Halloween

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Do you know deadmau5?

Moar Ghosts N Stuff

I don’t like dubstep but trance is very nice.

Ferry Corsten

It’s something my 18 year old electro-wizard son and I can share. I like most of what he listens to, including this song.

Lights - Up Up and Away

and i am 54…chronologically…
Yeah - I like most of what my teen boys (and now 20 yo) listen to. My son had a party this past weekend, and it was great because the music was cranked loudly, the kids were dancing in their space, and I was dancing to their music in my space! 😃 At first they thought I was strange, but soon they thought I was pretty awesome! A couple of kids asked me how they could get their parents to like that music!😉
 
Honestly, I am having a hard time believing that I’m having to convince Catholics that using feast days to actually feast and have fun before God is as much a part of our religion as working and practicing self-denial at the times appropriate for those things!

Be like little children… dare to imagine that your Heavenly Father smiles with you when you have fun!
Honestly, I’m going be like Veritas over there and say I feel torn between agreeing and disagreeing. You are right that some Catholics see the self-denial side of the faith and automatically start painting every aspect of it with that brush. I don’t like it either and don’t believe it’s true.

On the other hand, it’s because of just that which cause even those outside of the faith to find the idea of religion and ‘fun’ highly incompatible. (That and of course an adult’s sense of fun can be… rather different from little children. Well, at least this adult… ehehehe…eheeheehee… gyahahah! :whacky:)
I don’t find my Faith boring, in fact, is a source of happiness to me.
Thank you for proving Marx right.
 
This also reminds me of the preaching we get about modern music - that anything other than Gregorian chant is from the Devil and will pollute our minds.

I had half a mind to throw on some Black Sabbath as I passed out Halloween candy last night…figured Mickey’s head might spin around just thinking of it!

LOL
You know, because of your post, think I shall commemorate the end of Halloween and the start of the Christmas season by playing a special song

grins evilly
 
You know, because of your post, think I shall commemorate the end of Halloween and the start of the Christmas season by playing a special song

grins evilly
I like the Danny Elfman version better. And I LOVE that movie although I am not a Tim Burton fan normally. Brilliant clay-mation.
 
my difference with Mickey is that the devil doesn’t use the same tactics with everyone.
You are absolutely correct. And it is a great deception to justify demonic halloween by prentending that it is some kind of harmless clean celebration. This is one of Satan’s greatest delusions.
The Desert Fathers were undeniably holy, but they didn’t write about the spiritual lives of children!
Huh??? The Holy Fathers wrote for all mankind…men, women, and children. Do you honestly think they have excluded the innocent children from their wisdom. That is ludicrous!!!
They went into the desert specifically to do combat with the devil by a life of severe penances and self-denial, and so of course their writings are going to be from that perspective.
Amen. And they speak to us about the wiles and deceptions of the demons. These are words we should heed. If these great ascetics fought such monumental battles, is that not a cue for us? Even these great ascetics could be deceived sometimes by the demons…and yet I am being told that we simply have to mock the devil and we are okay?
The way the devil attacks someone called to difficult aesthetic practices will be different than the way the devil would approach different “prey.”
The devil will adapt to the circumstances. I am sure he is quite pleased with American demonic halloween.
You don’t insulate a child from the devil by teaching her to see the devil in everything.
Insulation is the not goal. We teach our children to recognize and battle the passions…to strive for virtues…to confess sins with a mind toward metanoia…to understand that the devil is real and he seeks to destroy us. That is Scripture and Tradition. We do not teach them to dress up like Satan and roam the neighborhood visiting homes adorned with witches, vampires, demons, and occultic symbolism.
You don’t keep her from evil by teaching her that it is dangerous to use her imagination or to have fun.
Imagination and fun does not have to be demonic. And it does not have to include demonic halloween.
I’m not saying that Halloween, with its emphasis on death, the other-worldy, and unseen powers that can cause fear, doesn’t need to have a warning that cautions against lures towards the occult. That is a reasonable warning!
Now you are getting it. It is best to teach our children from the beginning that participation in such rituals are dangerous.
Still, a person who condemns carving and lighting up pumpkins and hanging bats and cobwebs because these things pose some threat to holiness can unknowingly misrepresent what holiness is.
How do you misrepresent holiness by refusing to participate in occultic activities?
That is a real spiritual danger, too!
No…it is not.
This lie even puts a wedge into the lives of many Christians, such that they have religion and holiness in one compartment and enjoyment of the pleasures God ordained for us to have in another.
Enjoyment of the pleasures of God are divine things. Worldly pleasures are something else.
If we start putting God in one box and the good things of life in another, that inevitably takes our gratitude for these blessings away from our enjoyment of them.
God IS the good things of life!

