Hand holding and Raising during the "Our Father"

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At an Orthodox Divine Liturgy today a family was holding hands during the Our Father.

It seems that they are former Roman Catholics and they brought the custom with them.

Small world.
 
Greetings Church

We do hold hands in our parish. We all, mostly seem to like it.
There are a few older ladies (older than me) who also continually crab because we bring the grandchildren up to the front rows. One told me to move them because “my husband and I always sit there” . I moved the little ones to the other end of the pew but kept them in the front row where they could see and here.

These old gals always glare at us when we hold hands as a family. One snapped, “don’t touch me!” when my kindergarten grandson reached for her hand. He happens to be bi-racial and was just recovering from a racial slur the children received at a restaraunt so this did not go over well with him. He wanted to go home right then.

Aw well, we do hold hands and like doing it. But that is just us.
 
When I came back to the Church about 20 years ago I used to do it (because everyone else did), but never got comfortable with it. I finally realized I didn’t *have * to, so quit. I don’t like the handholding, and like the hand *raising * even less (seems so revival-tent).

I now have a 3yo daughter that I’m trying to teach to fold her hands, but she’s looking around at everyone else holding hands and winds up not doing anything.

Isn’t it ironic that something meant to be unifying winds up being divisive?!

Debbie
 
There was an interesting thread about the orans position recently that covered a lot of these same issues.

First, I don’t have a big problem with the hand-holding but it took me years to get used to it. Now I go to a parish that has never done it (Byzantine) and I have gotten out of the habit.

What really bugs me is the mention of people staking out pews, and demanding to be able to sit in a favored place, even rousting out someone already there!

Shame on them.

To tell you the truth, I have always been delighted when little kids wanted to hold my hand in church, it is like a blessing, it really is! I cannot think of a more pleasant way to say a prayer! The thing is, I am a stranger to them and it is always a lot simpler if they offer their hand to me.

In the parish I belong to now, a lot of us stand. We ripped out about 40% of the pews (what do you do when we rip out your pew? 😉 ). We look after each others little children (I don’t have any, but I’ll hold 'em!) and sometimes we read and chant off of each other’s handouts when there aren’t enough, the teens are great about offering to share and they will hold the sheets and turn the pages.

We have a great sense of community, but we don’t hold hands 🙂
 
Here (Philippines) the Orans position is pretty widespread. I notice hand holding between families but not usually throughout the whole church.

My wife is used to the Orans, and we hold hands when together (not that I totally agree with it), while keeping my other hand in Orans without holding the fellow next to me, but I keep my hands folded when alone.

The position of hands at the Pater Noster is not an issue here. No one has raised any howls as far as I can remember.
 
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Hesychios:
In the parish I belong to now, a lot of us stand. We ripped out about 40% of the pews (what do you do when we rip out your pew? 😉 ). We look after each others little children (I don’t have any, but I’ll hold 'em!) and sometimes we read and chant off of each other’s handouts when there aren’t enough, the teens are great about offering to share and they will hold the sheets and turn the pages.

We have a great sense of community, but we don’t hold hands 🙂
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When you are in a church with no pews, you buy pews or you kneel on the floor. 🙂
 
Nobody holds hands during the Our Father at my Parish

About 3/4 Do raise hands during Our Father (Me included)

I have no problem with those who do hold hands…though I wouldnt do it.

The Church is correct in saying either way…its up to the people.

Since the Church allows people to choose to receive Communion in various ways…ie…hand or tongue…then how can some holding hands or not cause disunity? IT CANNOT.

Recieving the Eucharist is a GREATER ACT than whether one holds or not holds hands during the Our Father… I think some prespective is needed here for those who are overly bothered by this. 🙂
 
Referring to post #10: Very good Panis Angelicas. You bring out some good points. I am against hand holding and I believe I have read that the orans position is definately not acceptable. I believe I read in the GIRM that it is reserved for the ordained only. If that is not correct someone correct me. In my parrish about 90% hold hands and about 60% do orans when saying “And also to you”

I had to say very good to Panis because they took away the reputation point system and I could not use the old method to give a :thumbsup:to someone who made a good point.
 
