Haiti earthquake, God's wrath or natural phenomenon?

[Sam_777]

Yesterday in our Friday sermon our Muslim cleric said it’s God’s wrath because people have sinned extensively.

If I disagree with him and consider that as natural phenomenon then where is God to protect those 100,000 people who died in seconds!

If I agree with him then the 230,000 people (most of them are Muslims) who died in the Asian tsunami back in 2004 are also sinners!

What do you think?

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Yesterday in our Friday sermon our Muslim cleric said it’s God’s wrath because people have sinned extensively.

If I disagree with him and consider that as natural phenomenon then where is God to protect those 100,000 people who died in seconds!

If I agree with him then the 230,000 people (most of them are Muslims) who died in the Asian tsunami back in 2004 are also sinners!

What do you think?

I think that the sun rises on the sinners and the righteous alike.

 

[twopekinguys]

Bad things happen to good people, no matter what their religous affiliation.

 

[dzheremi]

It seems to me that you’ve found a better reason to doubt the cleric than to doubt God, my friend.

I do not know what or who caused the earthquake in Haiti, or the Asian Tsunami. To me this is not so important. I know of many clerics (in Islam and Christianity alike) who make a big name for themselves pretending to be God’s official spokesperson. This is can be dangerous, so I don’t listen to such people. It is more important to see God at work moving the hearts of the people who are working to rescue the injured and poor. People die as some clerics all over the world say “Good! They deserved it!” instead of saying “What a terrible loss of the gift of life! Who knows what great saints we may have lost today!”

I prefer the second reaction, because it reminds me of our common humanity and the responsibility we have to serve God while we can. The first reaction just seems like spiritual boastfulness and pride, of the type that the Bible warns us against. It is likely that your cleric does not know this verse from Proverbs (16:18): “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall”.

قَبْلَ الانْكِسَارِ الْكِبْرِيَاءُ، وَقَبْلَ السُّقُوطِ غَطْرَسَةُ الرُّوحِ

 

[Edwardjohn]

We all have an appointment to die, and THEN, the judgement.

 

[karoleck]

Sam777 this is a good question,I suppose that you cannot rule out the Muslim Clerics beliefs that it is God’s wrath,maybe he is right?But then again maybe he does not know the mind of God!!

I liked this reply–There was a horrible hurricane based around Manilla with thousands of deaths ,injuries and dispossed homeless people.A T.V. reporter asked Cardinal Sin the same question "is this a punishment from God’? the man asked him.The Cardinal humbly replied that he did not know the answer to this question–but he added MAYBE GOD IS TRYING TO TELL US SOMETHING?’’ !!!

So maybe God is telling us something in this Haiti earthquake–even as simple as “remember man that thou art dust and unto dust you shall return” or “Repent and believe in the Gospel” the two Ash Wednesday prayers that are available to be used when the Sign of the Cross is put on the forehead as the ashes came from last years’ palms.
My own opinion is that in the old testement God did use “natural phenomenon” to punish sin,the great flood,seven years of drought,the events before Moses left Egypt.Is not God the ruler of creation after all!! Certainly Jesus warns us that towards the end times there will be an increase of “natural phenomeon” and wars–maybe we should start to watch the fig trees?Is global climate change really man made after all?

If that is what a muslim leader thinks,well he is entitled to his opinions,he would not be the first.Perhaps he is voicing what many believe,with all the abortions and IVF,same sex unions; could this cleric be right after all? Some could ask why such a poor,catholic country-what did they do-it is the western world that should be punished.Was it not the Catholics of Nagasagi that bore the brunt of the USA Atom bomb;I know this is broadening the thread,sorry, but it shows that God does PERMIT the good to suffer-maybe they are ready for Heaven?

May the souls of the faithful departed in Haiti,rest in peace.Amen

Mother of Mercy and Suffering please pray for the sick and suffering people,
inspire the world to show compassion in their generous material help and support with pray.Amen.

 

[redhen]

If this was divine punishment to a nation of sinners, or Voodoo practitioners as Pat Robertson proclaims, then logically Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia should have been swallowed up by the earth.

 

[Edwardjohn]

We all have an appointment to die, and THEN, the judgement.

And, Jeremiah 10:10 says, “But the Lord is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.”

 

[Splinker]

I don’t believe an earthquake in Haiti is God’s punishment. Pat Robertson is punishment enough.

