Hail Mary during Mass?

[godisgood77]

Our new Pastor began saying a Hail Mary during the bidding/intercessory prayers. I had never experienced this befor, so I looked in to it further…

Here is what I found…

From the Apostolic Exhortation Marias Cultus of Paul VI, 2/2/1974

1. We have already spoken of the veneration which the Church gives to the Mother of God in the celebration of the sacred liturgy. However, speaking of the other forms of devotion and of the criteria on which they should be based we wish to recall the norm laid down in the Constitution Sacrosanctum concilium. This document, while wholeheartedly approving of the practices of piety of the Christian people, goes on to say: “…it is necessary however that such devotions with consideration for the liturgical seasons should be so arranged as to be in harmony with the sacred liturgy. They should somehow derive their inspiration from it, and because of its pre-eminence they should orient the Christian people towards it.”[93] Although this is a wise and clear rule, its application is not an easy matter, especially in regard to Marian devotions, which are so varied in their formal expressions. What is needed on the part of the leaders of the local communities is effort, pastoral sensitivity and perseverance, while the faithful on their part must show a willingness to accept guidelines and ideas drawn from the true nature of Christian worship; this sometimes makes it necessary to change long-standing customs wherein the real nature of this Christian worship has become somewhat obscured.

In this context we wish to mention two attitudes which in pastoral practice could nullify the norm of the Second Vatican Council. In the first place there are certain persons concerned with the care of souls who scorn, a priori, devotions of piety which, in their correct forms, have been recommended by the magisterium, who leave them aside and in this way create a vacuum which they do not fill. They forget that the Council has said that devotions of piety should harmonize with the liturgy, not be suppressed. Secondly there are those who, without wholesome liturgical and pastoral criteria, mix practices of piety and liturgical acts in hybrid celebrations. It sometimes happens that novenas or similar practices of piety are inserted into the very celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice. This creates the danger that the Lord’s Memorial Rite, instead of being the culmination of the meeting of the Christian community, becomes the occasion, as it were, for devotional practices. For those who act in this way we wish to recall the rule laid down by the Council prescribing that exercises of piety should be harmonized with the liturgy, not merged into it. Wise pastoral action should, on the one hand, point out and emphasize the proper nature of the liturgical acts, while on the other hand it should enhance the value of practices of piety in order to adapt them to the needs of individual communities in the Church and to make them valuable aids to the liturgy.

Second… it appears that in England, the Hail Mary had been inserted in to the Mass during medieval times and became regional customer… However, Holy See sent a letter the Bishops of England indicating that the practice should be gently removed over time.

Based on these two pieces facts, it would appear that my good pastor should not be adding the Hail Mary to the Mass… In light of this, how would you recommend addressing with him.

Many thanks.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Our new Pastor began saying a Hail Mary during the bidding/intercessory prayers. I had never experienced this befor, so I looked in to it further…

Here is what I found…

From the Apostolic Exhortation Marias Cultus of Paul VI, 2/2/1974

1. We have already spoken of the veneration which the Church gives to the Mother of God in the celebration of the sacred liturgy. However, speaking of the other forms of devotion and of the criteria on which they should be based we wish to recall the norm laid down in the Constitution Sacrosanctum concilium. This document, while wholeheartedly approving of the practices of piety of the Christian people, goes on to say: “…it is necessary however that such devotions with consideration for the liturgical seasons should be so arranged as to be in harmony with the sacred liturgy. They should somehow derive their inspiration from it, and because of its pre-eminence they should orient the Christian people towards it.”[93] Although this is a wise and clear rule, its application is not an easy matter, especially in regard to Marian devotions, which are so varied in their formal expressions. What is needed on the part of the leaders of the local communities is effort, pastoral sensitivity and perseverance, while the faithful on their part must show a willingness to accept guidelines and ideas drawn from the true nature of Christian worship; this sometimes makes it necessary to change long-standing customs wherein the real nature of this Christian worship has become somewhat obscured.

