Haiti Earthquake: Did God send it?

[Bookcat]

Here is a couple of snippets from Pope Benedict XVI’s Encyclical Deus Charitas Est which shows on the one hand Christians in humility know that they do not see whole of the universe …the whole of reality…and on the other that we know God…we know and trust him …

"Often we cannot understand why God refrains from intervening. Yet he does not prevent us from crying out, like Jesus on the Cross: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mt 27:46). We should continue asking this question in prayerful dialogue before his face: “Lord, holy and true, how long will it be?” (Rev 6:10). It is Saint Augustine who gives us faith’s answer to our sufferings: “Si comprehendis, non est Deus”—”if you understand him, he is not God.” [35] Our protest is not meant to challenge God, or to suggest that error, weakness or indifference can be found in him. For the believer, it is impossible to imagine that God is powerless or that “perhaps he is asleep” (cf. 1 Kg 18:27). Instead, our crying out is, as it was for Jesus on the Cross, the deepest and most radical way of affirming our faith in his sovereign power. Even in their bewilderment and failure to understand the world around them, Christians continue to believe in the “goodness and loving kindness of God” (Tit 3:4). Immersed like everyone else in the dramatic complexity of historical events, they remain unshakably certain that God is our Father and loves us, even when his silence remains incomprehensible.

1. Faith, hope and charity go together. Hope is practised through the virtue of patience, which continues to do good even in the face of apparent failure, and through the virtue of humility, which accepts God’s mystery and trusts him even at times of darkness. Faith tells us that God has given his Son for our sakes and gives us the victorious certainty that it is really true: God is love! It thus transforms our impatience and our doubts into the sure hope that God holds the world in his hands and that, as the dramatic imagery of the end of the Book of Revelation points out, in spite of all darkness he ultimately triumphs in glory. Faith, which sees the love of God revealed in the pierced heart of Jesus on the Cross, gives rise to love. Love is the light—and in the end, the only light—that can always illuminate a world grown dim and give us the courage needed to keep living and working. Love is possible, and we are able to practise it because we are created in the image of God."

---

“Even in their bewilderment and failure to understand the world around them, Christians continue to believe in the “goodness and loving kindness of God” (Tit 3:4). Immersed like everyone else in the dramatic complexity of historical events, they remain unshakably certain that God is our Father and loves us”

and myself–as a Christian …knowing God …knowing him especially as he is revealed in Jesus of Nazareth …I can make this response. I can have this Hope in me…this trust and Faith…

 

[itinerant1]

As St. Augustine said “This world is a small scale hell.” And indeed, we know from the Gospel of John that Satan, not God, is the Lord of this World. What kind of God but a devil could have institutes the evil conditions which prevail, which St. Thomas More sums up as a “vale of tears, misery, labour and want”? In its very essence this world is sin and suffering. We cannot attribute anything in it to God, but everything to the sin of Adam, which is a metaphoric way of saying, the sin which is inherent in existence itself.

Everything in the world is sin and evil? Hmmm! Sounds rather Manichean of you. If the world is naught but evil, why then does John say “God so loved the world…”?

You stated “In its very essence this world is sin and suffering. We cannot attribute anything in it to God…” That’s not the Biblical view and its not the Catholic view either. Your theology is rank, as I pointed out in previous posts, but you chose to put a spin on the facts presented.

How did you acquire such a jaded outlook on God’s creation?

 

[itinerant1]

Everything comes from God including earthquakes, sunny days, and Sometimes bad things happen to good people and it doesn’t mean that God is punishing people.

God bless!!!

I tend to think that Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses knocking on my door at 7:00 a.m. Saturday mornings is God punishing me.

 

[Qoeleth]

Everything in the world is sin and evil? Hmmm! Sounds rather Manichean of you. If the world is naught but evil, why then does John say “God so loved the world…”?

You stated “In its very essence this world is sin and suffering. We cannot attribute anything in it to God…” That’s not the Biblical view and its not the Catholic view either. Your theology is rank, as I pointed out in previous posts, but you chose to put a spin on the facts presented.

How did you acquire such a jaded outlook on God’s creation?

