Hand Clapping During Mass

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paramedicgirl

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Do you feel as I do that hand clapping has no place in the Mass? Not only clapping to the beat of songs (that seems so Protestant to me!), but also applauding parishioners for whatever reason they are being exalted?

Why can’t we give all praise to Jesus at Mass? It is only one hour a week, and to remove the focus from Jesus to applaud a parishioner seems to detract from the reason we are there.
 
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paramedicgirl:
Do you feel as I do that hand clapping has no place in the Mass? Not only clapping to the beat of songs (that seems so Protestant to me!), but also applauding parishioners for whatever reason they are being exalted?

Why can’t we give all praise to Jesus at Mass? It is only one hour a week, and to remove the focus from Jesus to applaud a parishioner seems to detract from the reason we are there.
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At Scout Sunday, we invite all the Scouts in front of the altar before the final blessing. The Priest gives them their own blessing and then we all clap for them and their contribution to our parish. After 1st Communion Sunday, we invite all the Communicants to in front of the altar to get their “pin and certificate” and then they turn to the congregation and we applaud them on their accomplishment. On a weekend where the Gospel was about Marriage, before the final blessing, we had a couple come and talk about how they once had a troubled marriage and used Retrouville (sp?) to begin a process of healing. They cried, we cried. And afterwords we applauded them for their witness. Once a year, the elite choir at our cities only Catholic High School comes to each parish to lead us in music and after Mass we express our thanks in applause. In all cases, you could see the joy and peace of Christ as they felt the warmth from the congregation expressed in the “clapping.”

In America, applauding is a way that we communicate “we are with you”, “we love you”, and “we appreciate you.” Parish life is also about community and sometimes we need to celebrate it.
 
Cardinal Responds to Questions on Liturgy

Has liturgical dance been approved for Masses by your office?
There has never been a document from our Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments saying that dance is approved in the Mass.
Code: 
				The question of dance is difficult and delicate. However, it   is good to know that the tradition of the Latin Church has not   known the dance. It is something that people are introducing   in the last ten years -- or twenty years. It was not always so.   Now it is spreading like wildfire, one can say, in all the continents   -- some more than others. In my own continent, Africa, it is   spreading. In Asia, it is spreading. 
				
				Now, some priests and lay people think that Mass is never complete   without dance. The difficulty is this: we come to Mass primarily   to adore God -- what we call the vertical dimension. We do not   come to Mass to entertain one another. That's not the purpose   of Mass. The parish hall is for that.
** So all those that want to entertain us – after Mass, let us go to the parish hall and then you can dance. And then we clap. But when we come to Mass we don’t come to clap. We don’t come to watch people, to admire people. We want to adore God, to thank Him, to ask Him pardon for our sins, and to ask Him for what we need. **
Code: 
				Don't misunderstand me, because when I said this at one place   somebody said to me: "you are an African bishop. You Africans   are always dancing. Why do you say we don't dance?" 
				
				A moment -- we Africans are not always dancing! [laughter] ........
 
I may be wrong, but I believe in his book ‘The Spirit of the Liturgy’ then Cardinal Ratzinger commented on this. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought he wrote something to the effect that if we make expressions such as clapping during Mass, it is an indication we have have lost the focus of the Liturgy and have stepped into ‘ourselves’ and out of the divine worship. That may be a very bad paraphrase, so someone please correct me if I’m way off base.
 
Cardinal Ratzinger:

“Dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy. In about the third century, there was an attempt in certain Gnostic-Docetic circles to introduce it into the liturgy. For these people, the Crucifixion was only an appearance. . . . Dancing could take the place of the liturgy of the Cross, because, after all, the Cross was only an appearance. The cultic dances of the different religions have different purposes - incantation, imitative magic, mystical ecstasy - none of which is compatible with the essential purpose of the liturgy as the “reasonable sacrifice”. It is totally absurd to try to make the liturgy “attractive” by introducing dancing pantomimes (wherever possible performed by professional dance troupes), which frequently (and rightly, from the professionals’ point of view) end with applause. Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.”

“None of the Christian rites include dancing. What people call dancing in the Ethiopian rite or the Zairean [Congolese] form of the Roman liturgy is in fact a rhythmically ordered procession, very much in keeping with the dignity of the occasion. It provides an inner discipline and order for the various stages of the liturgy, bestowing on them beauty and, above all, making them worthy of God.”
 
Fr Benedict Groeschel interupted applause when he spoke locally a few years back. He said that if you feel you must clap, please just use one hand:D
 
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Orionthehunter:
At Scout Sunday, we invite all the Scouts in front of the altar before the final blessing. The Priest gives them their own blessing and then we all clap for them and their contribution to our parish.
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I’ve done this myself as a Cubmaster for a Pack chartered by our Parish. Just before the blessing, the scouts that have earned their religious emblem of their (Catholic) faith are asked to come forward. The emblems are blessed by the priest and each of these scouts gets presented with their emblem by him with the help of scout leaders.

