Hand-Holding Explained

[PetraG]

I have no problem with someone not wanting to hold hands.

I do have a problem with someone wanting to hold hands and making a scene by grabbing the other’s hand.

I also have a problem with the other making the scene further evident, and prolonging it, by jerking away.

If there isn’t a way to decline, I’m not sure how someone who doesn’t want to hold hands has a say in it, then. As for scenes, what I don’t need is to give someone so forward about this an opportunity to debate the point in church. My answer is “no, thank you”; there is nothing to discuss. If someone did this and I just let it go, I wouldn’t say anything. I’d just make it a point not to sit anywhere near them again. Some people aren’t good candidates for training.

With eye contact, firmly declining intimate contact doesn’t have to become any big scene. I don’t think it will degenerate into arm wrestling.

Having said that: People who really want to avoid having their hands grabbed usually just keep their eyes pointed at the altar, clasp their own two hands together in prayer close to their body, and just don’t let their one hand go of the other. I don’t mean feet set and elbows out; I mean a perfectly reasonable posture of prayer. They aren’t likely to be tackled and wrestled to the ground.

It is a bit like admonishing a child; most often it does not need to be done in public. and I raised twins, so it is not like I am unaware of the scene that can be created, or handled without making a scene.

We raised twins, too! Lucky us!!

 

[otjm]

Oh my, yes! we certainly want to handle such matters in an intelligent, grown-up, Christ-like manner.

 

[Maximilian75]

you yourself conceded that

Most of our mothers tried to teach manners…

It doesn’t take a sociologist to note that not all learned the lesson.

 

[dochawk]

The shaking of another persons hand as a sign of peace originated in Roman times when most men carried a sword on their person.
As most men were right handed the extension of the right hand to a stranger was a signal that you would not use your sword on him.

Many or all salutes originate in disarming–putting the sworhand forward to shake, lifting a visor with the sword hand for recognition (now become touching the cap), driving the tip of the sword into the grand, naval ships firing their cannon before pulling alongside (hey, cannon law! )

hawk

 

[BartholomewB]

Many or all salutes originate in disarming–putting the sworhand forward to shake,

The Spanish and Latin American abrazo or hug when two men meet looks as though it may have originated as a reciprocal frisking.

 

[pnewton]

I would lay dollars to donuts that the majority of people who are strongly against holding hands, would, if they met the same person in a different setting other than church, shake hands with that individual.

Perhaps all those who say they never hold hands could comment. Do you also never shake hands when not in Church?

 

[Pup7]

I also have a problem with the other making the scene further evident, and prolonging it, by jerking away.

So because I don’t want to hold hands I should be forced to because someone forgot the basic rules of a five year old (keep your hands to yourself?)?

Absolutely not. It wouldn’t embarrass me to pull my hand away, but I bet it would embarrass the other person.

 

[Pup7]

Perhaps all those who say they never hold hands could comment. Do you also never shake hands when not in Church?

I don’t hold hands during the Our Father because I actually think it’s strange. I think it’s cultish. There, I said it. So I don’t do it.

Shaking someone’s hand is common courtesy.

 

[Mi_Rose]

Some weeks I hold hands some I don’t.
This weekend the lady next to me coughed through the whole mass and I was still feeling tired from the bug I was on prednisone for last month so no. The week before I did hold hands but used hand sanitizer before I went to Communion.
Too careful maybe but 5 URIs between December and May will do that especially to someone with asthma.

 

[PetraG]

Perhaps all those who say they never hold hands could comment. Do you also never shake hands when not in Church?

Of course people shake hands at the Sign of Peace who do not hold hands at the Our Father. One is in the rubrics and the other isn’t.

Some hold hands and some don’t. Whether at daily Mass or Sunday Mass, this is almost never a problem. No one gets worked up about it. The person who is so determined to hold someone else’s hand that they get rude about it is vanishingly rare. Some of the time, someone makes certain the person next to them knows the hand is being offered, the other person makes some little sign of “no, thanks,” and that is all there is to it.