I know my theology is not 100% orthodox, but you will find the same theology in a prayer like the Salve Regina (“To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve, to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears…After this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus”). Another classic is John Comenius’ “The Labyrinth of the Heart and the Paradise of the Heart.” Then of course, there is Ecclesiastes, and the Gospel and Letters of John, and, philosophically, in the writings of Schopenhauer.

In a lot of works of early and medieval Christian writings, there are strong echos of an approach similar to Manichean dualism (spiritual=good, material= evil, present life= suffering, injustice, Eternal life= peace, justice).

 

[itinerant1]

I know my theology is not 100% orthodox, but you will find the same theology in a prayer like the Salve Regina (“To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve, to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vally of tears…After this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of they thy womb, Jesus”). Another classic is John Comenius’ “The Labyrinth of the Heart and the Paradise of the Heart.” Then of course, there is Ecclesiastes, and the Gospel and Letters of John, and, philosophically, in the writings of Schopenhauer. Even in the Koran, we are told “the life of this world is but a fleeting vanity.”

In a lot of works of early and medieval Christian writings, there are strong echos of an approach similar to Manichean dualism (spiritual=good, material= evil, present life= suffering, injustice, Eternal life= peace, justice).

You still present yourself as a raging Pessimist at heart. An overbearing sense of sin and evil blots out the joy of the Lord. I suspect the Canticle of Brother Sun and Sister Moon does not fit easily into your world-view.

Canticle of Brother Sun and Sister Moon of St. Francis of Assisi
**
****Most High, all-powerful, all-good Lord, All praise is Yours, all glory, all honour and all blessings.

To you alone, Most High, do they belong, and no mortal lips are worthy to pronounce Your Name.

Praised be You my Lord with all Your creatures,
especially Sir Brother Sun,
Who is the day through whom You give us light.
And he is beautiful and radiant with great splendour,
Of You Most High, he bears the likeness.

Praised be You, my Lord, through Sister Moon and the stars,
In the heavens you have made them bright, precious and fair.

Praised be You, my Lord, through Brothers Wind and Air,
And fair and stormy, all weather’s moods,
by which You cherish all that You have made.

Praised be You my Lord through Sister Water,
So useful, humble, precious and pure.

Praised be You my Lord through Brother Fire,
through whom You light the night and he is beautiful and playful and robust and strong.

Praised be You my Lord through our Sister,
Mother Earth
who sustains and governs us,
producing varied fruits with coloured flowers and herbs.
Praise be You my Lord through those who grant pardon for love of You and bear sickness and trial.

Blessed are those who endure in peace, By You Most High, they will be crowned.

Praised be You, my Lord through Sister Death,
from whom no-one living can escape. Woe to those who die in mortal sin! Blessed are they She finds doing Your Will.

No second death can do them harm. Praise and bless my Lord and give Him thanks,
And serve Him with great humility.**

 

[itinerant1]

You cited Schopenhauer…the father of modern pessimism. The man was deeply neurotic. He hated all women with passion, especially his mother. And Schopenhauer always slept with two loaded revolvers at his side. Not a happy camper, was he.

 

[Bookcat]

Here is a couple of snippets from Pope Benedict XVI’s Encyclical Deus Charitas Est which shows on the one hand Christians in humility know that they do not see whole of the universe …the whole of reality…and on the other that we know God…we know and trust him …

"Often we cannot understand why God refrains from intervening. Yet he does not prevent us from crying out, like Jesus on the Cross: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mt 27:46). We should continue asking this question in prayerful dialogue before his face: “Lord, holy and true, how long will it be?” (Rev 6:10). It is Saint Augustine who gives us faith’s answer to our sufferings: “Si comprehendis, non est Deus”—”if you understand him, he is not God.” [35] Our protest is not meant to challenge God, or to suggest that error, weakness or indifference can be found in him. For the believer, it is impossible to imagine that God is powerless or that “perhaps he is asleep” (cf. 1 Kg 18:27). Instead, our crying out is, as it was for Jesus on the Cross, the deepest and most radical way of affirming our faith in his sovereign power. Even in their bewilderment and failure to understand the world around them, Christians continue to believe in the “goodness and loving kindness of God” (Tit 3:4). Immersed like everyone else in the dramatic complexity of historical events, they remain unshakably certain that God is our Father and loves us, even when his silence remains incomprehensible.

