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otjm
Guest
Just possibly because they have bigger fish to fry…
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otjm
Guest
A little background might be of help.
In 1975, commenting on the practice, the Vatican’s Congregation for Divine Worship did not forbid the holding of hands but said “it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics.”
to the best of my knowledge, with several revisions of the GIRM, that status remains as far as Rome is concerned; nor has Rome spoken on the matter in other corrections of liturgical acts.
that means that for over 43 years, Rome has been aware of the issue of holding hands, and at repeated periods where the matter would be addressed, they have chosen to not address it.
Archbishop Chaput in at least one open letter ( and it may be that he issued 2 on the matter) noted in late 2002 - early 2003 the following: "The priest stands with his arms outstretched as the prayer begins. The assembly should also stand. There are no options for gestures listed in the General Instruction for this part of the Mass.
None of these gestures is mandated or forbidden by the Church. So our guiding principles should be respect for the dignity of the Mass, and respect for the freedom of our fellow worshipers."
He said further: “Some people feel that holding hands during the “Our Father” enhances a sense of community. This is perfectly appropriate - so long as it can be done with dignity and without the unseemly acrobatics that sometimes ensue.”
He spoke as chief liturgist of his Colorado diocese, and he is not what I would call a liberal, by any means.
As I said above, I don’t have a dog in the fight. I normally sit with my brother and sister-in-law for Sunday Mass, and as they do not hold hands, I don’t either, unless the person next to me on the other side wishes to; at which, in charity, I respond. If someone does not want to hold hands, they are perfectly fine in not doing so; and the opposite likewise.
My parish a few years ago lost a priest over a sex abuse case. Some years ago in another parish, we lost our pastor to death because of AIDS.
I try to keep things in focus, and I personally find there are more important issues to be concerned about, and to get my attention.
In 1975, commenting on the practice, the Vatican’s Congregation for Divine Worship did not forbid the holding of hands but said “it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics.”
to the best of my knowledge, with several revisions of the GIRM, that status remains as far as Rome is concerned; nor has Rome spoken on the matter in other corrections of liturgical acts.
that means that for over 43 years, Rome has been aware of the issue of holding hands, and at repeated periods where the matter would be addressed, they have chosen to not address it.
Archbishop Chaput in at least one open letter ( and it may be that he issued 2 on the matter) noted in late 2002 - early 2003 the following: "The priest stands with his arms outstretched as the prayer begins. The assembly should also stand. There are no options for gestures listed in the General Instruction for this part of the Mass.
None of these gestures is mandated or forbidden by the Church. So our guiding principles should be respect for the dignity of the Mass, and respect for the freedom of our fellow worshipers."
He said further: “Some people feel that holding hands during the “Our Father” enhances a sense of community. This is perfectly appropriate - so long as it can be done with dignity and without the unseemly acrobatics that sometimes ensue.”
He spoke as chief liturgist of his Colorado diocese, and he is not what I would call a liberal, by any means.
As I said above, I don’t have a dog in the fight. I normally sit with my brother and sister-in-law for Sunday Mass, and as they do not hold hands, I don’t either, unless the person next to me on the other side wishes to; at which, in charity, I respond. If someone does not want to hold hands, they are perfectly fine in not doing so; and the opposite likewise.
My parish a few years ago lost a priest over a sex abuse case. Some years ago in another parish, we lost our pastor to death because of AIDS.
I try to keep things in focus, and I personally find there are more important issues to be concerned about, and to get my attention.
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bobperk
Guest
I hope you’re right. Can’t stand it.
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Pup7
Guest
Or people could just assume that not everyone wants to do it.
Why should I have to make a gesture to show others I don’t want to participate in theirs? I think we all learned at a very young age to keep our hands to ourselves.
It’s fair to hold one’s hand out. It’s also respectful for that person to not pursue it when the offeree does not take it. So that should be the end of it.
But I’m reading there are some grabby Catholics out there who don’t do that. It’s manners.
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twf
Guest
The norm for the sign of peace here in Vancouver has been gradually shifting from a handshake to a simple bow of the head. This is due to the massive Asian influence. I welcome it 
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Holding hands? Ha! Never around here.
.Holding hands? Ha! Never around here.
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CTBcin
Guest
I choose not to hold hands because I’ve never been into touchy-feely stuff- at least not during worship. But I don’t have too much of a fit if other people decide to hold hands.
One time, in my early years of college, I folded my hands during the Our Father and the girl next to me forceably grabbed my hand to hold it. It was very awkward, to say the least!
One time, in my early years of college, I folded my hands during the Our Father and the girl next to me forceably grabbed my hand to hold it. It was very awkward, to say the least!
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Uliana988
Guest
I’ve had my hands pried apart so that the person next to me could hold hands with me during the Lord’s Prayer. 
This was a visiting monastic of some sort.
This was a visiting monastic of some sort.