Within Scouts, we are not supposed to present their emblems to them in a normal (Pack/Den/Troop/etc.) meeting. The scouts’ recognize many different religions and the meeting (and the religious emblem patch they are awarded) are “generic” to respect all faiths. So, for a Cub/Boy Scout, the patch (a silver square knot on a purple backround) indicates that he has earned a religoius emblem for his faith (Catholic, Jewish, Islam, LDS, etc.), but it is still generic. The scout’s specific emblem (which for Catholic’s and many other faiths are made of metal) should be presented to them in their house of worship. The end of the mass, right before the blessing is a perfect place to recognize these scouts for their hard work in living out their “Duty to God” portion of their Cub/Boy/Girl/Campfire Oaths/Promises. And they deserve our recognition for these achievements with an acceptable applause. And when done at the end of our worship (the right time), these boys (and girls) are being formed into better Christians by our recognition. And I think God would smile on us for this.

SG257
 
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buffalo:
C Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.”
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priceless
 
:hmmm:

I recall applauding at the end of mass during the christmas season for the choir

I recall applauding when a couple has been acknowledged for celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary (I think it was after the homily and before the prayers of petition).

I recall applauding for the visiting missionaries from other countries as they share their stories to seek our support and prayers (again, after the homily and before the prayers of petition).

I recall applauding for the chairs of certain committees who speak to introduce new educational programs for the parish, seeking members for various councils & committees and ministries (again, after the homily and before prayers of petition).

I recall applauding for the youth group student who spoke to let us know how much the group of kids we helped send to World Youth Day enjoyed their visit to Rome (after the homily, again).

There have been a few baptisms conducted as part of regular Sunday mass and I recall applauding for the new member after the entire ceremony was completed (kind of like they do for wedding masses when the priest introduces the bride and groom - and the congregation applauds).

Are those innappropriate?
 
I recall applauding at the end of mass during the christmas season for the choir

I recall applauding when a couple has been acknowledged for celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary (I think it was after the homily and before the prayers of petition).

I recall applauding for the visiting missionaries from other countries as they share their stories to seek our support and prayers (again, after the homily and before the prayers of petition).

There have been a few baptisms conducted as part of regular Sunday mass and I recall applauding for the new member after the entire ceremony was completed (kind of like they do for wedding masses when the priest introduces the bride and groom - and the congregation applauds).

Are those innappropriate?
[/quote]

Looks like most of these are human achievements.

This is what the Pope says:

**Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.” (THE SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY, by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger p. 198):

**I wonder when some people will start clapping when Father has a really good Mass.
 
Umm. The scouts were not being recognized for their dancing ability (or juggling or feats of magic for that matter). They were being recognized for their hard work doing religious study.

Now a hypothetical situation here, say a priest is saying his last mass prior to his retirement. Would he be worthy of our appreciation in a form that is recognized by our society today (but is not sacrilegious)? Or should we respond by clapping with one hand only (no disrespect to Fr. Groeschel)?

Until there is a clarification on this and a CLEAR one at that, I have to believe that God is clapping with us, when done appropriately and at the right time.
 
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stargazer257:
Umm. The scouts were not being recognized for their dancing ability (or juggling or feats of magic for that matter). They were being recognized for their hard work doing religious study.

Now a hypothetical situation here, say a priest is saying his last mass prior to his retirement. Would he be worthy of our appreciation in a form that is recognized by our society today (but is not sacrilegious)? Or should we respond by clapping with one hand only (no disrespect to Fr. Groeschel)?

Until there is a clarification on this and a CLEAR one at that, I have to believe that God is clapping with us, when done appropriately and at the right time.
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No one is to be uniquely recognized during Mass. Recognize them in the parish hall.
 
At my mom’s parish, everyone claps for the music ministry people after Mass. While it’s great to show support for these people, I just don’t feel that it’s appropriate. Jesus just came down from heaven and sacrificed Himself again… all for me! I have much more to focus on than the choir and can easily express my appreciation for their ministry later.
 
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paramedicgirl:
Do you feel as I do that hand clapping has no place in the Mass? Not only clapping to the beat of songs (that seems so Protestant to me!), but also applauding parishioners for whatever reason they are being exalted?

Why can’t we give all praise to Jesus at Mass? It is only one hour a week, and to remove the focus from Jesus to applaud a parishioner seems to detract from the reason we are there.
Click to expand...
I don’t especially care for clapping of any kind at Mass; however, it isn’t because I feel that it is some kind of Protestant thing. I really would rather show reverence for the Lord by simply singing with my voice with all my heart instead of with my hands;)
 
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buffalo:
Looks like most of these are human achievements.

