Hand of God

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Avor

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  • Why are you in the army, why do you feel so obligated?
  • It’s my my devine purpose.
  • What? the hand of god forced you to join the army?!
  • No, there is no hand of god! When a bomb blast tears through a crowd of innocent people, it is not the hand of god that moves to protect them, it’s mine.
 
It’s funny, don’t you get it? :confused:

I live to fight, but why is ther fighting? Innocent people being hurt? Why doenst god do something?

Why is it in my hands? I cannot stop myself, I must defend the innocent. I do this freely, but why is it demanded so? How can somebody be forced to sacrifice so much of his soul. War ****s you up, in the head. And if by chance it doenst, then what? I die a killer. I can ask forgiveness, but I know I would not feel sorry for killing evil men, so asking would be dishonest and mean nothing. So that would mean I would end up in hell for saving others? What kind of god would force that upon a soul?

Or is there in fact no god?

Now do you get it:D
 
Dear Avor,
If I understand you, you are worried that being a soldier is the same as murder.
This is not so. It is allowed to fight in a just war, in self defence and the defence of civilians, the innocent, and one’s country.
If the war is not just, but you are following your conscience in following orders, the responsibility is not yours but that of the people who sent you.
God bless.
 
What I mean is this.

That to kill, even if lawful and justified, still require prays of forgivenss. Becuase you are suppose regret the fact you have removed a life from the world, regret taht you have commited an act of vilonce, and that you failed to prevent the situation.

So if you kill a man in defence, you can still pray and be ok.

But I hate god becuase I have to do his job, protect the good and innocnet. I have no choice in this, I can only react one way to the cries of the innocent, and this done at great personal sacrifice, spirutualy and real.

But the real twist and why Im ****ed, I cannot moraly ask forgiveness from a being that I reject for something I would not regret or feel sorry for, to do so would be dishonest to myself and mean nothing in the house of god.

So the cost of sacrifice I must be ready to make, becuase I’m stuck with god’s job, is steped up a level of existance. So not only endure the damage defending others, but also be dammed to hell.

Is this realy how things are? This my fate?

And now this is where I scare myself, I wiegh things out, a lifetime of war, battle, pain and death, then an afterlife, eternity of absolute hell…all that for even just even one innocent? I know I would do it.

To think, to live, to willing do that, clearly is not normal. What’s going on then? Is there something that wrong with me? It’s not even human to think like that.

So now I even feel more lost, because what does that even make me?

Sorry, I’m just typing as I think.
 
Dear Avor,
You are not thinking along Catholic lines.
I strongly suggest you talk with a priest. He should be able to help you sort out your feelings.
God does not expect you to do His job. He does it just fine. He does have tasks for us to do, and a priest can help you discern what yours might be.
God is on your side. He’s not putting an impossible burden on you, you just need to get to know Him a little better.
God bless.
 
Avor,

You seem to be struggling with a lot! I’m sorry.

Don’t be afraid that you’ll go to hell for saving someone! Hell is for people who’s actions were selfish. If you would face hell to save someone else, you aren’t selfish and you love others and that’s not the kind of person who goes to hell. That’s the kind of person who we say is Christ-like.

The only thing I can see that is wrong with you from your post is that you don’t understand God, but most people don’t.

Don’t give up that love and don’t give up hope! You have faced horrors most of us never see in our worst nightmares. You have a lot you need to work through. Find someone to talk to, and not just on a message board, though I’m happy to talk to you any time you need. Find a professional who can help you work through your confused feelings and fears. Talk to a therapist, talk to a priest, talk to someone who can really help you.

I don’t know if it means anything to you, but I will be praying for you. Know you’re loved and appreciated!

❤️ Maria
 
You have faced horrors most of us never see in our worst nightmares.
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Don’t get confused, I havent done or faced anything yet. I’m getting ready, prepairing for what will come.

Please don’t confuse me with those who have accauly done what I say I’m going to do.
God does not expect you to do His job. He does it just fine.
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Look at Rwanda, I would very much disagree.

I recomend you educate yourself about the scale of evil that happened there, pregnent women left for death after having their unborn child hacked from her with machettes, racist hate so strong that priest killed fellow priest, members of the church, murdering each other, whole families.

And what did god do, for his most precous, most innocent and most devote fallowers? A handfull of peacekeepers.

An entire village of people held up in hills, clinging onto dear life, fighting tooth and nail for very survival, praying for some kind of deliverence. Today, all that remains of these people, a a modest monument telling their story of courage, and resistance. Where was their, your god then?

When it comes to directly protecting people, god doenst answer prayers. The only thing that happens when people pray, is that other people, out of their own goodness, come to their aid.

Again, im forced to my original conclusion.

