Hail, Holy Queen

[NotWorthy]

I’m in complete agreement with you, Manny. I was just wondering how someone who DOESN’T agree with the Assumption would answer my previous post.

You forget the “Trail of Blood” . You know, that whole “Remant Thang”.

 

[Cari]

You forget the “Trail of Blood” . You know, that whole “Remant Thang”.

Ooooh riiiiight. Now, I’ve never read the book, but this is the theory that the Baptist Chruch actually existed prior to Roger Williams, Dr. John Clarke, AND John Smyth (which, oddly enough, all three I’ve found reported to have been the founder of that denomination), right?

So, theory goes, it was THIS Church that has preserved the True Faith, and been protected from the gates of hell…?

So what about Protestant denoms that DON’T subscribe to the doctrine of the Assumption, but aren’t Baptists- they’re in the same apostasy boat, but for different reasons, huh?

 

[NotWorthy]

Ooooh riiiiight. Now, I’ve never read the book, but this is the theory that the Baptist Chruch actually existed prior to Roger Williams, Dr. John Clarke, AND John Smyth (which, oddly enough, all three I’ve found reported to have been the founder of that denomination), right?

So, theory goes, it was THIS Church that has preserved the True Faith, and been protected from the gates of hell…?

So what about Protestant denoms that DON’T subscribe to the doctrine of the Assumption, but aren’t Baptists- they’re in the same apostasy boat, but for different reasons, huh?

Well, our Church of Christ brothers, under the leadership of Mr. Campbell, have laid claim to this, or something very close to this theory.

 

[NonDenom]

Our Life, our sweetness, our hope? I have a problem with this in regards to Mary. Not so much the sweetness part, but our Life and our Hope??? That seems to me to be elevating Mary to the same place as our Lord. I’m sure I’m misundertanding or misinterpreting this, (I hope), but some good Catholic answers would be helpful.

TIA,
oneseeker

Hi
I don’t think your missinterpreting it, Catholics do elevate Mary to a status higher than I’m sure she wants to be. I would bet that if she were here she would tell the church to stop focising on her and focus on the one who gave His life the church. I have heard Catholic’s say that focusing on Her brings them closer to Christ, that makes no sence what so ever. My relationship grow with Christ when I spend time with Him.

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi
I don’t think your missinterpreting it, Catholics do elevate Mary to a status higher than I’m sure she wants to be. I would bet that if she were here she would tell the church to stop focising on her and focus on the one who gave His life the church. I have heard Catholic’s say that focusing on Her brings them closer to Christ, that makes no sence what so ever. My relationship grow with Christ when I spend time with Him.

And you speak for all of us? Wow!!! You must be something else!

Marian Devotion may not be for you, or for others. But I’d never ridicule you by saying, “Well, Mary brought me closer to God, and for anyone to say that she doesn’t, well that makes no sensee what so ever”!

 

[LilyM]

And you speak for all of us? Wow!!! You must be something else!

More than that, you speak for Mary as if you can read her mind and heart as well! Sure she was humble, but she certainly knew that all generations were going to call her blessed, and wasn’t scared to receive flowery greetings from the Angel and Elizabeth! Or gifts and honours from the Magi. And she knew that Jesus would perform the miracle at Cana at her request.

Marian Devotion may not be for you, or for others. But I’d never ridicule you by saying, “Well, Mary brought me closer to God, and for anyone to say that she doesn’t, well that makes no sensee what so ever”!

It’s just not a question for me of spending time with Jesus v spending time with Mary - time with Mary IS time with Jesus who loved her so that almost his last thoughts on the cross were for her welfare.

Mary, unless sinfully idolised rather than simply highly honoured and venerated, always leads people to Jesus and magnifies him, as she herself said, so we can see him more clearly through her, and doesn’t obscure him in the slightest.

 

[NotWorthy]

Mary, unless sinfully idolised rather than simply highly honoured and venerated, always leads people to Jesus and magnifies him, as she herself said, so we can see him more clearly through her, and doesn’t obscure him in the slightest.

And one should only turn to Mary when one is comfortable with going to Mary.

Amen?

 

[TarlsQtr]

I am confident that Jesus being sinless did not break ANY commandments.

That is not what you clearly but unintentionally imply in post 35 of this thread.

In order to make your “point” that Mary is no higher than any of us, you use the response of Jesus to Mary at Cana by calling it rude.

That is a clear breach of honoring thy father and mother. You were either wrong then or now. Your choice.

God Bless,

Jeff

 

[LilyM]

And one should only turn to Mary when one is comfortable with going to Mary.

Amen?

Well, she’s one of the surest and safest ways, if not the surest and safest way, to Christ, at least most of those who try find her so.

But no, I wouldn’t advocate anyone going further in their honour of Mary than they are comfortable with.

 

[Eliza10]

And you speak for all of us? Wow!!! You must be something else!

Marian Devotion may not be for you, or for others. But I’d never ridicule you by saying, “Well, Mary brought me closer to God, and for anyone to say that she doesn’t, well that makes no sensee what so ever”!

:clapping: Good answer!

 

[kaycee]

That is not what you clearly but unintentionally imply in post 35 of this thread.

In order to make your “point” that Mary is no higher than any of us, you use the response of Jesus to Mary at Cana by calling it rude.

That is a clear breach of honoring thy father and mother. You were either wrong then or now. Your choice.