Beware of the “pleasures” of this world.

Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God.
James 4:4
We start looking at enjoyment itself as a sin, and therefore think that avoiding sin isn’t even a realistic goal for a "normal person
Avoiding sin is not possible. Repenting, confessing and correcting ourselves by the grace of God is the goal.
It is not right to forbid what is allowed; that tactic, because it is not fully based on the truth, can actually play into the devil’s hand.
Allowed? I think that for some people to say that there are aspects of demonic halloween that are healthy and good…is playing into the devil’s hand.🤷
 
I had half a mind to throw on some Black Sabbath as I passed out Halloween candy last night…figured Mickey’s head might spin around just thinking of it!
You have free will to do what you please. I do not know you. It will not disturb me.
 
You know, because of your post, think I shall commemorate the end of Halloween and the start of the Christmas season by playing a special song

grins evilly
I love that song! Thanks for reminding me of it!
You are absolutely correct. And it is a great deception to justify demonic halloween by prentending that it is some kind of harmless clean celebration. This is one of Satan’s greatest delusions.
Beware of the “pleasures” of this world.
You have free will to do what you please. I do not know you. It will not disturb me.
God gave us all free will! Some use that free will to enjoy dressing up, hanging spiders about, and enjoying Halloween. I am glad that those of us who choose to celebrate do not disturb you! So why do you keep implying that those who do celebrate Halloween are somehow less devout? (a theory I reject, btw)!
 
Honestly, I’m going be like Veritas over there and say I feel torn between agreeing and disagreeing. You are right that some Catholics see the self-denial side of the faith and automatically start painting every aspect of it with that brush. I don’t like it either and don’t believe it’s true.

On the other hand, it’s because of just that which cause even those outside of the faith to find the idea of religion and ‘fun’ highly incompatible. (That and of course an adult’s sense of fun can be… rather different from little children. Well, at least this adult… ehehehe…eheeheehee… gyahahah! :whacky:)

Thank you for proving Marx right.
Obviously is not my only source of entertainment.

I don’t see a problem with not finding the Faith as a boring thing.

Blessings!

🙂
 
So why do you keep implying that those who do celebrate Halloween are somehow less devout?
If this is what you perceive…then please forgive this sinner.

I am only attempting to shed some light on the dangers of the demonic/occultic overtones of American halloween.
 
If this is what you perceive…then please forgive this sinner.

I am only attempting to shed some light on the dangers of the demonic/occultic overtones of American halloween.
I think if your finding occultic/demonic overtones it shows more on you than halloween.
 
How do you misrepresent holiness by refusing to participate in occultic activities?
No, you do right to refuse to participate in occultic activities. You misrepresent holiness by condemning that which is not forbidden and making something into an occult activity when no one actually involved in the activity understands or intends it that way.

Read what Paul has to say about this whole matter in 1 Corinthians, when he talks about the problem of meat offered to idols. He doesn’t make a blanket condemnation of eating such meat or hazarding even accidental contact with anything that might have some unknowing connection to false religions. Rather, he cautions only that we are bound to avoid that which is understood by others to be offered to a demon or a false god, even if there is no truth to it. We are not bound, however, to refrain from things that no one present even slightly understands to have a thing to do with demons or false religions. If we do not give scandal, we can eat. We don’t have to get so scrupulous that we fear there is some demonic connection that no one present intends or that is being done without our knowledge.

If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is placed before you, without raising questions on grounds of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This was offered in sacrifice,” do not eat it on account of the one who called attention to it and on account of conscience; I mean not your own conscience, but the other’s. For why should my freedom be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake thankfully, why am I reviled for that over which I give thanks? So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. 1 Cor. 10:27-31

That is the plain sense of the whole section of 1 Corinthians 8-11. It does not get more patristic than that!

Now, I will concede that what you are seeing in your local Halloween celebrations might be a horse of an entirely different color from what I see around here. Still, I have never read any Satanist or even a Wiccan who exults, “See, the Christians celebrate Halloween, they worship demons!” No. Not only do we not think this is what we are doing, it is not what the secular public thinks we are doing and it is not what people who actually do practice pagan religions think we are doing. The only people who think that Halloween is Satanic or pagan is the people who have nothing to do with it. The people celebrating it think no such thing.

If anything, the pagans express offense because Halloween is so totally removed from “real” celebration of Samhain as to connect their celebrations with an intentional farce or the making their witches out to be evil sorceresses when they aren’t! At any rate, if you read what pagans write in their discussions of Samhain, which really is a pagan celebration, they make a clear and adamant distinction between Halloween and what they’re celebrating. They would say that Halloween is the children’s farce at best and a direct attack on pagans at worst, while Samhain is their religious observance, and never the twain shall meet.

