Hand-Holding Explained

[Pup7]

I just find it incredible that it’s supposed to be okay and that someone should just do something they’re uncomfortable with just because it’s occurring in a church.

 

[kill051]

I just find it incredible that it’s supposed to be okay and that someone should just do something they’re uncomfortable with just because it’s occurring in a church.

Like I said, emotional blackmail. We’re supposed to just blithely go along with whatever the person next to us wants because if we don’t we’re being uncharitable. Well, where do we draw the line? If the lady next to me wants to put her hand on my thigh, do I keep quiet so I don’t appear uncharitable, or because you’re not supposed to ‘make a scene’ in church? Sorry guys, there’s such a thing as personal space, and if you don’t want a scene then don’t violate mine, ESPECIALLY in church.

 

[angelic06]

I’ve heard it surmised that it came from the worldwide Marriage Encounter retreats, which then made its way into the parishes. Then as they say…“monkey see, monkey do.”

Not all of us are married.

I reserve this kind of touching for my future wife, and also for my own family - only if they insist.

At my own parish (formerly a Pastoral Provision parish, now of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter), holding hands is not the custom. So far, my siblings and parents, during their previous visits years ago, have respected our custom.

 

[otjm]

You might want to re-read my post to you. Nowhere did I say that anyone has a right to grab your hand. What I said is, jerking away (as that is generally what one will need to do to break the hand-hold) creates a scene for those behind you and is an inappropriate place and time to do so.

One act of uncharity does not thereby make another uncharitable act, charitable.

Why should you be forced to do so? I never said you should be forced to do so; I said that if they have been uncharitable, then the charitable thing to do is hold their hand during the Our Father, and after Mass explain to them you do not wish to hold hands, and their forceful grabbing of your hand was disrespectful.

I did not say you have to hold their hand. I said, to their act of uncharity, the charitable thing to do is acquiesce rather than make a scene of grabbing your hand away.

“Forgive us, as we forgive those who trespass against us”, if I recall correctly, is part of the prayer being said. Certainly you can choose to grab your hand away and further the scene they have created. by all means, be my guest.

I simply suggested that if they grab your hand, you in charity acquiesce, and resolve the matter after Mass.

I suspect that Christ was not overly thrilled when they whipped him within an inch of his life, leaving his back in torn shreds of flesh; and I suspect that after they clothed him and then later tore the clothes off him, thereby further aggravating the multitude of wounds, that he would much have preferred they not touch his clothes, let alone rip them off.

I seriously doubt that charitably putting up with someone else’s uncharitable act for all of a minute or two is of greater sacrifice.

I am not promoting holding hands during the Our Father. Nor am I promoting any idea that someone has any right to grab your hand at that time should you not wish to hold hands. Two wrongs still do not make a right.

 

[otjm]

You can negotiate with a terrorist.

 

[Pup7]

Why should you be forced to do so? I never said you should be forced to do so; I said that if they have been uncharitable, then the charitable thing to do is hold their hand during the Our Father, and after Mass explain to them you do not wish to hold hands, and their forceful grabbing of your hand was disrespectful.

No, because my actions don’t require explanation. We’re not kids. If I don’t want my hand held, I don’t have to - simple.

If someone grabbed my hand my inclination would be to jerk away, not allow them to hold it. Why would they do it in the first place?

I seriously doubt that charitably putting up with someone else’s uncharitable act for all of a minute or two is of greater sacrifice.

I seriously doubt if someone did this to someone in Target that you’d have the same sort of stance on it.

I suspect that Christ was not overly thrilled when they whipped him within an inch of his life, leaving his back in torn shreds of flesh; and I suspect that after they clothed him and then later tore the clothes off him, thereby further aggravating the multitude of wounds, that he would much have preferred they not touch his clothes, let alone rip them off.

Not even remotely the same.

“Forgive us, as we forgive those who trespass against us”, if I recall correctly, is part of the prayer being said. Certainly you can choose to grab your hand away and further the scene they have created. by all means, be my guest.

Pulling my hand away in no way creates a scene. Their unsolicited grabbing, however, would.

Why do you think this is okay just because it’s in church?

It might surprise you to hear that if a hand is offered, I’ll most likely take it. But as my husband and my parents (and my friends) don’t and didn’t grab my hand unless I was about to hurt myself or do wrong as a child, I don’t expect that behavior from someone I don’t even know.

 

[otjm]

You misstate the comments. No one here has said you are uncharitable if you don’t hold hands.

 

[Reverent_Howler]

There is also the issue of Presumption–The nothing bad can happen to you under a church roof mindset. I’ve seen someone go up to Communion with a tobacco tin printing on a back pocket. Hope he didn’t receive under both species. No amount of “vigorous-rub-and-turn” will abate that.

But getting back on topic–Folks also make use of the restrooms during Mass. Hopefully they’ve washed their hands thoroughly before returning. There’s been an outbreak of Hepatitis A here in my state.