In this context we wish to mention two attitudes which in pastoral practice could nullify the norm of the Second Vatican Council. In the first place there are certain persons concerned with the care of souls who scorn, a priori, devotions of piety which, in their correct forms, have been recommended by the magisterium, who leave them aside and in this way create a vacuum which they do not fill. They forget that the Council has said that devotions of piety should harmonize with the liturgy, not be suppressed. Secondly there are those who, without wholesome liturgical and pastoral criteria, mix practices of piety and liturgical acts in hybrid celebrations. It sometimes happens that novenas or similar practices of piety are inserted into the very celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice. This creates the danger that the Lord’s Memorial Rite, instead of being the culmination of the meeting of the Christian community, becomes the occasion, as it were, for devotional practices. For those who act in this way we wish to recall the rule laid down by the Council prescribing that exercises of piety should be harmonized with the liturgy, not merged into it. Wise pastoral action should, on the one hand, point out and emphasize the proper nature of the liturgical acts, while on the other hand it should enhance the value of practices of piety in order to adapt them to the needs of individual communities in the Church and to make them valuable aids to the liturgy.

Second… it appears that in England, the Hail Mary had been inserted in to the Mass during medieval times and became regional customer… However, Holy See sent a letter the Bishops of England indicating that the practice should be gently removed over time.

Based on these two pieces facts, it would appear that my good pastor should not be adding the Hail Mary to the Mass… In light of this, how would you recommend addressing with him.

Many thanks.

hmmm Interesting. personally I would leave it alone. And I say this as someone who regularly encourages people to “go to war” over some abuses. It just does not seem to offend me as much.

We used to have a deacon who would do this before his homilies, asking everyone to join in. I found it mildly annoying but not on the level that I would address it to even a deacon much less a fully ordained Father who’s hands consecrate the Eucharist…

 

[godisgood77]

hmmm Interesting. personally I would leave it alone. And I say this as someone who regularly encourages people to “go to war” over some abuses. It just does not seem to offend me as much.

We used to have a deacon who would do this before his homilies, asking everyone to join in. I found it mildly annoying but not on the level that I would address it to even a deacon much less a fully ordained Father who’s hands consecrate the Eucharist…

Thanks for the reply… I appreciate it.

This is coupled with a number of other personal devotions has introduced…by introduced, I mean made mandatory for both the parish and the school attached.

My family has a vibrant prayer life at home and we are trying to harmonize these new practices with our home prayer life…and it is difficult to do. We are attempting to create a love of prayer, not systematic forced prayer in our children. This is one item on top of the others… This one appears to have clear instruction that states not to do it…

Does that additional color change your opinion at all?

 

[AnnieHT]

Here in England the Hail Mary is always said in all parishes at the conclusion of the bidding prayers.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Thanks for the reply… I appreciate it.

This is coupled with a number of other personal devotions has introduced…by introduced, I mean made mandatory for both the parish and the school attached.

My family has a vibrant prayer life at home and we are trying to harmonize these new practices with our home prayer life…and it is difficult to do. We are attempting to create a love of prayer, not systematic forced prayer in our children. This is one item on top of the others… This one appears to have clear instruction that states not to do it…

Does that additional color change your opinion at all?

No it does not change it. I don’t think anything is “mandatory” and while I sympathize with your position in the home with your family prayer life, if everyone was upset because they could not harmonize things in the liturgy or school with personal teachings and prayers at home, well we would only have a Church of you. But as a Traditional homeschooling Catholic I honestly can understand your frustration. I just don’t think this is what you should waste your bullets on. Honestly if this is your issue then you are quite liturgically blessed…

Last week in the homily our priest said that if St Paul were alive today and had a chance to change what he wrote he would. That scripture should bend to us not us to scripture. Get that? St Paul and by extension the Holy Author of the scriptures made a mistake and would correct it if he had the chance…

I’d kill for a “Hail Mary” instead of that…

 

[godisgood77]

No it does not change it. I don’t think anything is “mandatory” and while I sympathize with your position in the home with your family prayer life, if everyone was upset because they could not harmonize things in the liturgy or school with personal teachings and prayers at home, well we would only have a Church of you. But as a Traditional homeschooling Catholic I honestly can understand your frustration. I just don’t think this is what you should waste your bullets on. Honestly if this is your issue then you are quite liturgically blessed…

Last week in the homily our priest said that if St Paul were alive today and had a chance to change what he wrote he would. That scripture should bend to us not us to scripture. Get that? St Paul and by extension the Holy Author of the scriptures made a mistake and would correct it if he had the chance…

I’d kill for a “Hail Mary” instead of that…

Understand and thx

However, I don’t believe 5 - 12 year olds understand what is mandatory or not in school…nor should we put them in a position to have to with school and parish authority…

Also, not trying to harmonize the Mass with home… Only the personal devotional prayers that are being added… We have no issue with the Liturgy… Only the arbitrary additions

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Understand and thx

However, I don’t believe 5 - 12 year olds understand what is mandatory or not in school…nor should we put them in a position to have to with school and parish authority…

Also, not trying to harmonize the Mass with home… Only he personal devotional prayers that are being added… We have no issue with the Liturgy… Only the arbitrary additions

I remember rote prayers being “mandatory” at the start of every class in school. We took turns leading them. I was not even Catholic and I participated. No harm done. In fact one could argue it made me the Catholic I am today!