This is what the Pope says:

**Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.” (THE SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY, by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger p. 198):

**I wonder when some people will start clapping when Father has a really good Mass.
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What a cold place such a parish would be. I am very orthodox when it comes to the Mass. Concurrent (but subserviant) with my orthodoxy, I value my other parishioners. Sometimes they accomplish wonderful things w/ the help of God. They need to hear our appreciation whether they be Scouts, 1st Communicants, people who have faithfully been married and raised a family in our parish for 50 years, etc. When we applaud (the American customary means to express appreciation) together as a faith community, it is another form of praise and worship.

They aren’t something that “breaks out in the liturgy” but are done after the final prayer and prior to the final blessing. When my former Bishop (known nationally for his attention to liturgical abuses) calls up all the newly confirmed to the altar before the final blessing and then asks everyone to express themselves in applause, I will disregard “interpretations” that say this is improper as something other than from the Church. I’ll consider the use of the Pope’s reference to applause somewhere else in the liturgy than right before the final blessing and thus the use of his quote to prove a “abuse” as a Protestant Sola Scriptura tactic by taking teh Pope’s comment out of context.

In all the cases I referenced, these people have done soemthing that contributes to the parish life and such contributions are a witness to others. Furthermore, not all parishes have halls (ours doesn’t) or the capacity to retain the entire congregation after Mass because of parking limitations to accommodate the next Mass.
 
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Orionthehunter:
What a cold place such a parish would be. I am very orthodox when it comes to the Mass. Concurrent (but subserviant) with my orthodoxy, I value my other parishioners. Sometimes they accomplish wonderful things w/ the help of God. They need to hear our appreciation whether they be Scouts, 1st Communicants, people who have faithfully been married and raised a family in our parish for 50 years, etc. When we applaud (the American customary means to express appreciation) together as a faith community, it is another form of praise and worship.

They aren’t something that “breaks out in the liturgy” but are done after the final prayer and prior to the final blessing. When my former Bishop (known nationally for his attention to liturgical abuses) calls up all the newly confirmed to the altar before the final blessing and then asks everyone to express themselves in applause, I will disregard “interpretations” that say this is improper as something other than from the Church. I’ll consider the use of the Pope’s reference to applause somewhere else in the liturgy than right before the final blessing and thus the use of his quote to prove a “abuse” as a Protestant Sola Scriptura tactic by taking teh Pope’s comment out of context.

In all the cases I referenced, these people have done soemthing that contributes to the parish life and such contributions are a witness to others. Furthermore, not all parishes have halls (ours doesn’t) or the capacity to retain the entire congregation after Mass because of parking limitations to accommodate the next Mass.
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Fundamentally it comes down to why you are at Mass. Catholics are at Mass to worship and adore God not each other. And by the way it is a relatively recent thing in the American Church.

Every year that passes I see a loss of reverance in Church in favor of ourselves.
 
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buffalo:
Looks like most of these are human achievements.

This is what the Pope says:

Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.” (THE SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY, by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger p. 198):

I wonder when some people will start clapping when Father has a really good Mass.
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But you’ve taken that out of context. He said that specifically when addressing liturgical dancing…he was saying if we started having dancers it would lend to applause and then…he said what he said.

Can you find any reference from him addressing whether or not we should applaud the missionaries who come to visit and speak to us during mass or at wedding masses or baptismal masses or after a young person thanks the congregation for their support of WJD while letting us know what it is they learned from the experience? All of those things are worthwhile and I would imagine are events Cardinal Ratzinger would support…he obviously doesn’t support liturgical dancing, thus the stern admonishment.
 
I have been having my own issue with this at mass . . .

I guess I do not have a problem with clapping in celebration or recognition for someones good works at the end of mass announcements - such as a successful fundraiser from the youth group, or wedding blessing, etc. As long as they do not precede or take the place of importance of the Eucharist and Homily. At the end is ok though.

As for in music . . . oh boy. I do not care for it one bit. Our music group at one mass has decided to jazz things up and are singing non-traditional songs and at least two of them every mass include clapping - one of these is the Gloria!!! :eek: I think it takes away the reverant nature and sacredness of our music at mass. I guess I must be a fuddy-duddy but I do not like it. Hubby and I serve as ushers next month at this mass, and I must finish my EMHC term this month - but beginning January we will be changing to a different mass time to avoid this catastrophe. Unfortunately I have found many other parishoners who dislike the new music trend as well, but we are all too uncomfortable with stepping on toes to voice our displeasure. 😦
 
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