 

[kill051]

Folks also make use of the restrooms during Mass. Hopefully they’ve washed their hands thoroughly before returning. There’s been an outbreak of Hepatitis A here in my state.

I can practically guarantee they haven’t. Considering that the recommendation of health professionals is that one scrub one’s hands, with soap under a running tap, for a minimum of twenty to thirty seconds, and then recalling that I have seen other men’s room patrons run their hands under the tap for two to three seconds, OR NOT AT ALL, I can virtually guarantee they haven’t. On a related issue, when I have read on CAF that some people avoid the Precious Blood when they have a cold or the flu, often other (no doubt well-meaning) members have urged them to receive, under the impression that God would not allow his faithful to be sickened by Communion, and so would destroy the virus before it infected anyone else!

 

[babochka]

The orans is essentially the priest offering up prayers on behalf of the people. Why would the people mimic that?

In the Tridentine Mass, the priest prays the “Our Father” on his own, without the congregation. In that situation, he is indeed offering up prayers on behalf of the people and a gesture indicating that would be appropriate.

In the current Mass, the priest is not offering up prayers on behalf of the people when the “Our Father” is prayed. The priest and the people are praying the same prayer, doing the same thing, at the same time.

If this posture is indeed reserved for times in which the priest is offering prayer on behalf of the people, perhaps it is the priest’s posture that needs to be corrected in the rubrics of the Mass? Because as it is, I can see why it would send a confusing message to the faithful.

 

[somecanadian]

I think the confusion comes in the laity thinking they’re supposed to mimic the priest. Obviously we aren’t supposed to but for some reason people think we are.

 

[Reuben_J]

GIRM is a good thing but Catholics come in many forms including those who are their own teachers.

 

[kill051]

GIRM is a good thing but Catholics come in many forms including those who are their own teachers.

All well and good, as long as being ‘their own teachers’ doesn’t lead them into error and heresy, as it did the Protestants.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I think some of that is a pride thing. Man people do not like the idea that the priest is doing something they aren’t.

 

[hereagain]

Good heavens! What a thread! What a thing in our Church!

Somebody posted in this big pile of comments the Vatican is aware and although not in the rubrics, hasn’t condemned it either. I think this sums it up well.

Maybe I’m mistaken, but I seem to have heard in various places it began in the Philippines and just became a tradition… or habit? Reminds me of the line in Fiddler On The Roof where the guy says **“And, where did this tradition get started? I’ll tell you… I don’t know!”**

Personally-I don’t like it. Not at all, never have, probably never will. Here’s why: when I was growing up in the Church with Daily Mass, I would be uncomfortable with just the handshake because I always had very sweaty palms as a kid. I was probably almost 30 when I finally got over that. I’m also a little germ conscious, and if I take communion in the hand (which I often do having an abnormally short tongue being tongue tied), I want them as clean as possible. No offense my fellow pew warmer, but I don’t know where your hand has been right before (and maybe during) Mass!

What really grosses me out is when couples kiss. Especially the elderly, which seems to always be the case around here. Just once, I’d like to be a Wise Guy and after they’re done smooching, shake the guy’s hand then pretend to plant a kiss on his wife! (this is just humor, so don’t anybody get offended!) Of course, I wouldn’t actually kiss anybody but when that happens I think how funny that would be to act like ‘well, you kissed her, so I can too’!!

However, this is all personal preference, although not in the official rubrics. I went through a period where I began judging those who did this sort of thing and then realized they are ignorant of official Church teaching. But, I’ve mellowed… I don’t really care what everybody else does. If that’s what they want to do, go ahead. But from me, 90% of the time, you’ll get a polite smile, nod and a “peace be with you” and I’ve never held hands during the OF no matter how many others were.

I read recently that our Catholic Church is diverse, and this is probably a good example.

 

[kill051]

I think some of that is a pride thing. Man people do not like the idea that the priest is doing something they aren’t.

If there are some who honestly think this way, they had better educate themselves on the Faith. For Heaven’s sake, the priest has the power of transubstantiation! Do the laity really imagine they themselves should have the ability to turn bread and wine into the Body and Blood, or to forgive sin? That is presumption on an unheard-of order. I am appalled to hear that people are envious of the priest.

 

[pnewton]

What really grosses me out is when couples kiss.

That one is actually in scripture, still, I know what you mean. However, consider this. If my wife wants to plant a kiss on my check during the sign of peace, grabbing her hand and shaking it would ensure a fairly long period without peace. Somethings are not worth the fight.

 

[dochawk]

Yes.

When wife expects kiss, “No” is always the wrong response . . .

hawk

p.s. To bad you can’t still use that old avatar . . . I laughed so many times. . .

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I guess I was meaning they feel they should be able to assume the same postures as the priest.

 

[kill051]

I guess I was meaning they feel they should be able to assume the same postures as the priest.

Hmmm…even so. Seems like more of a Protestant thing to me. But I know where you’re coming from.