There is no god.

If there is a god, he’s a bastard, I’m suck with his job. Coming to prayers of the innocent, to protect them agiasnt those who bring them death and pain. So does that just make a devine tool, I am god’s answer to somebody’s prayer? So god would create people to answer certain prayers of others, but in answering, they are punished and dammed?

Well I suppose that just puts me and my very original conclusions.
  • You may send me to hell, and I will fight even there. (Slay demons on home turf)
  • Where do rightous people who do not have faith in god go? Purgatory/limbo. “Through the mud and blood to the green fields beyond” and enternity of peace on a endless plain.
 
It all comes down to choices.

You can choose to do good and you can choose to do evil. As you’ve noticed, those who choose the latter wreak a terrible toll on the world, but it’s not the fault of God that people made those choices.

You have the choice to help or turn your back, but remember that justice plays no part in this world. If you consciously choose good over evil remember that you’re behind the lines in enemy territory, not to mention in the minority.
 
Well, this is my understanding of it.

God made His creation perfect. However, he gave Man the freedom to accept that perfection-- His life, goodness, absence of sin, and love-- or to turn away. Man chose to turn away, and in so doing rejected God’s goodness and love. All the evil that happens in this world happens because of that choice Man made at the beginning, to reject God and all the good that comes from God. But God didn’t turn his back and reject us in His turn; because He is perfect love, he chose to continue to try to help us reach Heaven, which is why He sent His Son.

God is always trying to turn us away from evil, but because of Man’s fallen nature-- our rejection of God-- we have lost our natural inclination to goodness and have instead a natural inclination to evil. God gives us the graces necessary to overcome and conquer this evil inclination of ours, but it is up to us to decide whether we will accept them and turn from evil, or reject them and turn from the goodness which is God. It is our own deeds, not God’s, which are responsible for the state the world is in now.

Do you follow that reasoning?
 
If your create something, you are responible for it.

Nothing is immune to that truth, not you or your god.

If you have a child, it’s your responsibility to make sure no undue harm comes to that child.

“god”, has failed his children, he’s like the stepdad who hucks beer bottles at his kids.

Remember your bible stories, the parting of the red sea to save the innocent slave, they make it to the other side, then god lets the sea go, kill the enitre enemy force?

Why does stuff like that never happen now? The Holocaust, Rwanda, Bosnia, Kosovo weren’t important enough for god to get off his cloud?
 
I think that “The Screwtape Letters” by CS Lewis might be of some use to you, (they certainly were to me in answering, or at least approaching an answer to the questions you raised).

In a nutshell to why does God give us spiritual “dry-spells” (which can cover a multitude of concepts as you mentioned), a senior daemon is warning a younger daemon that the slightest inkling of the Lords presence to humans when he leads them by the hand is of little concern. The danger for evil is when the Lord withdraws and leaves humans to walk by themselves. An ordinary human, seemingly forsaken by the Lord and yet still obeys is a much greater threat to the forces of evil.

And as for God not being responsible for us? Remember, He had stepped in countless times in OT times and made no difference as humanity kept making the same mistakes. He then came down as an ordinary human and died at our hands after showing us how to behave. The Lord never once asked any of us to die for him. As far as I see it, I owe the Lord but can never repay it but with my love and gratitude.
 
You have two dogs. You brought them up from puppyhood, they’re the apples of your eye, you love them very much and you want them to live together and be your companions for the rest of their lives.

They start fighting with each other. You have a couple of choices to stop them: you could drag them apart and put them in kennels, letting only one out at a time; or you can work to try and gentle them towards each other, giving them the opportunity to stop fighting. Shutting them up in a cage-- what does that do? Stops their fighting, sure, but also takes away their free will: they didn’t choose to stop fighting, you chose it for them. Whereas if you let your dogs loose, they may still be fighting one another, but you are also standing by ready to help them should they choose to turn away from fighting.

It is all about free will. God gave us the gift of free will when he made us, and he’s not going to take it away.

If you remember some of the Bible stories, you will also remember that God allowed Israel to be punished with exile, slavery, even death, because they turned away from Him. In seeing the evil that existed when He did not help them, they were made to realize the need they had for God. The Israelites were slaves for an awful long time before Moses came to lead them through the Red Sea.
 
You have two dogs.
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You want to start bringing animal analogies into this?

The lord is your shepherd, you his flock, the devil/evil the wolves, and I the sheep dog.

The way I see things going on, the shepherd is off writting poetry, daydreaming, instead of watching the his sheep. The only thing protecting the sheep is the loyal and brave dog, raised to see sheep as if they were members of his pack.

But as the shepherd is not doing his duty, wolves strike. The sheep have no chance, other than the lone dog, who without a single though of self or greed, attacks the pack of wolves.

