Hand of God

[contemplative]

Denfather,
I think realistically (these days) we are talking about only a very small number of questionable clergy. Remember that the whole world has seen the sins/crimes of these priests and bishops. Keep in mind that more stories like Joe’s and Paul’s will surface again and again. Sometimes the stories will be old like the Cultrera’s and sometimes they will be new but they will surface again and again because we are human and we sin.

With this knowledge and all else that we know now I’d say we should keep vigilant in our duty to be good parents and fellow Catholics.
….Without further ado lets continue on with the hope of knowing and pleasing God more and more everyday. The Catholic Church is the richest place for you and the hearts of your loved ones. May God’s peace be in you heart and home and may your love for God reflect back on your children.

 

[Lee44]

Denfather,
I think realistically (these days) we are talking about only a very small number of questionable clergy. Remember that the whole world has seen the sins/crimes of these priests and bishops. Keep in mind that more stories like Joe’s and Paul’s will surface again and again. Sometimes the stories will be old like the Cultrera’s and sometimes they will be new but they will surface again and again because we are human and we sin.

With this knowledge and all else that we know now I’d say we should keep vigilant in our duty to be good parents and fellow Catholics.
….Without further ado lets continue on with the hope of knowing and pleasing God more and more everyday. The Catholic Church is the richest place for you and the hearts of your loved ones. May God’s peace be in you heart and home and may your love for God reflect back on your children.

Making excuses for child molesting Priests??? Yes we all do sin but give me a break. We are talking about Child Molesters, heck even hardcore prisoners have rules about that. You get a child molester in prison and their lifespan is short. Even hardcore prisoners have a code they live by.

Lee44

 

[michaelmac]

Denfather,
I think realistically (these days) we are talking about only a very small number of questionable clergy. Remember that the whole world has seen the sins/crimes of these priests and bishops. Keep in mind that more stories like Joe’s and Paul’s will surface again and again. Sometimes the stories will be old like the Cultrera’s and sometimes they will be new but they will surface again and again because we are human and we sin.

With this knowledge and all else that we know now I’d say we should keep vigilant in our duty to be good parents and fellow Catholics.
….Without further ado lets continue on with the hope of knowing and pleasing God more and more everyday. The Catholic Church is the richest place for you and the hearts of your loved ones. May God’s peace be in you heart and home and may your love for God reflect back on your children.

You might be only talking about a small number of priests, But because of those who failed in following Christs teaching, You have a much bigger problem, If you remember Christs teaching on forgiveness , He talk about a boss forgiveing a servent ,not the other way round as the church teaches

 

[lak611]

I know there are many here who won’t like one of the two things I have to say. Time and again throughout all these reports of the abuse scandal over the years I’ve concluded that something rotten stemmed from Catholic seminaries specifically for a span of about 40 – 50 years. The Vatican is supposedly addressing this problem via ‘the seminary reviews’

The thing that will really rustle some feathers is that it is my very strong feeling that much of the evil of the abuse scandal appears to stem also from the IRISH Catholic culture. Being Italian/Sicilian/America and growing up in Catholic community highly saturated with Irish Catholics, I can say that I can see similarities and associations between the sex scandals and the Irish Catholic culture. I can see dark shadows that overlap each other time and again. Sure I know that there are other races and nationalities involved in the abuse but not nearly to the extent as Irish Catholics……I feel that these few others involved are anomalies…….

The people that need to fess up the most are Irish Catholics……lay people and clergy….something smelly and rotten was brewing in their culture for a long time.

I say…….look at the bad seminaries **and **the Irish Catholic culture for the cause of most of the abuse. For some reason Irish Catholics have some serious hang-ups with sexuality….yesterday and today. All you have to do is read about the Magdalene Laundries to see what I mean.

Ok…first deny that what I say is true and then shoot me…

I think it is wrong to blame any nationality for the abuse. The program was about abuse in the Archdiocese of Boston, which has a much larger Irish population than many other cities, so it stands to reason that more abusers were Irish. In other parts of the United States where there are fewer Irish and more of other nationalities, the abusers are not predominantly Irish. Blaming the Irish is just unfair and could be considered prejudiced.