 

[pianistclare]

They do this in Ireland and every Irish priest in this Archdiocese does it at the end of the prayer intentions.
It’s a cultural thing.

Doesn’t bother me in the least. If we invoke the Saints in heaven during Mass, Mary qualifies.

 

[godisgood77]

I remember rote prayers being “mandatory” at the start of every class in school. We took turns leading them. I was not even Catholic and I participated. No harm done. In fact one could argue it made me the Catholic I am today!

Got it… Not an issue for you then.

Difference here is that the parents have a vibrant prayer life at home…so there is a significant amount of redundancy… Also, there has been no communication or collaboration with the parents from the school.

I came here to inquire because nine different sets of parents asked me to broach the subject with parish leadership.

Any other opinions on the subject?

 

[SMHW]

Our new Pastor began saying a Hail Mary during the bidding/intercessory prayers. I had never experienced this befor, so I looked in to it further…
.
.
.
Based on these two pieces facts, it would appear that my good pastor should not be adding the Hail Mary to the Mass… In light of this, how would you recommend addressing with him.

Many thanks.

Just out of curiosity… Is your new pastor originally from some other country, for instance, England? In spite of what you quoted, it seems as if the practice of saying a Hail Mary is still common in the British Isles.

Also, I noticed that you used the phrase “bidding prayers” which is not something I usually see in the United States so I’m curious about that usage.

I guess the answers to my questions don’t really matter but they just might give some background to the issue.

 

[godisgood77]

Here in England the Hail Mary is always said in all parishes at the conclusion of the bidding prayers.

Yes, I read about that… I also saw that the head of the Bishop conference asked that it not be done.

 

[godisgood77]

Just out of curiosity… Is your new pastor originally from some other country, for instance, England? In spite of what you quoted, it seems as if the practice of saying a Hail Mary is still common in the British Isles.

Also, I noticed that you used the phrase “bidding prayers” which is not something I usually see in the United States so I’m curious about that usage.

I guess the answers to my questions don’t really matter but they just might give some background to the issue.

I’m in the U.S and the pastor is US grown

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

We say the Hail Mary at the end of Mass, right after the closing prayer.

 

[Irishmom2]

It wouldn’t bother me at all. In fact, I always thought it odd that it is not included.

It is not as if he is inserting some kind of made up or prayer of his own writing after all. Not sure I would say anything in this case.

 

[CatholicHockey7]

hmmm Interesting. personally I would leave it alone. And I say this as someone who regularly encourages people to “go to war” over some abuses. It just does not seem to offend me as much.

We used to have a deacon who would do this before his homilies, asking everyone to join in. I found it mildly annoying but not on the level that I would address it to even a deacon much less a fully ordained Father who’s hands consecrate the Eucharist…

I’ve heard that one of our recent popes (either St. John Paul the Great or Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI) recommended all parishes include a prayer at every Mass honoring our Blessed Mother and asking for her intercession. The timing may not be appropriate, but the intention would certainly be in keeping with this recommendation.

 

[ServusHumilis]

If it’s not found in the Missal it shouldn’t be recited during Mass. Say the black, do the red.

 

[LongingSoul]

Here in England the Hail Mary is always said in all parishes at the conclusion of the bidding prayers.

I’ve encountered it a lot here in Australia as well over the last few years. The Nigerian priests seem to have introduced it. We have loads of Nigerians Priests here and they are very orthodox.

 

[simpleas]

This sounds very strange to me as I’ve always known the Hail Mary to be said after the bidding prayers. Mary would be honored at Mass, she is the mother of God after all…

 

[johnnyc176]

If it’s not found in the Missal it shouldn’t be recited during Mass. Say the black, do the red.

My experience has been that the Hail Mary, when said during Mass, was inserted as part of the Prayers of the Faithful which do change from week to week. It is also at this time that a prayer for priests has been said.

 

[LongingSoul]

If it’s not found in the Missal it shouldn’t be recited during Mass. Say the black, do the red.

When the Missal has been updated over time, it is often to formally include practices that have arisen naturally among the faithful and are discerned by the Church to have been godly.