Hair shirts...?

[sea_star]

Yeah, pentacostbaby, I want so much to fast. I’m failing miserabley in my attempts. Even starting small like no desserts. Okay I made it maybe a week and half with no sweets/desserts. Then I went to this carnival with the kids and they sold fresh homemade apple pie slices…(Sigh). I’ve started again, but if I can’t even give up excesses, I begin to worry. It was so natural to fast twice a week on bread and water when I was first converted. That was almost 20 years ago. I want to do that, at least, but I also want to do penance. I have a pretty nasty past to atone for, not to mention it’s more powerful than praying and fasting alone. Not to mention Mary has asked this of us. If I can mortify my flesh just a little with penance, perhaps I will gain the grace to fast again too.
Pray for me, please.
jofa

I need to do penance.

I know you want to mortify your flesh by using a hair shirt, but does it have to be a hair shirt ?(if you can’t find one)—nothing dangerous or blood-letting, but simple, like kneeling to pray on a hard floor with arms out-stretched----or washing your hair out with cold, cold water when you have to rinse it ( i know— silly but it is mortifying )

I could give you a list, but I won’t because I might be criticized for giving you advice you didn’t ask for:blush: I am impressed that you* want *to do penance—I love to meet generous souls, because frankly I am not. The best penance for me to do, is just to do what I have to do ( at work and home) promptly, efficiently, and cheerfully—I will likely be spending a long time trying to do that right.

Good luck on your penance and when you do your penance think of me, so that I will get courage to do penance too (I will take my advice, and anybody else’s )

 

[jofa]

I’m ashamed to say I failed miserabley at the cold cold water in the shower thing. I tried it a while ago (tried to last only 10 seconds) but I was so shocked and tormented that I couldn’t even count. I estimate that I lasted maybe 5 seconds! I guess the hairshirt idea seems more bearable.
God Bless - let’s pray for eachother!

 

[glenaitken]

Perhaps I’m nuts, but I’m trying to acquire a hair shirt (traditional goat hair) and I can’t find one to purchase on the internet…There’s one site that sells a sack cloth shirt for penance but it’s $100.00! I don’t sew, and wouldn’t know how to use goat hair anyway. Any ideas for this wanna be penitent? (P.S.: yes I have many flaws that need addressing but as I seem to be losing this battle I’m thinking that a bit of mortification might help in my fight to vanquish my flesh).
God Bless,
jofa

listen, i’ve been wearing a hair shirt since i hit puberty (actually just shaved it off- too hot out), and i can tell you it doesn’t do much more than aggrivate you to no end. try to vanquich flesh through acts of charity- you get more grace from them and you end up smelling better. for some reason, i am assuming that you are a female (i don’t know why), if that it true, try going a few months without shaving your legs and underarms, then make a decicion on the $100 hair shirt. if you’re male, you may just have to wait a few more years until the good Lord “Blesses” you with the grace of a hair shirt

 

[Andruschak]

Perhaps I’m nuts, but I’m trying to acquire a hair shirt (traditional goat hair) and I can’t find one to purchase on the internet…There’s one site that sells a sack cloth shirt for penance but it’s $100.00! I don’t sew, and wouldn’t know how to use goat hair anyway. Any ideas for this wanna be penitent? (P.S.: yes I have many flaws that need addressing but as I seem to be losing this battle I’m thinking that a bit of mortification might help in my fight to vanquish my flesh).
God Bless,
jofa

By any chance, were you referring to this web site?

cilice.co.uk/

As a matter of fact, I do wear a hair shirt at times, or a cilice…

BUT BUT BUT:tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk:

Only with permission of my Spiritual Director

Only at home, to avoid spiritual pride

(Hey everyone! See what I am wearing? Are you impressed?)

Only for a limited time from midnight (when I get home from work) to 2 PM (when I go to bed). Again, to avoid spiritual pride.

Penance done to impress others is its own reward. By wearing it only at home, only my cats can see what I am doing, and the cats are NOT impressed:dts:

For that matter, I doubt if any cat was impressed by St. Francis of Assisi, no matter what his reputation with other animals was.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Just my opinion, but don’t you think it would be more sensible to recover fully from your Mono before attempting any extraordinary penances? With Mono you need to rest, and eat well. Mono can recur (my son had it twice). Perhaps the Lord wants you to get fully healthy, that might be why you are having a difficult time with your penances. We are not encouraged to fast and do extraordinary penances if we could endanger our health.

 

[jofa]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I will definately wait 'til my doctor says I’m healthy, and I’ll speak with a spiritual director too. I love the idea of only doing the hairshirt (homemade - not $100) at home and for limited times, etc. to help avoid spiritual pride. It’s always been worrisome to me that I fall into spiritual pride because it has happened. God willing He will continue to humble me. Thanks again everyone - I’m going to take it up with a priest I’ve found… I’ll obey his direction. God’s will, not mine, be done!
God Bless!

 

[bpbasilphx]

If you can’t handle the little irritations that your day brings, how will you be able to handle a voluntary and totally unnecessary act of asceticism such as a hair shirt?

 

[jofa]

That’s what I’m saying! I need spiritual direction to get me on the right road! How can we give up big sins when we can’t stop committing small ones? If God wants us to stop big sins, and we are willing and pray a lot, recieve the sacraments a lot, He can get us there. Same with penance. If God wills it for me, I’ll be able to do it in time. I won’t give up because I’m weak right now. For “in my weaknes God is strong”. Jesus, I trust in you!
God Bless!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Your focus should be on love, before penance, religious observances, etc.

You can do all sort of server penances, and go to Mass daily, but without love, they will be meaningless and could even turn you into a cold abusive religious fanatic.

