “Fully Graced One.” It comes from the root word “Charis,” which means grace or favor. Protestant Bibles overwhelming translate “Charis” as “Grace,” not “Favor.” The KJV, for example, translates “Charis” as “Grace” 130 times, compared to only 6 times for “Favor.” In any case, being blessed with the Favor of God is a good definition for Grace, anyways. And the form of the verb is that it’s past (but ongoing) and perfected. That is, Mary isn’t about to receive favor or grace in becoming the Mother of God. Gabriel’s saying She already enjoys that grace, that favor with God. When St. Jerome (who spoke both Latin and Greek) came to this phrase, he translated it into Latin as “Full of Grace.”

The above conclusions are supported by a wealth of early Christian writings in which they talk of Mary as the Immaculate Ark of the New Covenant, the Temple Gate (Ezekiel 44:2), and the New Eve. In Revelation 11:19-12:2, we see the Ark, the Temple, and then Mary wearing a Crown of stars in Heaven. She’s then described as the Mother of Christians (Revelation 12:17), which parallels Eve’s own title as Mother of the Living (Genesis 3:20). There’s a ***lot ***more that could be said on this, but just recognize that this isn’t something that some Catholic just deduced from a single verse. Two thousand years of Catholic understanding on this point, supported by a real wealth of Scripture, leads to this conclusion, instead.

Finally, while I think the traditional Catholic interpretation of this passage has the weight of evidence, you raise a good question. How can we know which translation is correct? By listening to the Church. It’s the same way that the Ethiopian eunuch came to an understanding of Scripture in Acts 8. You and I don’t speak Greek, so we either listen to “the experts,” or to the Church. The experts disagree, and aren’t put in a place of Church authority by Christ. If it’s the Church, then, which Church? Or put another way, is there any other serious claimant to be the One True Church besides the Catholic Church?

 

[jbarbaretta]

Hello everyone.

I was wondering why Catholic Bibles say “Hail, full of grace” whereas Protestant Bibles say “Greetings, favored one”? Both bibles say that they are translated from the old manuscripts and such. On the face of it to a protestant, it seems to be a rather ridiculous topic to bring up because it is just a difference in translations. However, hanging on this one sentence exists a great difference between Catholicism and Protestantism, that being the Immaculate Conception.

So how do we know which translation is correct?

Very good question. Oddly, both translations are technically correct. That’s why it is still a discussion. I’m not the best person to explain the intricacies of the Greek word “kecharitomene”, but its my understanding that although it can be translated as highly favored one, that really doesn’t encompass the full meaning in Greek. It is in a tense that doesn’t correspond directly to an English tense, which makes translating a little difficult, but the root for the word is “charitoo” which is grace. So, literally, it would be something like Hail, “having been graced”. Maybe even something like “having been graced and is graced”. I found 1 translation that had a footnote that said “Literally, enbued with grace”.

 

[dje101]

Thanks to both of you for your quick responses on the subject.

Belloc Fan, you bring up a very interesting point about how Protestant bibles translate it to “Hail” in other parts but not in Luke 1:28. I used the NET Bible (which has a link to the greek words and Strong’s concordance) to see what they have to say about it. On Luke 1:28 they also translate it to “Greetings”. But then I cross referenced it with Mark 15:18 and it was translated “Hail”, yet the Greek on both is the SAME exact word.

So I guess I can assume that Protestant Bibles are inconsistent with their translations and make changes where they deem necessary, huh? ugh…

 

[Belloc_Fan]

Thanks to both of you for your quick responses on the subject.

Belloc Fan, you bring up a very interesting point about how Protestant bibles translate it to “Hail” in other parts but not in Luke 1:28. I used the NET Bible (which has a link to the greek words and Strong’s concordance) to see what they have to say about it. On Luke 1:28 they also translate it to “Greetings”. But then I cross referenced it with Mark 15:18 and it was translated “Hail”, yet the Greek on both is the SAME exact word.

So I guess I can assume that Protestant Bibles are inconsistent with their translations and make changes where they deem necessary, huh? ugh…

Yup. The NIV is one of the worst in this regards. While it’s overall a very good translation, they really put their religious ideology over accurate translation. The same word is translated “traditions” when it’s bad and “teachings” when it’s good, giving the (quite incorrect) impression that Christ condemned all Tradition, instead of just the “traditions of men.”