There is a firce fight, flashing fangs and bloody fur. At the end, the sheep remain safe save a few that were wounded, and the blood covered dog. But because of all the noise, the shepherd finnialy clues in and comes running, he then see the wounded sheep and bloody dog. In his wisdom he knows that the dog must have mad like the wolves and attacked the sheep, he then kills the dog.

I feel like I’m going to end up like that dog, punnished for natural courage and loyalty.
They start fighting with each other. You have a couple of choices to stop them: you could drag them apart and put them in kennels, letting only one out at a time; or you can work to try and gentle them towards each other, giving them the opportunity to stop fighting. Shutting them up in a cage-- what does that do? Stops their fighting, sure, but also takes away their free will: they didn’t choose to stop fighting, you chose it for them. Whereas if you let your dogs loose, they may still be fighting one another, but you are also standing by ready to help them should they choose to turn away from fighting.
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You know nothing about training animals do you?

A friend I use to know had a crazy dog, it attacked any other dog it saw.

You know what they did? They got a chain for it, everytime it made an error, it was punnished. Eventualy, the dog didn’t senselessly attack, and was even safe enough around children.

And don’t forget, some dogs retain to much of their wolf nature and should be shot.

You need better animal analogies,
Whereas if you let your dogs loose, they may still be fighting one another, but you are also standing by ready to help them should they choose to turn away from fighting.
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Honestly, that just leaves you with a dead dog.
 
Fine, that was a stupid analogy. I write stupid analogies.

Anyway.

Put in God, then, and a couple of people or nations, or whatever. If these two nations are fighting and causing untold damage and death and suffering, I take it you want God to come down and intervene. Strike the bad guy dead, or whatever it takes. Wouldn’t that still take away the free will of the people involved? I mean, you gave them no choice in the matter. “Yes, you have the freedom to do as you please, until it gets too ugly-- then I will stop you.”

Forget my stupid analogy and look at the second part of my last post, which you did not respond to. Any comments to that?
 
Wouldn’t that still take away the free will of the people involved?
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Freewill? Freewill is in an illusion, as least for me

I am what I am, I can only react to certain things a certain way.

That’s one of the things, there’s war and all sorts of shit, but I can’t ignore it, to even try drives me insane. I have no choice.

Now getting into why I reject god, god, right or wrong in doing so I don’t care, allows the world the way it is, and I’m forced in my actions.

In those actions, means to sin, vilontly and greatly.

God forces me to fight war, and then ask forgiveness for doing so, failure do so results in hell?

I will not have my actions ruled by fear, for anything done in fear is not worth doing.
 
The US military is made up of volunteers. Ask yourself , what are your intentions in being in the Army. At the age of 32, I enlisted because I thought I had something to bring to the table. I felt I could bring some young fellow home alive. I volunteered for a LRS infantry unit to do airborne long range surveilance. The eyes and ears for the 29th I.D… This type of unit avoids contact to complete a task. Contact could mean death for a 8 man (light) or 16 man (heavy) team. I knew full well what I was getting into and was very proud to do it. Then the hand of God intervened. I was diagnosed with cancer prior to shipping. Instead of fighting in Iraq with my unit, I was at home fighting for my life. God made it very clear I was to stay at home with my family and all glory and honar was His. Don’t leave Him out of your life because of pride or you may find yourself in a world of hurt. You will do nothing unless He allows it. Just ask Him to guide you through this. You should pray to be an extention of His hand and to follow His will. God Bless you for your service, Tim
 
Avor said:
Freewill? Freewill is in an illusion, as least for me

I am what I am, I can only react to certain things a certain way.

That’s one of the things, there’s war and all sorts of shit, but I can’t ignore it, to even try drives me insane. I have no choice.

Now getting into why I reject god, god, right or wrong in doing so I don’t care, allows the world the way it is, and I’m forced in my actions.

In those actions, means to sin, vilontly and greatly.

God forces me to fight war, and then ask forgiveness for doing so, failure do so results in hell?

