Hand Holding and Guitars at Mass?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dumspirospero
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dumspirospero

Guest
I am sorry if this thread is a duplicate because I had a problem trying to post this earlier.

I wasn’t feeling well the other Sunday (Feast of the Holy Family), so I slept in and went to a local parish instead of making my usual treck downtown to the Cathedral…while I fulfilled my obligation to attend Mass…I found it to be lacking and full of what I consider liturgical abuse…maybe I am just paranoid…there were a couple of things that struck me as strange. First, they had a band instead of a choir and they had guitars and other instruments and it was very annoying and it upset me…is it proper to have guitars, etc. at Mass…furthermore, as if that wasn’t enough…everybody started holding hands during the “Our Father”…I just went along, because I would have been viewed as a social philistine if I didn’t…and it wasn’t the time to lecture a whole parish on liturgical abuses and the GIRD…also, I must say that the Priest look as if he was just going through the motions during the homily…he never made eye contact with the parishioners, he spoke in a monotone, and his homily was just dull…when I left, I decided never to go to that parish again…no matter what the circumstances…I will stick to the Cathedral or St. Agnes where I can enjoy a wonderful Indult TLM…

Has anyone else experienced this type of stuff before?
 
40.png
dumspirospero:
Has anyone else experienced this type of stuff before?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, this is all I have ever experienced. To top it off, we don’t even have a single indult Latin Mass in the entire diocese of Charlotte. Our priest often bungles the Gospel readings and talks right out into the congregation about how confused he is about what page to find things on, etc… We don’t even have a crucifix in the altar area, just a giant, plain white Risen Lord statue behind the altar – no cross at all – and I’ve been to two Masses where the priest didn’t have any assistants, therefore not even the processional crucifix was present during consecration. For Christmas, they strung up strings of lights all over Jesus’ arms and behind him. There is never a moment’s quiet when you enter this church, despite the fact we are proud of having a narthex; instead, everyone waits until they are inside to start talking. Inside is also where you will find those guitar strummers rehearsing, right up until the bells ring and the procession begins. Off to the side is a Eucharistic Chapel, but no one can pray there because someone is always blazing away on a guitar, or going in and out the door that opens right up to the rear parking lot.

Sorry. I had to get that off my chest.

http://www.mclaurinweb.com/stjames.gif
 
Just a question, what is wrong with a guitar at Mass instead of a piano/organ?
 
and I thought I had it bad…I will pray for you…I will pray you can find an Orthodox Parish…I guess I am blessed…I have both and Orthodox Parish that celebrates the Novus Ordo…and I also have access to a wonderful and beautiful Parish that has an Indult TLM.
40.png
Cherub:
Unfortunately, this is all I have ever experienced. To top it off, we don’t even have a single indult Latin Mass in the entire diocese of Charlotte. Our priest often bungles the Gospel readings and talks right out into the congregation about how confused he is about what page to find things on, etc… We don’t even have a crucifix in the altar area, just a giant, plain white Risen Lord statue behind the altar – no cross at all – and I’ve been to two Masses where the priest didn’t have any assistants, therefore not even the processional crucifix was present during consecration. For Christmas, they strung up strings of lights all over Jesus’ arms and behind him. There is never a moment’s quiet when you enter this church, despite the fact we are proud of having a narthex; instead, everyone waits until they are inside to start talking. Inside is also where you will find those guitar strummers rehearsing, right up until the bells ring and the procession begins. Off to the side is a Eucharistic Chapel, but no one can pray there because someone is always blazing away on a guitar, or going in and out the door that opens right up to the rear parking lot.

Sorry. I had to get that off my chest.
Click to expand...
 
Hey…I havent spoken with you in a while…I hope you are doing well. I don’t know if it is an abuse as much as it is a personal annoyance to me…Like I said…maybe I am weird or something…but I enjoy listening to choirs with an organ…and I especially like listening to the Choir sing in Latin…it is beautiful. I equate guitars with Protestants and rock and roll…but when I go to Mass…I want to listen to the traditional choir…it is more of a personal preference than anything.
40.png
ByzCath:
Just a question, what is wrong with a guitar at Mass instead of a piano/organ?
Click to expand...
 
I will stick to the Cathedral or St. Agnes where I can enjoy a wonderful Indult TLM…
Click to expand...
A perfect solution to your problem. Go and be well.
 