A few of the threads have mentioned that hand holding during the Our Father seemed very Protestant. As a recovering Protestant of 39 years, I can say that the first time I ever held hands (to the best of my recollection) was at mass during the Our Father. I have mixed feelings about hand holding during the Our Father, and I can see both sides. If an Archbishop has come out directly and stated that it is not wrong, then the anti-hand-holders should at least consider that.
As far as shaking someone’s hand during the sign of peace, I know of no source anywhere that indicates that it’s wrong. It seems to me to be a quick, unobtrusive way to follow Christ’s command to love one another. It is also a directive by the priest, who has authority over me. Anyone who refuses to shake hands at the sign of peace is rude in my book. A lack of curtesy like that cannot be explained away by piety. Christ commanded us to love God AND love our neighbor.
 
I think of hand-holding as Protestant I assume because that’s how my Protestant relatives pray at the dinner table and when I see them out.

As far as the sign of peace, I don’t recall doing that when I was young (am I nuts or just blocked it out?). I’m not really comfortable shaking hands…it’s definitely not because I’m rude, I’m just not touchy-feely. Of course I shake those immediately adjacent to me, but do I go out of my way? Hardly. Doesn’t mean I don’t love 'em. Another thing, at daily Mass, the parishioners who are not in hand-shaking distance flash the peace sign. I always think of Richard Nixon (and the words "I am not a criminal) when I see that sign. I wave, but I can’t bring myself to do that peace sign either. I guess I’m uptight…

JELane
 
nearly everyone in my church does it and this has all happened within the last year… i can tell you i just cant stand it!! Not because im not touchy feely… well that could be part of it 😉 But really it’s just weird. I can see holding hands within your family, but this reaching across pews and aisles to grab the sweaty palm of that person who really doesnt want you to touch him/her is just stupid. I quit thinking about the prayer because im so caught up in the “i dont want to be doing this!” im really gonna have to stand my ground… its just difficult because on the times when i dont offer my hand, i’ve had hands put on my shoulder… ew. as if the looking down and clutching my own hands in front of me wasnt enough hint that I DONT WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND ok. enough of that. sorry about the rant!
 
WOW…I didn’t realize how passionate some people were. It’s had to believe but now i understand why there are so many problems in the catholic church. Too many SELF-CENTERED
and SELF-ABSORBED people. The ones who do not want to be touched or reach out are probably the same ones who run for the door right after the Eucharist (“Do not stop at GO do not receive the Final Blessing” or try to get out of the parking lot as fast as you can.)

I enjoy holding hands, first with my immediate family and second with my extended family (the church member next to me). But what does the church say about this? Pope Leo XIII and Pope John Paul II were very clear on this point:

Pope Leo XIII: Thus, the separation which pride would set up tends to disappear, nor will it be difficult to make rich and poor join hands in friendly concord.

Pope John Paul II: Coming together, they are able to discuss their most intimate aspirations, experience the Church as communion, make a commitment to the urgent task of new evangelization. And in doing so, they join hands, forming an immense circle of friendship, uniting in faith in the Risen Lord all the different races and nations, cultures and experiences.

Pope John Paul II: I am convinced that if we join hands in the name of God we can accomplish much good .

I hope I am seated next to you in the Mass, I’ll extend my hand to you, my Christian Brother or Sister. Whether or not you take my offering is between you and God.
 
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otm:
Archbishop Chaput recently came out with a statement that it is neither prohibited nor allowed by the rubrics, and if people want to hold hands, they should be allowed to, and if they don’t want to hold hands, they should also be allowed (to not hold hands), and either way, it should not cause a “holy commotion”…

There have been a number of threads on this matter. I haven’t done a nose count, but it seems to upset some people. 😃
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What your bishop said makes no sense… if it’s not allowed in the rubrics, it is automatically disallowed. The rubrics aren’t written to say everything that is NOT allowed. It would be literally impossible to write every single thing down that is not allowed. It doesn’t say a Priest can’t do cartwheels in procession, so by your bishop’s examination, that means it is OK. In any event, I picked the first (no one does it) because I attend Traditional Latin Mass, where we actually follow what the rubrics say. God bless.
 
“The ones who do not want to be touched or reach out are probably the same ones who run for the door right after the Eucharist (“Do not stop at GO do not receive the Final Blessing” or try to get out of the parking lot as fast as you can.)”

No… they (we) just want to: 1) follow the rubrics 2) not act like protestants.
 