 

[JTJohnson]

Why does the NAB, and the NAB RE, follow the Protestant interpretations? I was hoping the NAB RE would correct this.

 

[dje101]

I was just thinking; in regards to the Protestant bibles and their translation to “Greetings, highly favored one…”, it kind of seems to me that they are still admitting the Immaculate Conception without really knowing that they are. Follow me on this for a sec…

“Greetings highly favored one.”

I’d already established, because of the help of Belloc Fan, that Protestant bibles translate the word for “hail” to “greetings” in Luke 1:28 but translate it still to “hail” in Mark 15:18.

But here is what I’m thinking about the “highly favored” part.

In the day before Jesus, how was someone considered to be “highly favored” with God (even just “favored” if they’re lucky)?

Well, here’s how I recently thought about it…and please tell me if I’m wrong because this is something that I’ll end up presenting to my brother (who is against Catholicism).

To be “highly favored”, one must be righteous, because how can God favor a sinful person? We deserve death and Hell.

To be righteous, one must follow God’ commandments without fault.

To follow God’ commands, one must be completely obedient in every sense of the word. As Jesus points out, lust is the same as adultery and hate is the same as murder.

To be completely obedient, one must not want sin, because wanting sin would be a sin as well.

To not want sin, one must not have concupiscence.

To not have concupiscence (sinful nature), one must be born without sin.

I’m not Catholic and I’m not a theologian, I’m just putting together ideas that popped in my brain a few minutes ago. PLEASE TELL ME IF THIS MAKES SENSE AND IF IT IS WRONG!!

Thanks!

 

[laszlo]

Χαῖρε κεχαριτωμένη ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ εὐλογημένη σὺ ἐν γυναιξίν

blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#conc/28

if you click the G numbers next to each word you get the dictionary entries.

The ‘kecharitomene’ comes from the ‘charis’ wich is primarily grace.

The different translation ‘full of grace’ or ‘highly favored’ represents different approach to the same reality: Mary’s role, which is mystery for us.

 

[DaveBj]

First of all, when you talk about “Protestant Bibles,” you need to specify which ones you mean. There’s the KJV, the NKJV, the RV, the RSV, the ASV, the NASV, the TEV, the NLB, the LB, the NLT, the NIV…the list goes on and on. Those are just the ones on my PC Study Bible program. For copyright reasons, each new one must be different from the preceding ones. They don’t each one have a unique translation of kecharitomene, but there are some variations.

Second, there is no good English translation for kecharitomene, meaning that there is no one English word or phrase that both accurately translates the present perfect Greek participle and fits well into an English sentence. A literal translation would be “she-who-has-been-graced-and-is-still-enjoying-the-effects-of-having-been-graced.” Try fitting that into a sentence!

Third, the phrase “full of grace” is a literal, accurate translation of another Greek phrase (pleres charitos that is used of Stephen in Acts 6:8. To use the same English phrase of Mary that is properly used of Stephen could lead to confusion.

Finally, dje’s reasoning looks good, except for one thing: other people in the New Testament are described as righteous or just (dikaios). Joseph (Matt. 1:19) and Simeon (Luke 2:25) come to mind.

The point that I am trying to make is that any translation of kecharitomene is going to be imperfect, and to get hung up on one phrase to the exclusion of another is to miss the totally of the message. None of the phrases is complete by itself.

DaveBj

 

[ClamDigger]

Hello everyone.

I was wondering why Catholic Bibles say “Hail, full of grace” whereas Protestant Bibles say “Greetings, favored one”? Both bibles say that they are translated from the old manuscripts and such. On the face of it to a protestant, it seems to be a rather ridiculous topic to bring up because it is just a difference in translations. However, hanging on this one sentence exists a great difference between Catholicism and Protestantism, that being the Immaculate Conception.

So how do we know which translation is correct?

The translation “full of grace” is correct. The Greek “kecharitomene” basically means “to be made full of grace and still full of grace”, which is the word that is used in the Gospel of Luke.