If someone were really in the super-rude camp and was badgering someone, who would judge the victim? It would be like if someone tried to kiss you on the lips for the Sign of Peace. No one would blame the person who is having none of that. Preserving your personal boundaries with someone like that is not “making a scene” and no one says, “well, you should have just let them do it and not made a bigger deal of it.” I don’t know who really expects that.

The main thing is to not be rude in turning down someone who is making a friendly gesture in a way that isn’t aggressive, even if you are adamantly opposed to the practice of holding hands. It should be refused with recognition that the offer was kindly met, and that is also almost always how it goes.

 

[dochawk]

I don’t hold hands during the Our Father because I actually think it’s strange. I think it’s cultish. There, I said it. So I don’t do it.

I actually react to it as anti-clerical. When I first encountered, it was part of that whole packaged to de-emphasize the importance of the priest at the Mass. Mock/imitate his position with the trans petition demote him by democratizing his role from celebrant to presider, hold hands, replace the opening hymn with a “gathering song”, and so forth.

Sure, these may have had other purposes elsewhere, but when I first encountered them, they were part of his radical package, andI see them through this lens.

hawk

 

[otjm]

I would expect something more nuanced, if not more insightful from you, as you usually are.

Your comment is about “I” and “me”. About how “you are right” and comes down to “I will show them! How dare they!”

I agree they are wrong. Christ did not say “Like one another”; he said “Love one another”. I don’t like the person who forces the hand holding, and I do not suggest you should either. But I do suggest - and have heard the same comment from a number of priests, that the point where we are nearing to receiving Communion is not the place for a show of correction. Yes, you can embarrass the rude person; but honestly, is that truly Christ-like? Is their rudeness a time a public correction? Is the act of acquiescing so much a violation of your personal space and privacy that you need to make a show for the two pews of people behind you?

I get it that it is a violation of personal space and personal integrity (although much smaller than some seem to make it). I am not arguing about that. What I do say is that it is an extremely small act of charity to simply hold their hand then, and that visibly jerking away (as there is generally no way to politely disengage) simply compounds on their lack of charity.

Some of the comments come across as having a good sized chip on the shoulder and an attitude of “I will show them!” that speaks for itself, and not something I want to “say” just before Communion.

And a very simple solution is to sit somewhere else next time I go to Mass, which avoids the problem.

 

[pnewton]

I don’t hold hands during the Our Father because I actually think it’s strange. I think it’s cultish. There, I said it. So I don’t do it.

While I find the use of the word “cultish” odd for the largest single belief system the world has known, I understand the sentiment. I have my own hang ups about pledges, another Catholic thing that is common here. Rest assured though, if the Catholic Church is a cult, everything is a cult.

Of course people shake hands at the Sign of Peace who do not hold hands at the Our Father. One is in the rubrics and the other isn’t.

I guess when I asked my question, the answer was trending toward being an issue with touching others and discomfort with contact. I know there are as many reasons for holding hands and not holding hands as there are people.

 

[PetraG]

I guess when I asked my question, the answer was trending toward being an issue with touching others and discomfort with contact. I know there are as many reasons for holding hands and not holding hands as there are people.

In my experience, the people who want no touch at all usually arrange to stand so far from everyone else that touching for the Sign of Peace won’t be an issue. This could include both people who don’t like touching and people who wish there wasn’t a Sign of Peace, either. Those who are fine with the Sign of Peace but not the hand-holding during the Our Father run more toward the say-the-black-do-the-red sentiments.

 

[kill051]

I don’t hold hands during the Our Father because I actually think it’s strange. I think it’s cultish. There, I said it. So I don’t do it. Shaking someone’s hand is common courtesy.

Agree 100%. To my mind, there is zero equivalence between shaking someone’s hand, and presumptuously imitating the priest’s position during the Paternoster, while trying to force a stranger to take your hand. One is a sign of politeness; the other is rude, thoughtless and overbearing.