I will not have my actions ruled by fear, for anything done in fear is not worth doing.
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You do have free will. God did not make you join the army.
Incidentally, you are misinformed on so many counts, but let me explain your most basic arguments and why you needn’t be in such turmoil.
First, you seem to think you have to ask forgiveness for killing in the military. You don’t. You are saving lives by stopping unjust aggressors. Protecting the innocent is good, even if it means killing. God does not expect you to just sit idly by while children are slaughtered and forgive those who did it. Ultimately you should work toward forgiveness of enemies, but not let them persist in evil.
Secondly, God does hear prayers and answer them. I have had so many instances where He was there for me that I shall not doubt. God sent the Blessed Mother to a group of 6 children in Rwanda telling them there would be a bloodbath if the people did not change their sinful ways. This was 20 years before it actually happened. She said it would be so bad that the living would envy the dead. The people did not heed this warning. When you persist in sin, God’s grace cannot help you. He is giving it constantly, but when you shut yourself off by unrepentent sinning, it cannot penetrate your soul. God cannot exist in the same place as sin, so when a people is very sinful, God’s protection cannot remain. You can’t take off your bulletproof vest then complain when you get shot.
Also remember that God is eternal and exists outside of time. He sees all. You do not. I think some humility would do you some good. God didn’t tell you to join the army and i didn’t either, so quit acting like you had to and that you’re doing the world a favor by doing “God’s work” since He won’t. I know it’s a scary prospect to die defending people, many of whom will be ungrateful jerks. You are brave and have a good heart, but there are many men and women just like you who don’t have a messiah complex. Get over yourself.
My last point is that God acts responsibly for us every day. We are His creations and He has not abandoned us. I am a parent. My children petition me every day for many things. I give them everything they need and many things they want. I do not let them have everything they want, though, because it might hurt them or be otherwise unwise (a spool of dental floss completely unwound gets dirty). I protect them from many injuries, but sometimes I let them get hurt so they learn what not to do. That way, as they get older, they’ll become more independent and capable of coping with reality. I also don’t comfort them every single time they cry. Sometimes they need to learn to get over stuff on their own.
God is like that. The difference between God and mortal parents is that when God lets his children die, they often come live with Him forever. If I let my child die, i’m just a failure. Being God has definite advantages.
Please don’t hate God. He is LOVE, not contradictions that no one can live by. I don’t mean any disrespect, but you don’t sound like someone with the psychological capability to handle war. Most guys don’t become embittered until they’re veterans and have actually done “God’s work”. If there is a base counsellor you can talk to, it might be worth your while. My older brother was not cut out for the army. He served in the first Gulf War and still has some problems to this day. You don’t want to wreck your life because you were too proud to admit that you weren’t qualified for the job.
God bless you and I do hope you gain a deeper understanding of God. He doesn’t want to make you kill and then beg his forgiveness. I promise you.
 
I don’t mean any disrespect, but you don’t sound like someone with the psychological capability to handle war.
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Unless you’ve done a few tours of real combat, or have some kind of degree in psychology, I suggest you go **** yourself.

Im between courses at the moment, so I take the time to re-evaluate everything about my ehtos, ethics, life, and my place in the world. It’s a healthy thing to do, to see if Im still right, and to help see if going insane or losing it.
Also remember that God is eternal and exists outside of time. He sees all. You do not. I think some humility would do you some good
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“As highly or misguided as a man may think of himself, he is only flawed when he thinks less of others.”
God didn’t tell you to join the army and i didn’t either, so quit acting like you had to and that you’re doing the world a favor by doing “God’s work”
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No booming voice directing me, nobody on the street walkin up to me and asking me to defend them, your right there, but still only half right.

I’ll say it again. I am what I am.

I look at the world, the way it is, and I can only react one way to it. Anybody can see the suffering the world, but most people just block it out or let is pass, I cannot. It’s constantly with me, things I learnt about years ago still haunt my dreams today. To such suffering, there is only one course of action.

I tried to force these things out of my mind, and I almost lost it. I tried to force those things out of my mind, to do or use someting to make it go away, and all I got was a feeling of utter lose and darkness. I once tried to drink it away, I drank a dangerous amount and I don’t remember anything. I still hear stories of even then, in my sleep how I cried over the suffering of Vietnam. There is nothing that can force these thoughts, throughts that drive me to war, out my head.

I also tried to just ignore it, to live with it, to force peace onto myself. I kept trying to tell myself that one soldier doesnt matter, that there are other things I can do to do good, to think about my family, ect. I couldn’t do it, just can’t ignore it. I do not know of anywords to discribe how it made me feel trying to ingnore it, other than I know i could not live with myself like that.

I have no freewill because I have no other choice, I can only react one way to this situation. If I do not do this, I simply can’t exist, nor would I want to.

Now Im drunk and sleeply, goodnight.
 
To truely do good and great in the world means to act with such untold courage, selflessness, to do what’s right no matter the cost, even if it leads to places where even angels fear to tred.

How can it be, that demands are so forced upon us, for something that we would freely give?
 
Unless you’ve done a few tours of real combat, or have some kind of degree in psychology, I suggest you go **** yourself.

Well I have been to combat and you are not ready to go to war. You are unstable and I would not want you on the front lines with me. Seek some help.

By the way, what outfit are you in and what is your rank and your AFSC or MOS? Also what training have you had?
 
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