God Bless,

Jeff

In post 35 I said “Jesus **seems **to be **almost **rude”

Your understanding of the 5th commandment is very suspect. Resisting a parent who is in error is NOT breaking the commandment. Mention of bad timing on the part of a parent, is not breaking the commandment. Jesus being God, who wrote the commandment, is certainly a special case in any event. Jesus consistently shows that while family is important, the coming kingdom is paramount to Him, all else is secondary.

 

[TarlsQtr]

In post 35 I said “Jesus **seems **to be **almost **rude”

Your understanding of the 5th commandment is very suspect. Resisting a parent who is in error is NOT breaking the commandment. Mention of bad timing on the part of a parent, is not breaking the commandment. Jesus being God, who wrote the commandment, is certainly a special case in any event. Jesus consistently shows that while family is important, the coming kingdom is paramount to Him, all else is secondary.

You are now trying to change your (and my) story to fit your current argument.

You did not say “resisting” Mary at Cana in post 35 because you did not mean resisting. It wouldn’t have made sense in light of the context. You only now enter it into the discussion because it fits your current argument.

And, no, the mention of bad timing is not a breaking of the commandment, nor did I say it was (you changing your past argument to fit the current situation again). Again, it is how and why you originally imply He did it that would. You are now correct. Jesus was just telling her the time was wrong but you originally clearly implied that he was being dismissive (“almost rude”)to the Blessed Mother in order to further your point that she was not important to early Christianity. That would have been a sin against the commandment, something He would not do.

In the future, please address what you stated, not what you wish you stated.

One more point. This “special case” that you are referring to. Are you claiming that He had special dispensation to break commandments? Did He ever break any others, in your view? If so, when?

God Bless,

Jeff

 

[kaycee]

You are now trying to change your (and my) story to fit your current argument.

You did not say “resisting” Mary at Cana in post 35 because you did not mean resisting. It wouldn’t have made sense in light of the context. You only now enter it into the discussion because it fits your current argument.

And, no, the mention of bad timing is not a breaking of the commandment, nor did I say it was (you changing your past argument to fit the current situation again). Again, it is how and why you originally imply He did it that would. You are now correct. Jesus was just telling her the time was wrong but you originally clearly implied that he was being dismissive (“almost rude”)to the Blessed Mother in order to further your point that she was not important to early Christianity. That would have been a sin against the commandment, something He would not do.

Note quite clear on why your knit picking at this small issue. All I am saying at the Cana miracle, Jesus answered Mary with somewhat less than a loving tone. Don’t you agree? "And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

His family affilations are certainly second fiddle to His ministry in many Gospel accounts.

It is still clear Mary plays a very small part after Jesus starts His ministry.

One more point. This “special case” that you are referring to. Are you claiming that He had special dispensation to break commandments? Did He ever break any others, in your view? If so, when?

He instituted the Law, He can do whatever He wants!

The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. “So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

I certainly dont believe He broke the Law.

 

[DJPJ]

All I am saying at the Cana miracle, Jesus answered Mary with somewhat less than a loving tone. Don’t you agree? "And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

His family affilations are certainly second fiddle to His ministry in many Gospel accounts.

As a current non-catholic who is exploring the Church, I think that phrase is some of the best evidence for the importance of Mary. The idea of Jesus being rude or demeaning to his mother is obviously impossible. This is evidenced by the fact that he does in fact do the miracle. The phrase does not mean, “Get away from me woman!” The way we hear drunk fathers yell in Daytime movies, a phrase like that is that is demeaning. The NIV recognizes that Christ is doing something different, but doesn’t know what to do so it translate it, “Dear woman…” which is pretty ambiguous but sort of a step in the right direction.

What I think it would be fair to say it happening is that Christ is giving a name to Mary. She is “Woman” a picture of perfect femininity, whom He has blessed with Himself (like He does to all of us). So in calling her “Woman” He is in a way affirming her as the second Eve.

I think it is easy to forget Mary response to Christ question, because what does she have to do with him? She shows us in the next verse as she tells the servants, “Do whatever He tells you.” Mary’s mission seems simple and obvious from the biblical text. To point people to Christ.

 

[water]

I think it is easy to forget Mary response to Christ question, because what does she have to do with him? She shows us in the next verse as she tells the servants, “Do whatever He tells you.” Mary’s mission seems simple and obvious from the biblical text. To point people to Christ.

Many times, Jesus uses simple minds, simple actions of people to bring others to Him. Unfortunately, many have overlooked this and thought you needed to be able to move mountains in order to be His disciples.

 

[AngelsAmongUs]

I am a new Catholic and I feel so lucky to have found my way home. This is also my very first post, but I feel compelled to reply on this subject.

If you could choose your own mother (as God did) wouldn’t you choose the best of the best? Wouldn’t you choose the most holy woman you knew? Of course you would. And that is what God did when he chose Mary. So, since Mary was the chosen one that means she was very special to God. As the Archangel said, Hail Mary! Full of Grace! The Lord is with Thee! Blessed art thou among women and Blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus!

If people don’t think too much about Mary, then okay, but obviously God thought a lot about Mary. So, as do I. I don’t know what else to say about that. It just seems logical and don’t really understand all the fuss about it.

To the Catholics here … I just wanted to add I have learned a lot from you all. Thank you! Again, it feels good to be home.

God Bless!

 

[water]

Welcome to the forums and welcome “Home” :harp:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and faith.