 

[jessep28]

We have to remember too that God’s ways are hidden to us outside of His Word. We can speculate all day that this is a punishment for sin or that its a call to action for other Christians to support the region and possibly be a witness, etc. We simply don’t know.

 

[jessep28]

This is a good FAQ article that the LCMS published on their website regarding God’s wrath:

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=7490

Q. Does God still exhibit His wrath as He did in Old Testament times? If so, does He exhibit it toward people? If so, does He carry out His wrath upon unbelievers only or sinning believers as well? Has not God’s wrath against sin been carried out in full, for all time when He sent His one and only Son to bear the sin of the world on the cross? Finally, is it not true that God allows tragedy (the consequence of sin) to happen for the purpose of bringing about something better, which ultimately shows the world His glory? (e.g. John 9:1-38–The man born blind whom Jesus healed. John 11:1-45–The death of Lazarus and Jesus’ raising him to life again. These questions came up at my women’s Bible study in light of the recent tsunami disaster in Asia.

A. Your questions are not easy ones, partly because Scripture itself addresses the issue of God’s “wrath” and “judgment” in several different ways and contexts, and it is essential (though not always so simple) to distinguish between them. On the one hand, it is clear from a text like Romans 1:18 that God continues to “exhibit his wrath” against sin even today, and that this wrath extends not only to “sin” in some abstract sense but also to “sinners” themselves (see Romans 1:21-32). On the other hand, texts like Luke 13:1-5 (along with John 9:1-38, noted in your e-mail) serve as a strong caution against trying to interpret specific events (e.g., human tragedies, including natural disasters) as God’s judgment upon the specific sins of individuals or groups, whether Christians or non-Christians. While it is true that natural disasters in the world certainly do not happen without God’s purposes at work (cf. Romans 8:28), we must remember that–apart from the specific revelation of God’s will in His Word–God’s ways are hidden to us. (This is the difference between interpreting Old Testament events on the basis of information provided in Scripture itself and contemporary events where we have no such Biblical interpretation provided for us.)

It is also clear from Scripture (on the basis of texts like Hebrews 12:3-17; 1 Cor. 11:27-32, etc.) that Christians, too, may experience God’s “judgment” against sin as a form of loving discipline, even while knowing and trusting that God’s wrath against sin has been fully satisfied through the life, suffering, and death of Jesus Christ on their behalf (see, e.g., Romans 5:8-1). Christians, too, however, must be careful about interpreting specific events in their lives (trials, etc.) as forms of God’s “judgment” against specific sins.

The fundamental truth underlying Luke 13:1-5 is that God calls each of us to live a life of true and continual repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, which includes accepting the fact that God does not promise to answer all of our questions about “why” certain things happen in our lives and in the world.

 

[benidict]

Yesterday in our Friday sermon our Muslim cleric said it’s God’s wrath because people have sinned extensively.

If I disagree with him and consider that as natural phenomenon then where is God to protect those 100,000 people who died in seconds!

If I agree with him then the 230,000 people (most of them are Muslims) who died in the Asian tsunami back in 2004 are also sinners!

What do you think?

and you will hear of wars, and rumors of wars. also earthquakes in various places, do not let your hearts be troubled. for the end is not yet.(paraphrase mine.)

 

[bridgeforsale]

Yesterday in our Friday sermon our Muslim cleric said it’s God’s wrath because people have sinned extensively.

If I disagree with him and consider that as natural phenomenon then where is God to protect those 100,000 people who died in seconds!

If I agree with him then the 230,000 people (most of them are Muslims) who died in the Asian tsunami back in 2004 are also sinners!

What do you think?

god likes to kill people, but he leaves atheists and agnostics alone (I guess he likes smart people)

 

[Sam_777]

I liked this reply–There was a horrible hurricane based around Manilla with thousands of deaths ,injuries and dispossed homeless people.A T.V. reporter asked Cardinal Sin the same question "is this a punishment from God’? the man asked him.The Cardinal humbly replied that he did not know the answer to this question–but he added MAYBE GOD IS TRYING TO TELL US SOMETHING?’’ !!!

So maybe God is telling us something in this Haiti earthquake–even as simple as “remember man that thou art dust and unto dust you shall return” or “Repent and believe in the Gospel” the two Ash Wednesday prayers that are available to be used when the Sign of the Cross is put on the forehead as the ashes came from last years’ palms.
My own opinion is that in the old testement God did use “natural phenomenon” to punish sin,the great flood,seven years of drought,the events before Moses left Egypt.Is not God the ruler of creation after all!! Certainly Jesus warns us that towards the end times there will be an increase of “natural phenomeon” and wars–maybe we should start to watch the fig trees?Is global climate change really man made after all?