 

[artist3189]

Making excuses for child molesting Priests??? Yes we all do sin but give me a break. We are talking about Child Molesters, heck even hardcore prisoners have rules about that. You get a child molester in prison and their lifespan is short. Even hardcore prisoners have a code they live by.

Lee44

I don’t think anyone is making excuses for pedophile priests…they are monsters. And the Church was negligent for a long period of time, especially during the 60’s in falling down on it’s own discernment process when allowing men into the seminary. So much had changed then, psychological profiles no longer were used the same way as in the past, the mental or philosophical and even spiritual leanings of the applicants were not as closely scrutinized as before. There was something very sinister in all that, diabolical even, and in my humble opinion, that planted the seeds for this all out attack on the Church from the inside. These men, all of them from top to bottom should be exposed and purged. So much has been changing now, thank God. I am a CCD and RCIA instructor, and everyone, including clergy is under intense scrutiny,and with new mandatory programs like VIRTUS, which deal with conduct around children, looking for signs of child abuse, dealing with it, protecting children under Diocesan care, this and other programs, as well as many many seminars etc, all has come about in the last few years and I am sure will continue. The Church created its own nightmare, tried in vain for years to figure out how to deal with it under cover, knowing full well the homosexual culture that had grown up, knowing full well the pedophile culture that was now prowling about the parishes, and although these were a minority, (and that is the fact whether angry people will acknowledge this) how many scandals does it take to destroy the faith of a whole Church community? Not many. These men were like small time bombs going off one after another. But they will not bring the Church down, the Church must bring them down for the good of us all.

 

[Lee44]

What about the Bishops and specifically Cardinal Law who knew about these abuses but did nothing about them?

 

[Eireann]

I grew up just 40 yards away from this monster, thankfully I was not Catholic, but he did molest 2 of my best friends, that is what I find highly offensive and disgusting.

Just because your not Catholic doesn’t mean it can’t happen, as long as sin is in the world we will have a problem with it.

And there are what you call monsters in every walk of life, I’ll bet their great-grandmother hailed from Ireland.

Seriously though, sexual abuse is so sickening no matter where it comes from, God help the victims, I nearly fell foul to a pervert myself, but managed to get away, and went back to warn my little brother, and took him home, NO it wasn’t a priest, a creep is a creep no matter what guise they put on.

 

[artist3189]

What about the Bishops and specifically Cardinal Law who knew about these abuses but did nothing about them?

You find out what their degree of guilt was and punish them for it, no one can be exempt, period. Keep in mind that the Church has almost 50,000 priests in the US. No Protestant denomination even comes close to having that number of clergy under one roof. If you think that pedophiles don’t operate in other denominations, think again. The large organization of the Catholic Church just made it work better for them, allowing them to network, and move about. It’s a very good structure when the integrity of the clergy is strong, very bad structure when its not. And the laity will never allow it to be that way again.

 

[Lee44]

It still sounds like people are making excuses. We are not talking about janitors or other strangers we are talking about Priests. Men of God. And the massive coverup by the Bishop and others that let this horrible thing continue. It is very sad to here people still in denial about the breadth and scope of this scandal. And to say that it will never happen again? That reminds me of a saying that “Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it” I pray for the victims and their families, and I remember my 2 friends who had their childhood stolen from them by a “man” that their family trusted.

Lee44

 

[artist3189]

It still sounds like people are making excuses. We are not talking about janitors or other strangers we are talking about Priests. Men of God. And the massive coverup by the Bishop and others that let this horrible thing continue. It is very sad to here people still in denial about the breadth and scope of this scandal. And to say that it will never happen again? That reminds me of a saying that “Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it” I pray for the victims and their families, and I remember my 2 friends who had their childhood stolen from them by a “man” that their family trusted.

