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justasking4
Guest
I guess we can dismiss these Oral Traditions as inspired-inerrant. Correct?The Jews had Oral Traditions, too. They certainly weren’t Sola Torah.
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J
justasking4
Guest
He should be dismissed outright as a deceiver and he really is no catholic.
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Angels_Unaware
Guest
Well that would be a question for the Church, since the Church determines what is inspired and inerrant. Correct?
Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. 2 Thessalonians 2:14.
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
The OT began as Oral Tradition.
The NT writers mentioned some of these Oral Traditions as though they were inspired-inerrant. Some were little-t traditions that the Pharisees forced upon the people as though they were Sacred Tradition.
G
guanophore
Guest
Heb 12:1
“…Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses…”
How do you imagine that anyone can function as a witness when they dont’ know what is going on?
How did Samuel know that Saul and his sons would be with him the next day, if he did not know what was going on?
How did Moses and Elijah talk to Jesus about what was going to happen if they did not know what was going on?
The saints can know whatever God wants them to know, just like we can. They don’t stop being humans after they die, or stop having access to the Revelation of God after they leave this world.
Well, speak for yourself! Catholics have been having them for 2000 years!
This is quite true. We only pray to those in Christ, who are alive forevermore.
Well, stick to what you know, ja4. But don’t try to take away from us the great gifts God has given to us through His Church, the Body of Christ. If you wish to limit your experience with God and his Revelation, it is your perogative to do so. What is so puzzling is that you seem to get so bent out of shape by the fact that others have a different experience. What prevents you from just letting go, and giving other people permission to be different? What drives all this intolerance?
I thought you had already done that?
Oh, wait…you don’t believe they exist, so there is nothing to dismiss!
I agree he is no Catholic, but I do think he has real communication with the otherworldly.
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hays1122
Guest
I have seen Jonathan Edwards on TV. He used to have his own show,“Crossing Over”. He’s a psychic medium who speaks to those who have gone to the “other side”. He has written books on this topic also.
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hays1122
Guest
He wrote a book of prayer using the Rosary.
The book is titled,“Practical Praying”
“Using the Rosary to Enhance your Life.”
I’ll find out if it’s has that Catholic stamp of approval and let you know.
The description reads,“Section I deals with John’s overview of the process of prayer, his thoughts about writing on this subject matter, and the history of the rosary as authorized by the Catholic Church.”
“as authorized by the catholic church” might just mean he used information that’s authorized. Not necessarily his book as being authorized.
It’s interesting though. He’s either just found Catholicism or has he always been Catholic. I never knew that about him.
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hays1122
Guest
You explain this very well. If we believe that people that die are alive in Christ then it can’t be said that we pray to the dead.Heb 12:1
“…Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses…”
How do you imagine that anyone can function as a witness when they dont’ know what is going on?
How did Samuel know that Saul and his sons would be with him the next day, if he did not know what was going on?
How did Moses and Elijah talk to Jesus about what was going to happen if they did not know what was going on?
The saints can know whatever God wants them to know, just like we can. They don’t stop being humans after they die, or stop having access to the Revelation of God after they leave this world.
Well, speak for yourself! Catholics have been having them for 2000 years!
This is quite true. We only pray to those in Christ, who are alive forevermore.
Well, stick to what you know, ja4. But don’t try to take away from us the great gifts God has given to us through His Church, the Body of Christ. If you wish to limit your experience with God and his Revelation, it is your perogative to do so. What is so puzzling is that you seem to get so bent out of shape by the fact that others have a different experience. What prevents you from just letting go, and giving other people permission to be different? What drives all this intolerance?
I thought you had already done that?
Oh, wait…you don’t believe they exist, so there is nothing to dismiss!
I agree he is no Catholic, but I do think he has real communication with the otherworldly.
Plus I have read about" the Catacomb of St. Sabastiano: Fragments of a wall plaster from the triclia with
numerous graffiti that ask for the prayers of the martyred apostles, Peter and Paul."
This is proof that early Christians prayed to those who have gone on to “the next level”.
People in heaven are alive.
H
Henning
Guest
from Wikipedia
"The only son of an Irish-American policeman and an Italian-American working mother,[2] Edward was raised Roman Catholic. Although Edward later stopped practicing that faith, he has said he never stopped feeling connected to God and is still closely connected to his Catholic roots.[1] Edward once said, “This is something that is driven by a belief in God. It’s the energy from that force that I think allows us to create this energy.”[3]
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Angels_Unaware
Guest
I find John Edwards using the rosary to be a bit disturbing. I don’t know how you can meditate on the birth, death, and resurrection of the Lord and its implications and not defend the Catholic faith. He does not practice or defend the Catholic faith, or believe that Jesus is the only bridge between God and man.
Cleary, there are Marian abuses. No doubt about it. There is both exagerrated prejudice toward Mary and abuses, like this.
Cleary, there are Marian abuses. No doubt about it. There is both exagerrated prejudice toward Mary and abuses, like this.
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guanophore
Guest
We believe this because this is what was passed on to us in Sacred Tradition from the Apostles. However, the Catcombs are a helpful testimony.
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Lampo
Guest
“If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together” (1 Cor. 12:26).
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justasking4
Guest
True. But today that would more difficult since there are other churches involved.
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justasking4
Guest
Your confused here. Hebrews 12:1 is a figure of speech.
Saul did something here that was forbidden and in this case the Lord allowed Samuel to appear to him. We don’t know how Samuel got this knowledge. Either he had a constant awareness of the events in this world or the Lord gave it to him for this we don’t know. Would you use this event that was done by illegal means as a basis for praying to the deceased?
Again this is not a prayer but an actual real historical meeting with the Lord Jesus. It is quite an exceptional event and was never used as a basis or exhortation to pray to the dead.
We really don’t know that with certainty. Even if true that still does not mean you should pray to them. The only One we are to pray to is God.
Do you believe all these people who have claimed to talk to Jesus or Mary over the centuries?
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Rachel_Malloy
Guest
Let’s remember the topic of the thread.
God bless-
Rachel
God bless-
Rachel
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Angels_Unaware
Guest
Saint Nicetas of Remesiana (400 AD) does not agree.
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justasking4
Guest
And who is Saint Nicetas of Remesiana?
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Lampo
Guest
Check him out here.
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guanophore
Guest
Is that right? where does it say that?
Why doesn’t the writer say “since we are surrounded, as if there could be a great cloud…” or something like that which might indicate a figure of speech? Why does the writer say “we are surrounded” so forthrightly?
This is absolutely beside the point.
It is clear that God can do whatever He wants, whether men disobey Him, or not.
This is an amazing thing for you to say. Samuel is a great prophet of God. How do you imagine that he will learn the Truth anywhere but from God? I just read where you said yourself that the testimony of devils should be disregarded, so where does that leave us?
I is a marvel to me that something true can be revealed in the Word of God, and you can still say “we don’t know”.
Nope. I use it to demonstrate that the Word of God indicates that those who have left this world can be present to it, and that they can know what is going on here, and speak to us about it.
When Catholics use the phrase "praying to saints’ this is what we are talking about. A conversation with one who is not present in the flesh.
Jesus demonstrated that this is possible, and affirmed it to His Apostles by making them present when it occured.
Does every example of Christ set for you need to com ein the form of “an exhortation”?
As I have said, Catholics do know, but since you refuse this knowledge, it would be best if you refrained from this kind of pious devotion.
Definitely not.
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Angels_Unaware
Guest
Also here.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicetas_of_Remesiana
Notice he is an orthodox Christian
and is a contemporary of the Church at the time the canon was
being closed.
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