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Michael:
…I am against hand holding and I believe I have read that the orans position is definately not acceptable…
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Our Bishop (Diocese of Columbus, Ohio) just came out with his interpretation of the revisions to the G.I.R.M. He has decided that the norm in the Diocese is for the congregation to assume the orans during the Lord’s Prayer. Handholding (in addition to the orans) is optional.

Strange days.

Blessings.
 
About 2 years ago here in LA, Cardinal Mahony issued instructions to all of the parishes that congregants were ***not ***to join hands during the Our Father. He stated that the proper posture was the *orans *position, each person standing with his palms raised.
 
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dhgray:
The ones who do not want to be touched or reach out are probably the same ones who run for the door right after the Eucharist
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Guess again…I’m ordinarily the last person out of the church, and enjoy being in there for thanksgiving long after most have left. And which would you prefer–seeing someone with a genuine and warm smile look right into your eyes, say “Peace be with you,” and saying it in such a way that you just know I mean it, that you just know for that split second I ask God to give you his blessings…or that I slap my hand into yours, bear it, and not be able to wait to withdraw my hand as I am uncomfortable? And this goes double for hand holding for the Our Father…I may have to for the sign of peace, but not for the Our Father.

I guess this has helped me in seeing that people who do hold hands are no less judgmental than I am.

And just like wearing shorts in church–I really don’t care what anyone else does with their hands.

JELane
 
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larryo:
About 2 years ago here in LA, Cardinal Mahony issued instructions to all of the parishes that congregants were ***not ***to join hands during the Our Father. He stated that the proper posture was the *orans *position, each person standing with his palms raised.
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I don’t understand where our Bishop is coming from in prescribing the orans. I don’t see it in the GIRM, but he has the pointy hat, not me, so I am trying to adapt.

My problem with it has always been with the laity imitating the gestures of the ordained. The priest is directed to the orans during the Lord’s Prayer. The deacon (whose gestures are also prescribed in the GIRM) is not directed to the orans. If the laity is standing there in the orans and the deacon is not, that seems a bit weird.

Also, our priest joins his hands at the end of the the embolism (deliver us…) between the Lord’s Prayer and the doxology and keeps them joined through the doxology, extending them again at the start of the sign of peace (as described in the GIRM). Again, if the congregation is standing there in the orans during the doxology with the priest standing with his hands joined, that seems weird to me.

But I am trying to be a obedient fellow, so orans it shall be I guess (or as close to it as I can muster in my own humble way).

But I have no intention of holding hands. :cool:
 
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dhgray:
WOW…I didn’t realize how passionate some people were. It’s had to believe but now i understand why there are so many problems in the catholic church. Too many SELF-CENTERED
and SELF-ABSORBED people. The ones who do not want to be touched or reach out are probably the same ones who run for the door right after the Eucharist (“Do not stop at GO do not receive the Final Blessing” or try to get out of the parking lot as fast as you can.)
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Actually the self-centered and self-absorbed one’s are those who insist on foisting this un-mandated practice upon others and judge them in this way just because they follow the rules.
But what does the church say about this?
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Pope Leo XIII and Pope John Paul II were very clear on this point:

Pope Leo XIII: Thus, the separation which pride would set up tends to disappear, nor will it be difficult to make rich and poor join hands in friendly concord.

Pope John Paul II: Coming together, they are able to discuss their most intimate aspirations, experience the Church as communion, make a commitment to the urgent task of new evangelization. And in doing so, they join hands, forming an immense circle of friendship, uniting in faith in the Risen Lord all the different races and nations, cultures and experiences.

Pope John Paul II: I am convinced that if we join hands in the name of God we can accomplish much good .]

You’re kidding, right? It’s pretty clear that the passages cited above are about cooperation, fellowship and friendship in general and not literallly about holding hands at Mass! :rolleyes:

I would reiterate what I said about this on a previous thread:
I am astounded that people are going to so much trouble to defend any un-mandated action that, effectively, forces other people, willing or not, to participate. If someone wants to individually whirl like a dervish or bounce on one foot, or pick their I don’t know what and it makes them feel holier to do so during Mass, then go for it. But for goodness sakes, just because it makes you feel good, don’t insist on defending and promoting an un-mandated practice that makes others feel like boors if they don’t feel the same way about it and decline to play along.
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