Lee44

Who exactly, is making excuses, or in denial? I’m not sure what your referring to. This is something that is constantly under discussion now, either by the media or the Church itself. What do you think you can definitively learn about who’s in ‘denial’ from a few ‘posts’ on a web site. Maybe some of the culprits are still trying to duck it, but that cat is way out of the bag and no one that I’ve ever heard or read is in DENIAL. If you where a active Catholic, you’d know this, and it seems you’re only source of what’s GOING ON, who’s in denial, or who you think is making excuses, comes from media reports or documentaries. They can make it look like nothing is changing, things are status quo and everyone is pretending nothing happened, but that’s not the case. It is impossible to say that somewhere, something won’t happen again, ever, that’s not realistic, but the old system is falling away, the money won’t be there, the parishioners won’t be there, nor the old legal system to hide behind, and because of that, the ‘scale’ of this is, hopefully won’t ever be repeated. But no one is in denial, nor should we be. You make it sound like no ones cares about the victims, like your friends. Our pastor broke down and cried when he addressed the parish about the scandal 5 years ago, uncontrollable, just embarrassed and feeling ashamed for the whole affair. He didn’t pull any punches either, in vetting his anger at some of the men in the center of the controversy. You aren’t the only person who has someone that has been touched by this. If you think you’re angry, how do you think you’d feel if it was your church involved. But, these men don’t have the power to destroy the Church regardless of what’s happened. They will be swept aside.

 

[michaelmac]

Hi Lee, I remember a Bishop going public and saying any victim of abuse can come and see me, so one of my friends wrote to him asking for a meeting ,It took nime months for a reply ,But it was not from the Bishop but his lawyer ,

 

[artist3189]

Hi Lee, I remember a Bishop going public and saying any victim of abuse can come and see me, so one of my friends wrote to him asking for a meeting ,It took nime months for a reply ,But it was not from the Bishop but his lawyer ,

Was this in England? I’m curious, and who was the slimy Bishop?

 

[michaelmac]

Was this in England? I’m curious, and who was the slimy Bishop?

No the bishop was not from England but Ireland ,And he took over the Diocese of Ferns ,He was put into the Diocese to sort it out because of the scandal there

 

[contemplative]

Blaming the Irish is just unfair and could be considered prejudiced.

I certainly do not want to be perceived as prejudice against Irish people. I dearly love many Irish Catholics.

Please consider that the USA is a very new country. It is the Irish Catholic immigrants that have had the greatest influence in spreading Catholicism in this country. With that in mind it is no surprise there have been a very high number of Irish Catholic priests and bishops compared to other nationalities. What I am saying is that I very strongly believe that Irish Catholics of yester-years and today carry with them an ugly baggage that helped precipitate the sex-scandal in the Catholic Church. Just imagine if the USA was just starting out now and another national influence helped spread Catholicism today……say African Catholics……or say Chinese Catholics. They might carry a boogeyman of a different sort with them. It just happened that it was the Irish Catholics that came and did the most propagating of the Faith first……
I strongly feel based on my own life experience and all that I’ve read about the sex-scandal in the Church that the whole problem stemmed mostly from a flaw in Irish culture. All you have to do is look and see that most of the problematic bishops & priests have Irish names. Sure you will see problematic Italian, Polish, German, Etc. priests but the majority of the priest and bishop names on the naughty list of the recent sex-scandal are Irish. My posts here aren’t about bashing good Irish people…they are about defending the Church.

 

[Michaeljc4]

I strongly feel based on my own life experience and all that I’ve read about the sex-scandal in the Church that the whole problem stemmed mostly from a flaw in Irish culture.

That’s interesting, Contemplative. Tell me, what was the nationality of the officials in the Vatican who rewarded Cardinal Law for his fine sheparding in Boston? Or who promoted the bishop in the film to his post in the Archdiocese of Manchester? Were they Irish? Evil knows no nationality, my friend, and what the bishops, and the Vatican, have done to cover up, excuse, and reward these weak, sinful men is evil, have no doubt.

 

[michaelmac]

That’s interesting, Contemplative. Tell me, what was the nationality of the officials in the Vatican who rewarded Cardinal Law for his fine sheparding in Boston? Or who promoted the bishop in the film to his post in the Archdiocese of Manchester? Were they Irish? Evil knows no nationality, my friend, and what the bishops, and the Vatican, have done to cover up, excuse, and reward these weak, sinful men is evil, have no doubt.