As a professional musician many moons ago, I had been hired to play at a Unitarian service (I know, I know, you don’t have to say it). I was getting ready ‘backstage’ before the service proper, when I was approached by a rather large lady, wearing a floral print dress and a coy smirk. ‘Do you give hugs?’ she asked in what I can only describe as a flirtatious tone. Before I could respond, to my horror she had swept me up into her arms and was squeezing the bejeebers out of me. Since that day, unsolicited violations of my sovereign person, even something as small as handholding, have infuriated me, and I do not tolerate them.

 

[Pup7]

While I find the use of the word “cultish” odd for the largest single belief system the world has known, I understand the sentiment.

LOL. Yeah, even I thought it was a strange choice, but I really couldn’t think of another way to get the point across. I don’t think that about Catholicism in general of course - I just find hand holding a bit odd.

…and presumptuously imitating the priest’s position during the Paternoster…

I offer that up every Sunday. LOL.

 

[Pup7]

Those who are fine with the Sign of Peace but not the hand-holding during the Our Father run more toward the say-the-black-do-the-red sentiments.

I’m one of those people. Not trying to pick a fight here, but I’m not sure I understand this. The sign of peace is in the rubrics…handholding during the Our Father isn’t. The handholding was added at some point by congregations; the sign of peace is part of the Mass.

 

[Pup7]

I would expect something more nuanced, if not more insightful from you, as you usually are.

Your comment is about “I” and “me”. About how “you are right” and comes down to “I will show them! How dare they!”

I agree they are wrong. Christ did not say “Like one another”; he said “Love one another”. I don’t like the person who forces the hand holding, and I do not suggest you should either. But I do suggest - and have heard the same comment from a number of priests, that the point where we are nearing to receiving Communion is not the place for a show of correction. Yes, you can embarrass the rude person; but honestly, is that truly Christ-like? Is their rudeness a time a public correction? Is the act of acquiescing so much a violation of your personal space and privacy that you need to make a show for the two pews of people behind you?

I get it that it is a violation of personal space and personal integrity (although much smaller than some seem to make it). I am not arguing about that. What I do say is that it is an extremely small act of charity to simply hold their hand then, and that visibly jerking away (as there is generally no way to politely disengage) simply compounds on their lack of charity.

Some of the comments come across as having a good sized chip on the shoulder and an attitude of “I will show them!” that speaks for itself, and not something I want to “say” just before Communion.

And a very simple solution is to sit somewhere else next time I go to Mass, which avoids the problem.

Precisely where have I said I AM RIGHT? I haven’t. I flat out don’t want strangers holding my hand during a prayer. I just don’t. Why should I be FORCED to do something I don’t want to do?

If a stranger grabbed my hand in Target, they’d hear about it. If they do it in church, I will assuredly snatch it away. Just because it’s church doesn’t give them the right to demand invasion of my personal space.

I’m not trying to teach anyone anything. I just don’t want my hand held during a prayer. No one has the right in any location to force that on anyone.

It’s a “small act of charity” to RESPECT the wishes of the person standing next to you. Why do I have to do something I don’t want to do? I don’t have a chip on my shoulder about any of it, regardless of what you believe you’re reading. I just find it incredible that people think it’s okay for others to insist on grabbing a hand in church when the same action elsewhere would be completely unacceptable.

The people getting grabby during the Our Father and who are insulted by the reluctance of others to acquiesce are making a bigger statement prior to Communion than I am by folding my hands to avoid the confrontation. Which in reality I shouldn’t need to do in the first place. I would think church is the one place that I shouldn’t have to worry about having my hand grabbed.

 

[kill051]

Once again, Pup7, you have put into words my exact feelings on the matter. Church is the last place I should feel emotionally blackmailed into violations of my person because I am allegedly being uncharitable if I don’t. It is a sanctuary where I can be with Christ and my fellow worshippers, who should be polite and respectful, not trying to force me into a physical position that isn’t even in the rubrics, for Heaven’s sake.

 

[Maximilian75]

cannon law

What’s the difference between a canonist and a terrorist?

Spoiler

You can negotiate with a terrorist