Hand of God

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I’ll watch it online tomorrow night…missed it live on TV this evening.
 
Nauseating. I was hesitant to watch it but I did and now I’m sick. I didn’t think my faith was that weak but it is. There’s nothing you can really say to this.
Sorry.
:confused:
 
I know there are many here who won’t like one of the two things I have to say. Time and again throughout all these reports of the abuse scandal over the years I’ve concluded that something rotten stemmed from Catholic seminaries specifically for a span of about 40 – 50 years. The Vatican is supposedly addressing this problem via ‘the seminary reviews’

The thing that will really rustle some feathers is that it is my very strong feeling that much of the evil of the abuse scandal appears to stem also from the IRISH Catholic culture. Being Italian/Sicilian/America and growing up in Catholic community highly saturated with Irish Catholics, I can say that I can see similarities and associations between the sex scandals and the Irish Catholic culture. I can see dark shadows that overlap each other time and again. Sure I know that there are other races and nationalities involved in the abuse but not nearly to the extent as Irish Catholics……I feel that these few others involved are anomalies…….

The people that need to fess up the most are Irish Catholics……lay people and clergy….something smelly and rotten was brewing in their culture for a long time.

I say…….look at the bad seminaries **and **the Irish Catholic culture for the cause of most of the abuse. For some reason Irish Catholics have some serious hang-ups with sexuality….yesterday and today. All you have to do is read about the Magdalene Laundries to see what I mean.

Ok…first deny that what I say is true and then shoot me…
 
contemplative said:
I know there are many here who won’t like one of the two things I have to say. Time and again throughout all these reports of the abuse scandal over the years I’ve concluded that something rotten stemmed from Catholic seminaries specifically for a span of about 40 – 50 years. The Vatican is supposedly addressing this problem via ‘the seminary reviews’

The thing that will really rustle some feathers is that it is my very strong feeling that much of the evil of the abuse scandal appears to stem also from the IRISH Catholic culture. Being Italian/Sicilian/America and growing up in Catholic community highly saturated with Irish Catholics, I can say that I can see similarities and associations between the sex scandals and the Irish Catholic culture. I can see dark shadows that overlap each other time and again. Sure I know that there are other races and nationalities involved in the abuse but not nearly to the extent as Irish Catholics……I feel that these few others involved are anomalies…….

The people that need to fess up the most are Irish Catholics……lay people and clergy….something smelly and rotten was brewing in their culture for a long time.

I say…….look at the bad seminaries **and **the Irish Catholic culture for the cause of most of the abuse. For some reason Irish Catholics have some serious hang-ups with sexuality….yesterday and today. All you have to do is read about the Magdalene Laundries to see what I mean.

Ok…first deny that what I say is true and then shoot me…
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Did you watch the program?
How did you feel after it? I felt these people were betrayed(parents, siblings, community…) and couldn’t believe the arrogance towards them by the clergy over those many years.
I understand they are men and are flawed/weak like us all, but to deny and cover (I know depsite one side, the bishop was asked for his opinion) it up. And over 40 years never once came forward to rectify the problem or make it known. Over 4,000 cases and not one from what I know was voluntarily put forth.
I walked away thinking they are more interested in their climb up the hierarchy than the children or flock.
Correct me where I’m wrong because I’m struggling with this. I’m educating my kids as Catholic and I’ve recently engaged myself in some enrichment but now am begining to doubt my faith or what I’ve believed the Church to represent and may contemplate leaving.
Thanks.
 
denfather said:
Did you watch the program?
How did you feel after it?
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Yes I watched all 10 parts. The producer did and interesting job in presenting his story.

I’m sorry for you if this is the first time you’ve been exposed to the sexual scandal in the Church. I knew that this sort of thing would happen…many will hear the bad news for years to come with out the benefit of people like me and others to ask questions of.

Yes, it all hit me like a ton of bricks when I first started reading the many stories as they appeared…yes, I hurt…yes I had my doubts but ultimately I have not lost faith in the Catholic Church. I too am a parent and I know now that regardless of the sex scandal…teaching children the Faith is tough at any rate.

So given a choice…sex scandal or not…I am remaining as devout a Catholic as I can be because it is the precepts of the Catholic Church that I believe…and none other.

Please read one of the ways the Church is addressing the sex scandal.

Also the US bishops recently approved a large budget to study the scandal.
 
One very important thing to remember, is that when one’s faith wavers, the Church, as instituted by Jesus Christ, has never changed. Yes, there are bad men everywhere. Inside and outside the Church. They are sinners, just as we all are. But we must remember that the Holy Catholic Church will weather this storm, the gates of hell will not prevail against it, and in the end, she will still remain the bride of Christ awaiting His return.

If you are angry, be angry with sinful men. Don’t leave the Church because of something someone else has done or not done. Stay with her and help to make and keep her strong.

~Liza
 
Editor’s Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts;
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The live discussion is so very disappointing…I’ve been reading it for 30+ minutes now and so far the moderators haven’t let the words ‘homosexual culture’ into the discussion.
…no surprise on the Washington Post
 
lizaanne said:
They are sinners, just as we all are. But we must remember that the Holy Catholic Church will weather this storm, the gates of hell will not prevail against it,

~Liza
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Yes I agree, the Roman Catholic Church will “weather” the storm because they will pay hush money out to the families that are affected. Plus the Vatican has the money for top notch attorneys.