40.png
dumspirospero:
and I thought I had it bad…I will pray for you…I will pray you can find an Orthodox Parish…I guess I am blessed…I have both and Orthodox Parish that celebrates the Novus Ordo…and I also have access to a wonderful and beautiful Parish that has an Indult TLM.
Click to expand...
Dumspirospero: With respect, a church where there are liturgical abuses or liturgical ignorance is not, by definition, heterodox. It’s a church that is either disobedient or lax or, frankly, ignorant. “Orthodox” has to do with belief and teaching. There are lots of parishes that probably have had abuse creep into their Liturgies from so long ago that no one is noticing it (for example, I don’t THINK that we’re actually supposed to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer, and I don’t THINK that we’re actually supposed to adopt the Orans position as the priest does, though I’m not sure. This has been happening for so long, however, that I think most people would be amazed that it isn’t an institutionalized part of the Mass!), but these parishes could well be believing and teaching the Dogma/Doctrine of the Church. Doing so makes them orthodox, doing otherwise makes them heterodox. As to music, I quite agree with you…on all counts! That is, however, due to my own taste in music. My diocese is taking GIRM seriously, though I’m noticing little things in my parish (our very straight-as-an-arrow pastor, for example, still celebrates with a crystal chalice and ciborium, not a paten at all). Our music director is an excellent arranger/composer. He has started taking the introits and the antiphons from the missal and setting them to music so that they are chanted (by the choir, anyway) in English. It is very beautiful. I’ve been to the 5:30 Sunday evening Mass, which is taken by the youth choir, and I must say, even with the guitars, it is well done…I just happen not to like it. There doesn’t seem to be room for silence or reflection at Mass these days.
 
There is nothing wrong with guitar at Mass, per se, although the music should be fitting and appropriate. (Much of what I hear is neither.) Official Church documents do not preclude the use of various instruments at Mass. The organ was once a “newfangled” instrument, so I suppose it was controversial once upon a time, too.

I am a classically trained guitarist and have played at Mass for nearly four decades. I do not do the “Catholic strum,” and unless directed otherwise, I select traditional Catholic hymns and classical music when I play at Mass.

'thann
 
I grew up with the Latin Mass and I have both those things at our parish. I see nothing wrong with either one as they are reverent and the priests are great about their homilies. I know of a parish downtown that does a Latin Mass, but I haven’t had time to attend. To me it’s a non-issue unless someone can show me where the Vatican says different.
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/cart127.gif
 
As has already been noted, guitars (and other instruments, including drums) are permitted at Mass. The first world countries have sort of adopted the organ as our instrument (although the greatest of organ composers, Bach, was Lutheran). Music, regardless of what instrument is used, is there only to lift our hearts and minds to God in prayer. It is, frankly, not there for the musicians to do performances. Sadly, that does still happen.

I’m a classically trained musician (piano, guitar, flute, organ and recorder, in that order) and love hearing polyphonic Masses – I am transported to heaven whenever I hear Palestrina. Yet some of the modern music speaks to me just as well. Music is, and probably always will be, a matter of personal taste. We had a music director in my parish who scheduled music I hated – but that was because his taste and mine almost never touched the same universe, let alone the same place. So, you learn to live with it.

Holding hands during the Our Father is a thing that arose spontaneously from the people. Although the bishops have said this is not a liturgical action, and have even looked at the secular meaning and the Protestant usage of this action, they haven’t addressed the reason for it. Whenever there is a lay-led movement it is because the institutional Church is not meeting their needs.

The development of most of the private devotions came about because the Mass was not touching the people, and they needed something they could do, something they could understand and give to God. The holding of hands is a sign of community, and it shows that the people do recognize that they gather as the Body of Christ in corporate worship. It also shows that catechesis on the true sign of unity, the Eucharist, has been missing for so long that the people have developed their own way to express a valid reality.

Rather than condemn the action, we need to understand what lies beneath it, see if there’s a problem, and then fix the problem!

One final thought: the orans position does not belong to the priest, it is the traditional posture for prayer derived from, at least, Jewish times. In the Byzantine tradition the people always pray the Lord’s prayer (Our Father) with their hands in the orans position.

Deacon Ed
 
The endless griping and complaining over liturgical style and form is a major factor why people like my wife are skeptical of the Catholic faith and remain at heart, generic Christians.

When I go to Mass, I don’t go to fulfill some obligation, or to demonstrate how well I can recite the creeds and that I know when to sit or stand or kneel. I go to Mass to assemble together with the Body of Christ…the People of God. I go to Mass to hear the Word of God proclaimed, to unite together with others in prayer, and to receive the Body of Christ in conjunction with the Body of Christ. I go to participate…to allow Christ to minister through me as a lector, as a cantor or choir member, a eucharistic minister, an altar server, an usher, or to whatever lay vocational service that the Lord has called me to that day.

I firmly believe that like-minded people should seek out like-minded congregations. If the Latin Mass is important to some, then, by all means, go find a Catholic Church that offers it.

I, for one, like the picture of the altar that is displayed in this thread. I would have no problem worshipping together with others at such a place where the decor is so welcoming.
 