You state that the priest around you are too modernist. Did you ever consider that perhaps, God put those priest around you, help you?

I would strongly advise you to give your ideas over to Christ and allow Him to lead you to the priest that will instruct you best. If you begin to disagree with the advice the priest gives you, remember, you’ll be disagreeing with Jesus, because he brought that priest to you.

Also, I think you may be getting yourself into scrupulosity, which can often times be more harmful to the the Body of Christ, than sin itself.

Again, pray for a spiritual direction and when Christ provides you with it, heed to the instruction of that adviser.

God Bless
Jim

 

[JMJ_coder]

and i can tell you it doesn’t do much more than aggrivate you to no end.

Ummm, what do you honestly think a hair shirt is for? The aggravating and irritable effects is why it is used. It is meant to mortify and subdue our passions and desire for earthly comfort.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Your focus should be on love, before penance, religious observances, etc.

You can do all sort of server penances, and go to Mass daily, but without love, they will be meaningless and could even turn you into a cold abusive religious fanatic.

Penances are meant to lead us toward love and God. If penance (or any other religious act) does not have the goal of leading us to greater union with God, then it is fruitless at best.

One of the primary purposes of penance is to mortify the flesh. It is meant to turn us away from ourselves, where we and our comfort and desires are the center of existence, and turn us to gaze at God, Who is the ultimate center of existence. And when we do that, we also are turned toward the rest of mankind, which is mystically connected to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Just my opinion, but don’t you think it would be more sensible to recover fully from your Mono before attempting any extraordinary penances? With Mono you need to rest, and eat well. Mono can recur (my son had it twice). Perhaps the Lord wants you to get fully healthy, that might be why you are having a difficult time with your penances. We are not encouraged to fast and do extraordinary penances if we could endanger our health.

There are a lot of penances that can be done that are in no way considered ‘extraordinary’. Even with fasting during an illness. While fasting down to one meal of bread and water would probably not be a wise choice for one with an illness, if it is o.k. with the doctor one could easily still eat three hearty meals a day, but refrain from snacking in between.

Also, fasting from food is not the only form of fasting. One can fast from nearly anything. Anything that is a legitimate good could be sacrificed and offered up as penance. Fast from television and read a good book. Fast from desserts, or from going bowling. Fast from the natural inclination to defend and justify yourself in the eyes of man. Fast from vanity by wearing simple - quite possibly unfashionable - clothing

There are two other general forms of penance besides fasting - prayer and almsgiving. You can donate to the poor or volunteer. Prayer is a very good form of penance. Offer your daily Mass up as a penance. Say an extra rosary.

And also, offer everything up as a penance. You don’t have to look far beyond the ordinary day-to-day duties to find ample fodder for penance. Follow the little way of Saint Therese where you do everything, no matter how little, with great love for God.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Penances are meant to lead us toward love and God. If penance (or any other religious act) does not have the goal of leading us to greater union with God, then it is fruitless at best.

No, penances are meant to strengthen our fortitude in overcoming temptations.

God’s draws us to Himself through grace. We merely need to be open to His grace, which comes through love.

Many who do such severe penances, do so because they feel unworthy to be loved by God. Of course they very often view others as even less worthy than themselves and treat them accordingly.

Of course God loves us, irrespective of our worth.

We don’t need to walk on glass to receive God’s love.

Jim

 

[JMJ_coder]

No, penances are meant to strengthen our fortitude in overcoming temptations.

God’s draws us to Himself through grace. We merely need to be open to His grace, which comes through love.

Many who do such severe penances, do so because they feel unworthy to be loved by God. Of course they very often view others as even less worthy than themselves and treat them accordingly.

Of course God loves us, irrespective of our worth.

We don’t need to walk on glass to receive God’s love.

Jim

That is one purpose of penance. But it isn’t the only purpose. Like I have said, it is also to subdue the flesh, and also for purification of our souls and reparation for our sins (among other purposes).

We must be on guard against an attempt to remove penance and sacrifice in a misguided attempt to ‘come into the 21st century’ or a thought of ‘all we need is love’ without anything else.

Some may do severe penances (of course we could discuss as to what we mean by ‘severe penances’), out of some misguidance, but it should be assumed (without evidence to the contrary) that they are doing it to grow in the spiritual life. Many of the greatest Saints have done great penances, and I don’t think they did it out of any kind of mental or emotional deficiencies.

 

[JMJ_coder]

A couple of good recent papal documents on penance:

Paenitentiam Agere - Pope Blessed John XXIII

Paenitemini - Pope Paul VI

Reconciliatio et Paenitentia - Pope John Paul II

 

[jofa]

To anyone who finds penance to be too “medieval” or unneccesary, I recommend two inspiring books:
*St. Anthony of the Desert *- by St. Athanasius (short easy read)
The Great Magdalens - by Msgr. Hugh Francis Blunt (longer but still easy)
If that doesn’t teach you about the beauty of penance (in all it’s forms) than I don’t know what would. These are “WOW” books.

Keep in mind, everybody, that from Medjugorje Mary told us to PRAY, FAST, and do PENANCE. There were conversion 101’s for her…So, do we obey our Mother?

God Bless (and stop arguing everybody!!!)

 

[daughterofmary]

I would find a priest that I trusted (no matter the distance) and ask him for spiritual direction. Then I would seek permission to wear the hair shirt. It* is* considered to be an extraordinary penance, even by religious. Then, if he says yes and you need to find one, I would request that he could perhaps help you. A place to look it to write an OCD 1990 Constitution Carmelite monastery. I believe if a priest writes and requests this of the Mother Prioress she might be able to help him to get one for you.

A cilice can currently be found on ebay for $70.00. Please request permission to use it. It can be very spiritually damaging not to.