Thank goodness some one has the guts to say the truth ,Remenber God will not harm you for telling the truth ,but members of the one true faith will ,But if they believe in the God of love ,They will back you outrage ,Yours Michael McManus

 

[deanarrca]

Hi, JMHO I have read most but not all the posts in this topic. I went to the PBS site and looked at the whole documentary online. I was worried that I would be discouraged but I was not. I had a sense of peace knowing that God was dealing with his Church. Sin was being brought into the light and it is being dealt with. God disciplines the individual and the Church. As a parent I can’t imagine that happenning as it did to that young man in the 60’s Priests (along with boyscout leaders, teachers and on and on ) are under close scrutiny today. What parent in todays world would let their child go with a single individual anywhere and be that trusting. It would raise quick suspicion today. I can’t imagine parents or the community today letting Priests get that friendly with young people in unsupervised situations. It is not prudent for any man by himself to be with a child, not his own. My brother-in-law gave a ride home to a child once from a youth group, and I was thinking how stupid! That is not a safe thing to be doing. I was thinking of course about liabilty on my brother-in-laws part. You don’t want to put yourself in a situation that others might think compromising. As a parent I know where my children are at all times. In cubscouts there is always two deep leadership and my husband and I are actively involved to keep an eye on things. Our kids know what appropriate and inaproprriate touching is and we have made it quite clear that they need to tell, even if it is a relative or any trusted individual. Especially if someone tells them they can’t tell your parents. That is when they need to tell. It was arrogant thinking on the parents, and church community, and the whole community at large in the 60’s, in believing it couldn’t happen especially in the churches and the clergy. I was shocked to hear the parents say he was with the Priest we thought everything was cool. That was how they were raised in a trusting society wher that kind of thing would be unimaginable. I don’t blame the parents, that was how it was back then. The Priest had parties and gained the kids confidence and took them on trips by himself without another adult. I can’t imagine a Priest trying that today- it would raise immediately too many flags and I can’t imagine any parent today going for it. I am so sorry for that young boy, now adult, but I do believe in the justice of God. God will handle it. The Priest has his sins on his head and if many souls were led astray he has all that sin too. I think the Church will be stronger because of it. I know that God is in control. There is all kinds of abuse in Protestant denominations but it doesn’t always make the news if it is a small non-denominational church. They just don’t have the clout that the Catholic Church church does. The bigger you are, the harder you fall. I don’t know why, but I came away from watching the documentary encouraged that God is in Control. I was a little dissapointed at the Bishop that covered things up and is now in charge of a church in Rome. But I don’t know all the circumstances there, and will still trust that God is in control.
I’m Deana and I come from a varied protestant backgound, and feel I have been called to the Catholic Church and I am currently in RCIA.

 

[michaelmac]

Deana were was your outraged, At the unChristian attitude by the two bishops in the film ,And were would you stand if one of your friends, Had been insulted by the Pope publicly , Without even knowing about a case of abuse and slavery ,

 

[gam197]

originally posted by Lee44
What about the Bishops and specifically Cardinal Law who knew about these abuses but did nothing about them?

It is important to remember that Cardinal Law did not come to Boston until 1984. He was first bishop then cardinal in 1985. Most of the sexual abuse cases had taken place in the 1960’s and 1970’s.

One of the first cases came out in 1990 with Father James Porter (priest in the early 1960’s)who was only a priest from 1960 to 1974 and yet he molested over 125 students and as many as 200. Molesters with power can do alot of damage in a very short time. The sad thing is that parents had gone to the elementary school (up to 8th grade)principal and complained yet the church did not know the full story as only a few parents came forth and the church thought they could rehabilitate.They sent Father Porter for rehabilitation in 1965.-- Porter married for the second time to a former nun in May 2004 and died in Feb. 2005.

This was at a time when no one talk about molesters in general. Even though there were rumors of homosexual priests, no one talked about it.The church did try to cover it up. Injuring children is a terrible way to learn the lesson that sex offenders cannot be rehabilitated

I strongly feel based on my own life experience and all that I’ve read about the sex-scandal in the Church that the whole problem stemmed mostly from a flaw in Irish culture.

Although many of the priests indicted were Irish as there are more Irish priests in general, many of the accused were Portugese, Italian and French. I just wonder how long homosexual priests have used the church as a hiding place and been molesting children.