1. Faith, hope and charity go together. Hope is practised through the virtue of patience, which continues to do good even in the face of apparent failure, and through the virtue of humility, which accepts God’s mystery and trusts him even at times of darkness. Faith tells us that God has given his Son for our sakes and gives us the victorious certainty that it is really true: God is love! It thus transforms our impatience and our doubts into the sure hope that God holds the world in his hands and that, as the dramatic imagery of the end of the Book of Revelation points out, in spite of all darkness he ultimately triumphs in glory. Faith, which sees the love of God revealed in the pierced heart of Jesus on the Cross, gives rise to love. Love is the light—and in the end, the only light—that can always illuminate a world grown dim and give us the courage needed to keep living and working. Love is possible, and we are able to practise it because we are created in the image of God."

---

“Even in their bewilderment and failure to understand the world around them, Christians continue to believe in the “goodness and loving kindness of God” (Tit 3:4). Immersed like everyone else in the dramatic complexity of historical events, they remain unshakably certain that God is our Father and loves us”

and myself–as a Christian …knowing God …knowing him especially as he is revealed in Jesus of Nazareth …I can make this response. I can have this Hope in me…this trust and Faith…

 

[Qoeleth]

You still present yourself as a raging Pessimist at heart. An overbearing sense of sin and evil blots out the joy of the Lord. I suspect the Canticle of Brother Sun and Sister Moon does not fit easily into your world-view.

Canticle of Brother Sun and Sister Moon of St. Francis of Assisi
**
****Most High, all-powerful, all-good Lord, All praise is Yours, all glory, all honour and all blessings.

To you alone, Most High, do they belong, and no mortal lips are worthy to pronounce Your Name.

Praised be You my Lord with all Your creatures,
especially Sir Brother Sun,
Who is the day through whom You give us light.
And he is beautiful and radiant with great splendour,
Of You Most High, he bears the likeness.

Praised be You, my Lord, through Sister Moon and the stars,
In the heavens you have made them bright, precious and fair.

Praised be You, my Lord, through Brothers Wind and Air,
And fair and stormy, all weather’s moods,
by which You cherish all that You have made.

Praised be You my Lord through Sister Water,
So useful, humble, precious and pure.

Praised be You my Lord through Brother Fire,
through whom You light the night and he is beautiful and playful and robust and strong.

Praised be You my Lord through our Sister,
Mother Earth
who sustains and governs us,
producing varied fruits with coloured flowers and herbs.
Praise be You my Lord through those who grant pardon for love of You and bear sickness and trial.

Blessed are those who endure in peace, By You Most High, they will be crowned.

Praised be You, my Lord through Sister Death,
from whom no-one living can escape. Woe to those who die in mortal sin! Blessed are they She finds doing Your Will.

No second death can do them harm. Praise and bless my Lord and give Him thanks,
And serve Him with great humility.**

I suspect the following from St. Thomas More would not sit easily with your world-view “God wants us always to live in this world as if we are weary of it.”

Both traditions exist within Christian thought.

Faith in God is the best answer to understanding these things.

BUT, we shouldn’t blame God for natural disasters, because if we do, it can become for some people very difficult to love Him.

 

[itinerant1]

I suspect the following from St. Thomas More would not sit easily with your world-view “God wants us always to live in this world as if we are wear of it.”

Both traditions exist within Christian thought.

These might appear like opposing traditions to one who views things in life as either black or white, but the fact is they are not traditions at all. It’s a matter of having a balanced and sane view of the world. Life is joyous and life is tragic, and the truly sane person, says G.K. Chesterton, has tragedy in his heart and comedy in his head.

The atheist philosopher, Frederick Nietzsche issued a stunning and valid criticism of Christians when he said, “Sir, your people don’t look redeemed.”

Nothing discredits the Faith more in the eyes of unbelievers than does gloomy and pessimistic Christians. Sir Thomas More’s poetry reveals a man truly alive to the wonders of this life.

