Hand Holding and Guitars at Mass?

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how can you play the guitar, or the organ for that matter, if your are holding hands?
 
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Cherub:
I like the way the altar area looks, too, but this is not about decor. It’s about compliance with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, which clearly states there is to be a crucifix on or near the altar. If there is not, the consecration is illicit (not invalid, thank goodness, but what is the law there for if not to be obeyed?)
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No, the consecration is not illicit. You need to study a little more Canon Law before you start throwing that around.
 
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puzzleannie:
how can you play the guitar, or the organ for that matter, if your are holding hands?
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During the hand holding, the liturgical dancers wear tap shoes and perform a vaudeville pantomime of the “Our Creator” (remember to be inclusive in our language!)

Wow, 100th post already.
 
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otm:
No, the consecration is not illicit. You need to study a little more Canon Law before you start throwing that around.
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CANON 932 ss 2:
The eucharistic sacrifice must be carried out on a dedicated or blessed altar; outside a a sacred place, a suitable table can be used, always with a cloth or corporal.

(Codex Iuris Canonici from the Canon Law Society of America 1999 edition)
 
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puzzleannie:
how can you play the guitar, or the organ for that matter, if your are holding hands?
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Strum with your teeth.

It makes it hard to sing “Kum ba yah”, though.
 
My Gosh

I was converted 50 years ago to the Catholic Faith. I am almost 69 years old.
I pray, I do not have to leave the Faith to get away from this stuff.

Pope John XXIII opened Vatican II because he said we needed to get the cobwebs swept out. We needed to rid ourselves of a continuous legalistic mindset. We needed to get back to involving the entire Body of Christ in the Holy Mass. We needed to let folks see that Holy Mother Church was big enoug to embrace many people.

Many of the Threads and Discussions here in Catholic Answers have been so negative that it is driving me away from the Faith I loved so much. If this is what the Mystical Body of Christ is coming to, and I find it hard to believe this is what Jesus had in mind for His Church, I am not fitting in. How very sad.
 
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otm:
No, the consecration is not illicit. You need to study a little more Canon Law before you start throwing that around.
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I have not studied Canon Law, and I don’t have time to. But I did have time to ask an apologist about this some time ago. As I said in my post, this is according to the GIRM, not Canon Law anyway.
 
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Cherub:
Unfortunately, this is all I have ever experienced. To top it off, we don’t even have a single indult Latin Mass in the entire diocese of Charlotte. Our priest often bungles the Gospel readings and talks right out into the congregation about how confused he is about what page to find things on, etc… We don’t even have a crucifix in the altar area, just a giant, plain white Risen Lord statue behind the altar – no cross at all – and I’ve been to two Masses where the priest didn’t have any assistants, therefore not even the processional crucifix was present during consecration. For Christmas, they strung up strings of lights all over Jesus’ arms and behind him. There is never a moment’s quiet when you enter this church, despite the fact we are proud of having a narthex; instead, everyone waits until they are inside to start talking. Inside is also where you will find those guitar strummers rehearsing, right up until the bells ring and the procession begins. Off to the side is a Eucharistic Chapel, but no one can pray there because someone is always blazing away on a guitar, or going in and out the door that opens right up to the rear parking lot.

Sorry. I had to get that off my chest.

http://www.mclaurinweb.com/stjames.gif
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Tell your priest he needs to get a crucifix behind the altar. The statues are great but need moved.
 
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dumspirospero:
I found it to be lacking and full of what I consider liturgical abuse…maybe I am just paranoid…there were a couple of things that struck me as strange. First, they had a band instead of a choir and they had guitars and other instruments and it was very annoying and it upset me…is it proper to have guitars, etc. at Mass…furthermore, as if that wasn’t enough…everybody started holding hands during the “Our Father”…Has anyone else experienced this type of stuff before?
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Wow - you don’t get out much do ya?😃

This has been going on for YEARS. The guitar thing doesn’t bother me as long as it tasteful - not a rock concert. I grew up with guitar at Mass so I’m used to it. When they bring out the bongos and marraccas (sp?) that IS annoying. This is my old parish we’re talking about here. And for some reason we were saying th Kyrie in Spanish for a while (this is a not an area with many Spanish speaking people.)