Lee44
 
Lee44 said:
Yes I agree, the Roman Catholic Church will “weather” the storm because they will pay hush money out to the families that are affected. Plus the Vatican has the money for top notch attorneys.

Lee44
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And I find that attitude and comment completely offensive and disgusting.

~Liza
 
If the Bishop in this film has lied and you live in the diocese,How do you believe him about any thing ,And dont forget he took the bishopship as a liar not an honest man
 
Lee44 said:
Yes I agree, the Roman Catholic Church will “weather” the storm because they will pay hush money out to the families that are affected. Plus the Vatican has the money for top notch attorneys.

Lee44
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You’re a fool…The Church will weather it because it always HAS and always WILL. Look at history, ‘man’ has tried to bring it down time and time again. The PBS doc was very sad, and cutting, but to leave? Think about it, at what point in past history, under which persecution, or corruption or scandal would you have left, pick one. Over the centuries, bad people worked their way into the Church and spread evil by attacking everything from the Creed to innocent children, but wouldn’t leaving be exactly the result the ‘evil one’ wants? The show was hard to watch and very disturbing for sure. It was evident that his pain has turned to hatred for the whole Church, from top to bottom, not only the truly guilty but the innocent. His portrayal was so slanderous towards even the sacraments as TOOLS to CONTROL people, to USE them for power and money. Do we really believe all that? His attack was complete, the whole Church guilty of a 2000 year ruse. His pain is real, but his view of the whole Church now has been crippled by a monster in a collar. Some scenes, like when the Bishop engaged them outside the Chancellery to stop the filming, leaving the Bishop to say “it’s all in your mind” seemed highly edited ala Michael Moore. What was the Bishop reacting too? Who knows…it didn’t seem like it was the same line of conversation and they fit it in to make him look worse than he already did. He should have blessed them and walked away. But they engaged him in some fashion, and I’m sure we’ll never know. But either way, he should have kept his mouth closed. Bottom line is to stay strong and read the Saints and Fathers and see what they went through to keep the faith in their hearts. The Church is more than just sinful men weaving a web of deceit. It is 2000 years of the truth of Jesus Christ, who by his death and resurrection, opened the gates of Heaven to us all.
 
artist3189 said:
The show was hard to watch and very disturbing for sure. It was evident that his pain has turned to hatred for the whole Church, from top to bottom, not only the truly guilty but the innocent.
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…including Joe & Paul’s parents…in the end these two sons/men dragged their own elderly parents in the dirt.

The Washington Post live discussion today with Joe & Paul was a waste of time. It seems that the moderators at Washington Post were doing a great job to slant the discussion.

Oh well Joe & Paul, what is the next stop from here? Maybe the next old and dug up story similar to yours? Is there something greater than Frontline and Washington Post ready to publish?
 
contemplative It was not Joe and Paul who draged there parents into the dirt ,but the Priest who abused , Bishop and the man who promoted him
 
michaelmac said:
contemplative It was not Joe and Paul who draged there parents into the dirt ,but the Priest who abused , Bishop and the man who promoted him
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multiplying double negatives does make a positive but two wrongs together do not make a right
 
I believe in the Church and its teaching authority but find myself deeply troubled by what I saw on this program. I realize our bishops and priests are just as human as we are. However, given the gravity and magnitude of the suffering caused to the abused and their families, why can’t a few of these men find the humility to beg for forgiveness? I am speaking in particular of those who tried to cover up these incidents by keeping quiet and continually transferring these pedophiles to other parishes. Doesn’t Christ ask us to stretch out our arms and suffer as he did? Certianly such an apology would have the inherent risk of being misunderstood, misinterpreted and could lead to further investigations, charges, etc. but I believe we are called to risk all of that when we have harmed another. Why can’t we push all the lawyers aside and just be honest and ask God and those who have been abused for forgiveness. We might get sued, we might lose all kinds of material assets but we would serve as a witness to the world.
 
contemplative said:
Yes I watched all 10 parts. The producer did and interesting job in presenting his story.

I’m sorry for you if this is the first time you’ve been exposed to the sexual scandal in the Church. I knew that this sort of thing would happen…many will hear the bad news for years to come with out the benefit of people like me and others to ask questions of.

Yes, it all hit me like a ton of bricks when I first started reading the many stories as they appeared…yes, I hurt…yes I had my doubts but ultimately I have not lost faith in the Catholic Church. I too am a parent and I know now that regardless of the sex scandal…teaching children the Faith is tough at any rate.

So given a choice…sex scandal or not…I am remaining as devout a Catholic as I can be because it is the precepts of the Catholic Church that I believe…and none other.

Please read one of the ways the Church is addressing the sex scandal.

Also the US bishops recently approved a large budget to study the scandal.
Click to expand...
I put myself in their shoes because I have children. And to see that those responsible are still within the hierarchy continues the arrogance or says “despite what we helped to cover up, we’re still here”. How can those above them allow it to continue? I’d still be afraid if I were in those dioceses they oversee, for my children’s sake. That’s what’s giving me such uncertainty.

And yes I have faith not in the institutional aspects or politics but the tradition.

:mad:
 
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