 

[itinerant1]

Haiti Earthquake: Did God send it? If you ask Pat Robertson, he will say “yes”. Robertson recklessly claimed that God sent the 7.0 earthquake because the Haitians made a pact with the devil. Supposedly, there was a pact made when the Haitians were slaves in the 1800’s and most violently defeated of their French masters.

Hmmm! This is the year 2010. If God wanted to punish the Haitians for making a pact with the devil, he seems to have missed the culprits by a couple of centuries. Better timing next time, God.

For millenniums, the theology of Deuteronomy has been misapplied. Dt teaches that God rewards the righteous with prosperity and punishes the wicked with adversity. It does sound simple. The Haitians were hit with an earthquake, therefore they are being punished for their wickedness. This may sound fine to people like Pat Robertson, but it is a misapplication of OT theology of retribution.

The OT also deals with questions as to why the righteous suffer or have their life cut short; and why the wicked often seem to prosper. We learn those texts that DT cannot be confidently applied to individual cases. Collectively, all evil and suffering is due to human malice, but their is no rule of thumb covering particular situations or individuals. For one reason, the mysteries of evil remain mysteries to the human mind.

As the Book of Job progresses, we see that Job and his friends find no satisfactory answer to Job’s suffering. The lesson of the Book of Job is that human wisdom and human reason are bankrupt when it comes to explaining evil.

But there is still a kind of smug prosperity with Robertson when he denies the inexplicable nature of the problems of evil. If all is well with him, then if all is not well with others, then it must be their fault.

It seems rather peculiar that Robertson would claim to know why the Haitians are suffering when God did not even explain to Job why he had to suffer.

Job never did understand his suffering, but he was taught, instead, to accept the world as it is, and from this to also accept God as he is. In other words, the only answer for now is to have faith. If Pat Robertson would learn a lesson from Job, then he might not make so many ridiculous statements.

 

[Qoeleth]

These might appear like opposing traditions to one who views things in life as either black or white, but the fact is they are not traditions at all. It’s a matter of having a balanced and sane view of the world. Life is joyous and life is tragic, and the truly sane person, says G.K. Chesterton, has tragedy in his heart and comedy in his head.

The atheist philosopher, Frederick Nietzsche issued a stunning and valid criticism of Christians when he said, “Sir, your people don’t look redeemed.”

Nothing discredits the Faith more in the eyes of unbelievers than does gloomy and pessimistic Christians. Sir Thomas More’s poetry reveals a man truly alive to the wonders of this life.

"A good name is better than fine perfume,
and the day of death better than the day of birth.
It is better to go to a house of mourning
than to go to a house of feasting,
for death is the destiny of every man;
the living should take this to heart.

Sorrow is better than laughter,
because a sad face is good for the heart.

The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,
but the heart of fools is in the house of laughter."
Ecclesiastes 7

“Blessed are those who mourn now, for they shall be comforted…
But alas for those laugh now, for they shall weep and mourn.”

 

[portarica]

Haiti Earthquake: Did God send it? If you ask Pat Robertson, he will say “yes”. Robertson recklessly claimed that God sent the 7.0 earthquake because the Haitians made a pact with the devil. Supposedly, there was a pact made when the Haitians were slaves in the 1800’s and most violently defeated of their French masters.

Hmmm! This is the year 2010. If God wanted to punish the Haitians for making a pact with the devil, he seems to have missed the culprits by a couple of centuries. Better timing next time, God.

Remember, God’s delays are not God’s denials!

Peace

 

[Bookcat]

Remember, God’s delays are not God’s denials!

Peace

this is not the response to give…

Rev. Robertson’s is not a Catholic and his response was not the Catholic one…

look rather to what Pope Benedict XVI’ response…

(i am not saying that Rev. Robertson is not giving aid too…but you do NOT find such an argument from the Catholic Church)

Earthquakes happen from the shift of plates in the earth… we need to give compassion not wild conjectures!