The holding hands thing was at my old parish since I would say late seveties/early eighties? When you don’t know your not supposed to and that’s what you grew up with it seems very normal. It’s very wide spread in the parishes in my area. Definately an eye opener for someone used to the TLM though.
 
I dont do the whole “protestan band” thing at mass. (guitars pianos and drums). I go to mass to worship Jesus not get into a mosh pit or rock out with my fellow parishoners.
 
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A.Pelliccio:
I go to mass to worship Jesus not get into a mosh pit or rock out with my fellow parishoners.
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As do we all. I have never seen a Mass mosh.
 
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Cherub:
I like the way the altar area looks, too, but this is not about decor. It’s about compliance with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, which clearly states there is to be a crucifix on or near the altar. If there is not, the consecration is illicit (not invalid, thank goodness, but what is the law there for if not to be obeyed?)
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Does this include Mass at a prison? When I was involved in prison ministry as a seminarian, the priest chaplain had a suitcase. The altar was a fold down table. The priest had two candles, a paten, a chalice, a sacramentary, cruets, and some unconsecrated hosts. He wore plain clothes and a stole.

Obeying the law in the strict sense is largely a northern European (British, Irish, Polish, Germanic) point of view. For instance, this is the same mentality that says if one is driving 56 mph in a 55 mph zone, they should receive a ticket for driving over the speed limit. The southern European (French, Italian, Spanish) perspective, in my estimation, is more practical. This point of view would say it is perfectly acceptable to go through a red light if no cars are coming.
 
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robertaf:
My Gosh

I was converted 50 years ago to the Catholic Faith. I am almost 69 years old.
I pray, I do not have to leave the Faith to get away from this stuff.

Pope John XXIII opened Vatican II because he said we needed to get the cobwebs swept out. We needed to rid ourselves of a continuous legalistic mindset. We needed to get back to involving the entire Body of Christ in the Holy Mass. We needed to let folks see that Holy Mother Church was big enoug to embrace many people.

Many of the Threads and Discussions here in Catholic Answers have been so negative that it is driving me away from the Faith I loved so much. If this is what the Mystical Body of Christ is coming to, and I find it hard to believe this is what Jesus had in mind for His Church, I am not fitting in. How very sad.
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Robert,

God’s peace be with you.

If the posting here get you down, you might want to do what I do. I look around at the people in my parish and my community. I find such faith filled, loving, inclusive, kind and happy people. Don’t be overly influenced by some of the negative and bitter comments you see posted here.
 
Not so in Placerville, but when I went to a parish in Fresno, CA the Sunday 10 am mass would include guitar music (acoustic and just strumming along to church songs). Also there would be hand holding during the “Our Father”. Usually they would respect your wish not to hold hands if you clasped your hands instead of reaching for their hand in return. I do recall a few “grabbers” who clasped my hand no matter what.

The bishop in the Sacramento diocese does not allow the hand holding during the “Our Father” at all. I think a guitar can be tastefully used at my parish in Placerville, I just do not recall seeing one at Mass yet.
 
Just for the record, I am not at all bitter about anything with my parish. I love it very much, and the priests and parishioners have their hearts in the right place. That is absolutely all that matters to me at the bottom line, so my apologies are here for any who found my descriptions of yesterday to be uncharitable and harsh. I do not consider myself to be one of those people who would make someone fed up with Catholicism due to my knit-picking over liturgical issues, but I see how it could seem that way from my frustration lately.

Some very wonderful and good things about my parish are:

The guitar music (while strummy at times) is very reverently done. Most of the hymns I hear there are the “classics” in fact. It does not at all sound like 60’s rally music. I have come to like it very much. They do have organ music, too, which I am partial to.

Our two priests are actually Benedictine brothers – one, an Abbot. They are not diocesan priests, so naturally their approach to things is going to be different than a standard seminarian/diocesans would be. It is refreshing to experience different kinds of priests.

There is a huge and growing Hispanic community in our parish. I love the flavor they bring, the color and sense of celebration they add to everything. That is one of the things I love about the Catholic faith in general-- the true diversity of people you find at Mass. The Catholic Mass transcends cultural, racial, and economic boundaries.