If that is what a muslim leader thinks,well he is entitled to his opinions,he would not be the first.Perhaps he is voicing what many believe,with all the abortions and IVF,same sex unions; could this cleric be right after all? Some could ask why such a poor,catholic country-what did they do-it is the western world that should be punished.Was it not the Catholics of Nagasagi that bore the brunt of the USA Atom bomb;I know this is broadening the thread,sorry, but it shows that God does PERMIT the good to suffer-maybe they are ready for Heaven?

May the souls of the faithful departed in Haiti,rest in peace.Amen

Mother of Mercy and Suffering please pray for the sick and suffering people,
inspire the world to show compassion in their generous material help and support with pray.Amen.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif, well said karoleck, that sounds logic.

 

[Sam_777]

This is a good FAQ article that the LCMS published on their website regarding God’s wrath:

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=7490

Thanks jessep28 for the link, this part is very important:
“it is clear from a text like Romans 1:18 that God continues to “exhibit his wrath” against sin even today, and that this wrath extends not only to “sin” in some abstract sense but also to “sinners” themselves (see Romans 1:21-32).”

and you will hear of wars, and rumors of wars. also earthquakes in various places, do not let your hearts be troubled. for the end is not yet.(paraphrase mine.)

god likes to kill people, but he leaves atheists and agnostics alone (I guess he likes smart people)

 

[Jehoshua]

Death is a part of life and dawns on all people at one time or another. Likewise disaster whether through fate, chance or God’s will, will dawn upon the few and the many alike. All actions and all things in creation have a message, but it is not our part to say what that message is or whether the misfortune of others is because of divine punishment.

 

[Sam_777]

Likewise disaster whether through fate, chance or God’s will,

well, I don’t think “chance” plays any role here, I sometimes think the “Physical law” which God created when he created the earth and heavens plays a major role.

So I believe in order for us to escape this “Physical law” we have to die and be Spirits.

 

[Jehoshua]

just covering all bases. I believe all things have a purpose but some people do not.

 

[KathleenGee]

I live in one of the greatest earthquake regions in the world…

In fact, our fault line is like the one in Indonesia…it has the same potential of destruction, and my region is among the least religious in America, and a city in my state has more atheists than anywhere in America…

And just west of it in the Pacific Ocean, there have been many swarms of earthquakes, scientists finding alot of activity…probably this contributing to the warming of polar waters…

Anyhoo, if we have a big one, that city to the east is the primary target…everybody has read about the earthquake swarms…

My daughter married a man from a coastal city and his parents’ home is now in a Tsunami zone. Well, they are very devout Christians, and if this is their exit from this world, so be it. They are ready to meet Him.

About the victims of the great tsunami a few years ago, and this that happened in Haiti…think of this…many people were crushed…but how many turned to the One True God for forgiveness???

We cannot judge the last moment of a person’s life…only God can judge…He is the God of love and forgiveness.

And He has called us to pray for our protection…we could die of earthquake, tsunami, rainstorm, accidents, murder and foul play, poison, disease, the slow death of polluted foods and furnishings and bad air, we could be executed for crimes, or persecuted and killed.

We never know the day the Lord will come for each one of us…Do not be like the foolish virgins who did not keep their lamps–symbol of their faith–alive with prayer and fidelity.

Judging others is a great sin Christ warned us about–we have to focus more on our own sinfulness and root out the bad stuff…and we all have things in us very difficult to remove.

 

[DeoDeuce2010]

Yesterday in our Friday sermon our Muslim cleric said it’s God’s wrath because people have sinned extensively.

If I disagree with him and consider that as natural phenomenon then where is God to protect those 100,000 people who died in seconds!

If I agree with him then the 230,000 people (most of them are Muslims) who died in the Asian tsunami back in 2004 are also sinners!

What do you think?

Asian Tsunami, Muslim…Haiti, voodooism. That is what others are saying where I live…who knows? Geez…I would think Las Vegas would be next since that’s a cess pool of sin. Always seems that the poorest of the poor get hit catastrophically. Why not unleash an earthquake in Saudi Arabia where the wealth is? Not that I wish that on anyone…God has his own ways of dealing with the non-believers and cess pools out there.
Although Haiti is mostly a Catholic country… I just don’t get it.