4 marks:
I, for one, like the picture of the altar that is displayed in this thread. I would have no problem worshipping together with others at such a place where the decor is so welcoming.
Click to expand...
I like the way the altar area looks, too, but this is not about decor. It’s about compliance with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, which clearly states there is to be a crucifix on or near the altar. If there is not, the consecration is illicit (not invalid, thank goodness, but what is the law there for if not to be obeyed?)
 
40.png
Cherub:
I like the way the altar area looks, too, but this is not about decor. It’s about compliance with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, which clearly states there is to be a crucifix on or near the altar. If there is not, the consecration is illicit (not invalid, thank goodness, but what is the law there for if not to be obeyed?)
Click to expand...
May I ask if the photo is of a conscecrated church?
 
I know all too well of what dumspiro is speaking. We live in the same diocese and have been members of the Cathedral parish for over 20 years. Although I am currently on hiatus, I sang in the Cathedral choir for 19 years. We drive 25 miles to attend and have done so for over 20 years. Why? The church parish in which I reside is like a social center for the elderly. Yack, yack, yack before Mass; yack, yack, yack, while people are trying to go to confession. I don’t want to hear about someone’s hemorrhoids or the latest sale at Walmart while I am trying to pray or to examine my conscience before going to confession. I am not making this up. All this takes place at normal or loud conversational level. These folks are 10 yrs older or more than me. I was an altar boy just before Vatican II. I know these folks should know better.

Then comes the Mass. “Turn around and welcome your neighbor”. Yack, yack, yack again. I came to Mass, not to attend a social club. And the “choir”…Electric guitars, keyboard, drums…off key horribly and what were they “singing”? Oh, it’s Advent! Let’s sing “Prepare ye the way of the Lord” from Jesus Christ Superstar…Sway, strum, sway, strum. You can speak all you want about worshiping with the congregation in the style they like, but what in Our Dear Lord’s Name happened to reverence and holy awe?

And then comes the Lord’s Prayer. Sorry folks, I don’t want to hold hands and raise them up. I understand the orans posture but what ever happened to being able to place one’s hands in a prayerful attitude or beating one’s breast during the Angus Dei? When was the last time anyone recited the Confiteor? What happened to reverence and holy awe?

Dumspirospero has it right. He has named the only two churches in our diocese which maintain the Traditions of Holy Mother Church. Maybe sometime I’ll relate to you the story of having to get permission from our local parish to join the Cathedral parish.
 
40.png
katherine2:
May I ask if the photo is of a conscecrated church?
Click to expand...
The parish history write-up at the diocesan web site states:

“Plans became reality in November 1989, when Bishop (later Archbishop) John F. Donoghue of Charlotte dedicated the newly constructed St. James Church during the pastorate of Father Myles Quail.”

Are “dedicated” and “consecrated” the same?
 
Brotherhrolf…my long lost friend…it is great to find someone who shares my views…I hope we can meet up and attend Mass together…please send me a PM…I am much younger than you…but I promise I am “old school” LOL 🙂 Take care and God Bless…I hope to see you at Mass.
40.png
brotherhrolf:
I know all too well of what dumspiro is speaking. We live in the same diocese and have been members of the Cathedral parish for over 20 years. Although I am currently on hiatus, I sang in the Cathedral choir for 19 years. We drive 25 miles to attend and have done so for over 20 years. Why? The church parish in which I reside is like a social center for the elderly. Yack, yack, yack before Mass; yack, yack, yack, while people are trying to go to confession. I don’t want to hear about someone’s hemorrhoids or the latest sale at Walmart while I am trying to pray or to examine my conscience before going to confession. I am not making this up. All this takes place at normal or loud conversational level. These folks are 10 yrs older or more than me. I was an altar boy just before Vatican II. I know these folks should know better.

Then comes the Mass. “Turn around and welcome your neighbor”. Yack, yack, yack again. I came to Mass, not to attend a social club. And the “choir”…Electric guitars, keyboard, drums…off key horribly and what were they “singing”? Oh, it’s Advent! Let’s sing “Prepare ye the way of the Lord” from Jesus Christ Superstar…Sway, strum, sway, strum. You can speak all you want about worshiping with the congregation in the style they like, but what in Our Dear Lord’s Name happened to reverence and holy awe?

And then comes the Lord’s Prayer. Sorry folks, I don’t want to hold hands and raise them up. I understand the orans posture but what ever happened to being able to place one’s hands in a prayerful attitude or beating one’s breast during the Angus Dei? When was the last time anyone recited the Confiteor? What happened to reverence and holy awe?

Dumspirospero has it right. He has named the only two churches in our diocese which maintain the Traditions of Holy Mother Church. Maybe sometime I’ll relate to you the story of having to get permission from our local parish to join the Cathedral parish.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top