 

[Bookcat]

Here is a couple of snippets from Pope Benedict XVI’s Encyclical Deus Charitas Est which shows on the one hand Christians in humility know that they do not see whole of the universe …the whole of reality…and on the other that we know God…we know and trust him …

"Often we cannot understand why God refrains from intervening. Yet he does not prevent us from crying out, like Jesus on the Cross: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mt 27:46). We should continue asking this question in prayerful dialogue before his face: “Lord, holy and true, how long will it be?” (Rev 6:10). It is Saint Augustine who gives us faith’s answer to our sufferings: “Si comprehendis, non est Deus”—”if you understand him, he is not God.” [35] Our protest is not meant to challenge God, or to suggest that error, weakness or indifference can be found in him. For the believer, it is impossible to imagine that God is powerless or that “perhaps he is asleep” (cf. 1 Kg 18:27). Instead, our crying out is, as it was for Jesus on the Cross, the deepest and most radical way of affirming our faith in his sovereign power. Even in their bewilderment and failure to understand the world around them, Christians continue to believe in the “goodness and loving kindness of God” (Tit 3:4). Immersed like everyone else in the dramatic complexity of historical events, they remain unshakably certain that God is our Father and loves us, even when his silence remains incomprehensible.

1. Faith, hope and charity go together. Hope is practised through the virtue of patience, which continues to do good even in the face of apparent failure, and through the virtue of humility, which accepts God’s mystery and trusts him even at times of darkness. Faith tells us that God has given his Son for our sakes and gives us the victorious certainty that it is really true: God is love! It thus transforms our impatience and our doubts into the sure hope that God holds the world in his hands and that, as the dramatic imagery of the end of the Book of Revelation points out, in spite of all darkness he ultimately triumphs in glory. Faith, which sees the love of God revealed in the pierced heart of Jesus on the Cross, gives rise to love. Love is the light—and in the end, the only light—that can always illuminate a world grown dim and give us the courage needed to keep living and working. Love is possible, and we are able to practise it because we are created in the image of God."

---

“Even in their bewilderment and failure to understand the world around them, Christians continue to believe in the “goodness and loving kindness of God” (Tit 3:4). Immersed like everyone else in the dramatic complexity of historical events, they remain unshakably certain that God is our Father and loves us”

and myself–as a Christian …knowing God …knowing him especially as he is revealed in Jesus of Nazareth …I can make this response. I can have this Hope in me…this trust and Faith…

 

[itinerant1]

this is not the response to give…

Rev. Robertson’s is not a Catholic and his response was not the Catholic one…

look rather to what Pope Benedict XVI’ response…

(i am not saying that Rev. Robertson is not giving aid too…but you do NOT find such an argument from the Catholic Church)

Earthquakes happen from the shift of plates in the earth… we need to give compassion not wild conjectures!

I did not consider that portarica’s post even merited a response, but I’m glad you said what you did.

 

[itinerant1]

Haitian perspective on earthquake: According to Fr. Rivero, the majority of believing Haitians do not blame God for the tragedy.

What Life in Haiti Is Like on Day 23

SÃO PAULO, Brazil, FEB. 4, 2010 (Zenit.org).- The Dominicans working in Haiti are still sleeping outside; since the Jan. 12 earthquake and series of aftershocks, buildings are still not safe.

There are not enough tents for all the homeless, however, and the elementary needs of food and medicine continue to be the priority.

These are the observations made to ZENIT by Dominican Father Manuel Rivero, provincial vicar of the order in Haiti, who was in Brazil at a meeting of Dominicans serving Latin America to consider the Haiti medium- and long-term response.

“The aid is not only economic,” Father Rivero assured, “but also human and spiritual. The Church, mystery of communion, is a source of hope for the Haitian people.”

The Dominican friar recounted how Haitians, as “believers, don’t stop praying.” He said the majority have not fallen into blaming God, but rather, “Jesus Christ continues to protect his Church. During the aftershocks of the quake, the prayer raised to heaven [was] ‘Jesus! Jesus!’”

Father Rivero also affirmed that there is a reason for Haitians to look to the future: “Solidarity and friendship between peoples are sources of hope. The worst thing would be to feel abandoned. But this isn’t the case!”

(Taken From [ZENIT](Permalink: http://zenit.org/article-28252?l=english))