We have a dedicated team of Christian educators teaching classes for youth through adults, and a parish secretary who makes sure things run smoothly and are carried off with grace and style.

We have a hillside grotto for prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary outside, and a large area for parish picnics. Near Easter, our Hispanic members put on a live re-enactment of the last supper and crucifixion (Via Crucis) that is soul-stirring to watch.

I have decided to spend more time from now on enjoying the presence of Jesus at my parish, enjoying the people and all that is good there-- and less time noticing little things not done
exactly this or that way. That does not bring happiness or promote a spirit of charity and love.
 
Dont be disturbed, maybe when you converted to the church 50 years ago, there obviously was something that drew you to the faith. This is not negative, you see, this is constructive, when the liberals were doing this in the 40’s and 50’s and 60’s, it was not called negative, but it was a “rebirth” and all the like. And the liberals got their way, hijacked a Council, implemented all their fake and false worships in this new “Rebirth and sweeping out the cobwebs”, what has occurred is a falling away from the faith, the faith that drew you to the church 50 years ago,the church were the seminaries were filled, where mothers and fathers encouraged their sons to enter the Priesthood and not steer them away, where people worshipped God, and noteachother.

Sit tight and in the next 20 years or so either the church will be orthodox again with the pews filled, or it will become an empty bastion for woman and homosexual “ministers”, with no property and fine art to speak of as it will all need to be sold to pay off more of the abuse victims these gay priests continue to prey on. And if you really want to hear the teachings of the church taught, you will need to go to a “traditional” chapel. The only thing is that by that time, they will no longer be called Traditional, they will probably just call themselves Catholic because what you have now and for sure 20 years from now sure is not Catholic.
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robertaf:
My Gosh

I was converted 50 years ago to the Catholic Faith. I am almost 69 years old.
I pray, I do not have to leave the Faith to get away from this stuff.

Pope John XXIII opened Vatican II because he said we needed to get the cobwebs swept out. We needed to rid ourselves of a continuous legalistic mindset. We needed to get back to involving the entire Body of Christ in the Holy Mass. We needed to let folks see that Holy Mother Church was big enoug to embrace many people.

Many of the Threads and Discussions here in Catholic Answers have been so negative that it is driving me away from the Faith I loved so much. If this is what the Mystical Body of Christ is coming to, and I find it hard to believe this is what Jesus had in mind for His Church, I am not fitting in. How very sad.
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Wow, what a unique CAF thread! :rolleyes: Catholics arguing about guitars and handholding while Rome burns! :eek:
 
That altar is sick, demented and belongs in a heathen church, instead of you telling others to go find a church that offers the Latin Mass, why dont all of the liberals who are so bent on changing things go find a good Protestant church and leave us Catholics, and those 70-80% who left it all together and no longer go because of the lack of reverence and feel they “get nothing out if it anymore” have Our Church back. It was the church after Vatican II that actually Left the church, not anyone here who either has left to go to a Trad church or who wants to hold the teachings of the church and not be heretical, as most of the new teachings are. How can something that was taught for 1900 years all of a sudden be wrong, as well as a Mass that edified and fed millions be BANNED over night. Agenda maybe?
4 marks:
The endless griping and complaining over liturgical style and form is a major factor why people like my wife are skeptical of the Catholic faith and remain at heart, generic Christians.

When I go to Mass, I don’t go to fulfill some obligation, or to demonstrate how well I can recite the creeds and that I know when to sit or stand or kneel. I go to Mass to assemble together with the Body of Christ…the People of God. I go to Mass to hear the Word of God proclaimed, to unite together with others in prayer, and to receive the Body of Christ in conjunction with the Body of Christ. I go to participate…to allow Christ to minister through me as a lector, as a cantor or choir member, a eucharistic minister, an altar server, an usher, or to whatever lay vocational service that the Lord has called me to that day.

I firmly believe that like-minded people should seek out like-minded congregations. If the Latin Mass is important to some, then, by all means, go find a Catholic Church that offers it.

I, for one, like the picture of the altar that is displayed in this thread. I would have no problem worshipping together with others at such a place where the decor is so welcoming.
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