Of course you have to avoid things that intend to make a connection to the occult. So you can’t decide the question of Halloween outside the context of your understanding of a particular celebration and the understanding of those with whom you celebrate. But please do concede that the night before All Saints can include a bunch of dressing up and candy and ugly-faced pumpkins without fear of some connection to the devil that absolutely not a single person involved intends whatsoever. That goes beyond what the Apostles taught or cautioned us against.
 
I like the Danny Elfman version better. And I LOVE that movie although I am not a Tim Burton fan normally. Brilliant clay-mation.
I love that song! Thanks for reminding me of it!
I’m not a fan of Marilyn Manson myself but truth be told, I just can’t choose between this one and the original. XD

The original version makes me think of both the movie AND its appearance in Kingdom Hearts.

Manson’s version on the other hand makes me imagine myself as this grim-reaper themed Kamen Rider who fights alongside a notorious gang of Halloween-themed anti-heroes. :whacky:
 
You misrepresent holiness by condemning that which is not forbidden and making something into an occult activity when no one actually involved in the activity understands or intends it that way.
I’m sorry, but there is nothing holy about American demonic haloween. The eve before All Souls Day was meant for evening prayer (Vespers) and prayers for the reposed.
Read what Paul has to say about this whole matter in 1 Corinthians, when he talks about the problem of meat offered to idols.
I’m sorry. But justifying demonic halloween through St Paul’s epistle is ludicrous.
We are not bound, however, to refrain from things that no one present even slightly understands to have a thing to do with demons or false religions.
Again, some people may attempt to morph halloween into some sort of benign excuse for “harmless fun”, but its occultic overtones and demonic symbolism cannot be denied.
If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is placed before you, without raising questions on grounds of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This was offered in sacrifice,” do not eat it on account of the one who called attention to it and on account of conscience; I mean not your own conscience, but the other’s. For why should my freedom be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake thankfully, why am I reviled for that over which I give thanks? So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. 1 Cor. 10:27-31
You cannot drink the chalice of the Lord, and the chalice of devils: you cannot be partakers of the table of the Lord, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient. All things are lawful for me, but all things do not edify.
1 Cor 10:21-23
But please do concede that the night before All Saints can include a bunch of dressing up and candy and ugly-faced pumpkins without fear of some connection to the devil that absolutely not a single person involved intends whatsoever.
The only thing I concede is that the evening should be dedicated to prayer…not the observance of a pagan festival with occultic overtones.

The Very Reverend Vsevolod Chaplin on halloween
“When people turn to evil forces by way of a joke, when they praise them and flirt with them, it reflects on the fate of the person, because it teaches him that evil is acceptable. Walking with a demon in life can only lead one to tragedy, unhappiness and self-destruction.”
 
From the Gospel this Sunday (Matthew 23)
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
The Pharisees at least had the seat of authority. One who goes beyond the teaching of the Catholic Church in regards to Halloween has even less business telling others what to do. We all have our opinions and responsible to live in them. We have authority to go past Church teaching and try and tell others to live according to our opinions.
 
[Col 2:16](http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=51&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Galations 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
 
One who goes beyond the teaching of the Catholic Church in regards to Halloween has even less business telling others what to do.
Although I have never seen an ex-cathedra statement from the Pope urging Roman Catholics to refrain from celebrating halloween, I have never seen a statement urging them to" have fun" and participate in this demonic celebration. Is this what you need…a papal infallible statement on halloween? I have read many Catholic priests and bishops who come out against observance of this occultic celebration. And I have seen others take the opposite stand.

I suppose your conscience will be your guide. 😉
 
[Col 2:16](http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=51&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Galations 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
”Abstain from all appearance of evil” [1 Thessalonians 5:22].

And what communion does light have with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial?
2 Corinthians6:14-15

The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Romans 13:12

Be you humbled therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in the time of visitation: Casting all your care upon him, for he hath care of you. Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour. Whom resist ye, strong in faith: knowing that the same affliction befalls your brethren who are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us into his eternal glory in Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a little, will himself perfect you, and confirm you, and establish you.
1 Peter 5:6-11

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few (Matthew 7:13-14).

“We cannot partake of God’s feast and the feast of devils.”
Tertullian

You cannot drink the chalice of the Lord, and the chalice of devils: you cannot be partakers of the table of the Lord, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient. All things are lawful for me, but all things do not edify.
1 Cor 10:21-23

“That one must not join the heathen in celebration of holidays and festivals, and share in their Godlessness**” [Canon XXXIX of Laodicea]**
 
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