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brian_custer
Guest
show me where in the rock solid rubric of the baltimore catechism where we are “required to hold hands”
it is utter childess nonsense
a leftover from '70’s new AGE NONSENSE
it is utter childess nonsense
a leftover from '70’s new AGE NONSENSE
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brian_custer
Guest
that is exactly the response my pastor said;
“holding hands” is not in the rubrics; but if you mind-dead automatons want to “hold hands”; then so be it
well i’ve got the parish mortgage to pay; so ; this isn’t a battle i’m willing to deal with
“holding hands” is not in the rubrics; but if you mind-dead automatons want to “hold hands”; then so be it
well i’ve got the parish mortgage to pay; so ; this isn’t a battle i’m willing to deal with
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MrsLewisByDay
Guest
As a newcomer, thank you for this. I am always afraid that I will offend someone by doing something incorrectly or by failing to do something altogether. However, the more I get to know my parish and Catholics in general, the more I realize how sweet and understanding they are.
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otjm
Guest
And that is plain flat wrong. Whoever did this owes you respect. None was given.
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otjm
Guest
I have a little more respect for Archbishop Chaput’s letter than to call it 70’s New Age nonsense. And the Baltimore Catechism did not address rubrics.
You are certainly welcome to not hold hands, In charity, you are equally welcome to not criticize others.
My parish has had Perpetual Adoration for something like 25 years and has been holding hands longer than that; 3 priests, two women in orders, and two deacons - I would hardly call it New Age.
If you don’t like it, fine. No problem. But underneath your critique is a judgement on the spirituality of others who do.
You are certainly welcome to not hold hands, In charity, you are equally welcome to not criticize others.
My parish has had Perpetual Adoration for something like 25 years and has been holding hands longer than that; 3 priests, two women in orders, and two deacons - I would hardly call it New Age.
If you don’t like it, fine. No problem. But underneath your critique is a judgement on the spirituality of others who do.
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otjm
Guest
It might have been better if she was really cute… 
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otjm
Guest
Most of our mothers tried to teach manners…
It doesn’t take a sociologist to note that not all learned the lesson.
It doesn’t take a sociologist to note that not all learned the lesson.
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Pup7
Guest
Touching someone uninvited is battery, plain and simple. That’s my point. It doesn’t take a law degree to know that.Most of our mothers tried to teach manners…
It doesn’t take a sociologist to note that not all learned the lesson.
I expect adults to keep their hands to themselves in church, and I shouldn’t have to do something to control THEIR behavior.
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Uliana988
Guest
Yeah well, it was a few years ago. I no longer go to that church. I’m Ukrainian Greco-Catholic anyway. I sometimes go to a local Roman Catholic church with my husband when I can’t make it to Divine Liturgy due to time constraints (1 hour vs 1 1/2-2 hours and friends are visiting from town). 
edited: was supposed to be “friends from out of town”.
edited: was supposed to be “friends from out of town”.
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CTBcin
Guest
Hahaha 
. I almost added to my post that she was not romantically interested in me.
. I almost added to my post that she was not romantically interested in me.
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CTBcin
Guest
Well, it’s not exactly that simple. The touching must be “harmful or offensive” to count as battery (along with being intentional and uninvited).
I’m not sure that that taking someone’s hand during the Our Father would be considered “harmful or offensive” in legal terms. (Although it’s certainly uninvited! Haha). But I do agree that I don’t want people just grabbing my hand during Mass.
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HolySpirit
Guest
It is
It isn’t harmful or offensive? Try grabbing and holding someone’s hand outside of church and you will either get a good poke in the nose or a sexual harassment claim. I’d imagine a complainant would feel much the same way in church, yet he or she would probably suffer in silence.
It offends me, because it distracts me from prayer. I also wonder if I am offending God, and I shouldn’t be thinking about that during mass.
I am sure there are creepy men and women who intentionally sit next to people to hold their hand.
It causes consternation with people who have pain or medical issues with their hands. I also don’t want to hold hands with some little kid who was picking his nose 5 minutes ago.
There are many ways to show friendship, peace and love with your fellow parishioners. You don’t need to hold hands to do it.
It isn’t harmful or offensive? Try grabbing and holding someone’s hand outside of church and you will either get a good poke in the nose or a sexual harassment claim. I’d imagine a complainant would feel much the same way in church, yet he or she would probably suffer in silence.
It offends me, because it distracts me from prayer. I also wonder if I am offending God, and I shouldn’t be thinking about that during mass.
I am sure there are creepy men and women who intentionally sit next to people to hold their hand.
It causes consternation with people who have pain or medical issues with their hands. I also don’t want to hold hands with some little kid who was picking his nose 5 minutes ago.
There are many ways to show friendship, peace and love with your fellow parishioners. You don’t need to hold hands to do it.
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Pup7
Guest
Touching someone uninvited is a battery charge. Offensive counts. Harmful is relative and subjective.
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It is if someone goes off the rails and says it is. It’s in the eye of the offended. And some of what I’ve heard here (meaning the forcible grabbing of someone’s unoffered hand) gets close.
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