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Phemie
Guest
True, it was only in the late 1800s that Louis Pasteur’s discoveries made it SOP for doctors to wash their hands between doing autopsies on women who’d died of “childbed fever” and examining women in labor.
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C
Cat
Guest
I say live and let live. If someone chooses to use hand sanitizer, what’s it to you?
I work in a microbiology lab in a hospital. MRSA (methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus is a true threat to all people, not just immuno-compromised people. Most of the MRSA infections we see are young people in their 20s–healthy young people, not people with cancer or HIV (they get it and die from it).
Many people catch it from the family dog when he sits in their favorite chair. Others catch it from equipment or mats at their local gym (and you thought you were doing something healthy to go work out).
MRSA is a killer if it gets into your bloodstream. And even it it doesn’t kill, it can debilitate and cost a fortune. I contracted an MRSA infection in my armpit two years ago. Golf ball sized lumps under my arm and in my boob, and I felt sick and weak from the infection. Of course this meant that I had to put off my mammogram for several months, and when I did go in, it looked suspicious because of the remnants of lumps left by the MRSA. I had to get a diagnostic mam, which is not covered by insurance. (It was negative, which is what the docs predicted, but they had to rule out CA).
The treatment that finally got rid of the MRSA infection for me was rifampin, one of the “big gun” antibiotics. Costs a fortune.
Ditto for the nasty viruses. I got the flu several years ago–missed 21 days of work, contracted bacterial pneumonia as a secondary infection, and had to go in for chest x-rays for a year. (There is still damage in the lungs from the bacteria.) I was weak for six months–could barely walk one lap around the track. Finally got my strength back.
If I had been old or immunocompromised in some way, that flu/pneumonia probably would have killed me.
It is good stewardship of our “temples” (bodies) to take care of them and try to prevent them from contracting a serious microbial infection. People shouldn’t be criticized if they decide to use hand sanitizers to protect themselves.
I work in a microbiology lab in a hospital. MRSA (methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus is a true threat to all people, not just immuno-compromised people. Most of the MRSA infections we see are young people in their 20s–healthy young people, not people with cancer or HIV (they get it and die from it).
Many people catch it from the family dog when he sits in their favorite chair. Others catch it from equipment or mats at their local gym (and you thought you were doing something healthy to go work out).
MRSA is a killer if it gets into your bloodstream. And even it it doesn’t kill, it can debilitate and cost a fortune. I contracted an MRSA infection in my armpit two years ago. Golf ball sized lumps under my arm and in my boob, and I felt sick and weak from the infection. Of course this meant that I had to put off my mammogram for several months, and when I did go in, it looked suspicious because of the remnants of lumps left by the MRSA. I had to get a diagnostic mam, which is not covered by insurance. (It was negative, which is what the docs predicted, but they had to rule out CA).
The treatment that finally got rid of the MRSA infection for me was rifampin, one of the “big gun” antibiotics. Costs a fortune.
Ditto for the nasty viruses. I got the flu several years ago–missed 21 days of work, contracted bacterial pneumonia as a secondary infection, and had to go in for chest x-rays for a year. (There is still damage in the lungs from the bacteria.) I was weak for six months–could barely walk one lap around the track. Finally got my strength back.
If I had been old or immunocompromised in some way, that flu/pneumonia probably would have killed me.
It is good stewardship of our “temples” (bodies) to take care of them and try to prevent them from contracting a serious microbial infection. People shouldn’t be criticized if they decide to use hand sanitizers to protect themselves.
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Catholic90
Guest
I think it is a good thing!
My 14 year old carries around a bottle of this stuff during school. He uses it regularly and especially if someone is sick around him. He also uses the sanitary wipes to wipe down him desk and books, etc. He is very healthy!
As for mass, all the teachers at the Catholic school where I teach bring these to mass with them. After watching kids wipe their noses, pick their noses, cough into their hands, etc., then shaking everyone else’s hands, sanitizer is VERY much in order!
My 14 year old carries around a bottle of this stuff during school. He uses it regularly and especially if someone is sick around him. He also uses the sanitary wipes to wipe down him desk and books, etc. He is very healthy!
As for mass, all the teachers at the Catholic school where I teach bring these to mass with them. After watching kids wipe their noses, pick their noses, cough into their hands, etc., then shaking everyone else’s hands, sanitizer is VERY much in order!
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the_phoenix
Guest
Well all I know is, after one really weird incident I went through at Mass, I would be very happy with the hand sanitizing incident you describe.
During one memorable sermon which I will always remember due to the lady sitting next to me who distracted me so much that I have no idea what the priest said, the lady in question pulled out a bottle of lotion and began applying it to her hands. Okay, I thought, people have skin problems such as dry hands due to medical conditions, so I can understand discreetly taking care of such minor things at a quiet moment.
HOWEVER, the lady then began slathering GOBS and GOBS of the greasy smelly lotion all up and down her bare arms and legs (yes, she was wearing shorts) … just as if she were at the beach! It was quite a dramatic show she was providing and the stuff really reeked!
I quietly moved further down in the pew, but at the handshake of peace, she got in my face and extended her hand. Since it was possible that I was going to receive Communion in the hand that day, I had to come right out and tell her, “I’m sorry, but I do not want a hand full of lotion.”
Just when you think you’ve seen it all in church, you discover by surprise you haven’t.
~~ the phoenix
During one memorable sermon which I will always remember due to the lady sitting next to me who distracted me so much that I have no idea what the priest said, the lady in question pulled out a bottle of lotion and began applying it to her hands. Okay, I thought, people have skin problems such as dry hands due to medical conditions, so I can understand discreetly taking care of such minor things at a quiet moment.
HOWEVER, the lady then began slathering GOBS and GOBS of the greasy smelly lotion all up and down her bare arms and legs (yes, she was wearing shorts) … just as if she were at the beach! It was quite a dramatic show she was providing and the stuff really reeked!
I quietly moved further down in the pew, but at the handshake of peace, she got in my face and extended her hand. Since it was possible that I was going to receive Communion in the hand that day, I had to come right out and tell her, “I’m sorry, but I do not want a hand full of lotion.”
Just when you think you’ve seen it all in church, you discover by surprise you haven’t.
~~ the phoenix
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jrabs
Guest
To the OP - why would you take this as a personal slight or rejection? Are you an over-sensitive person?
Taking care of one’s self is not a personal slight at all. Do you realize how many people do not use the washroom properly? Do you realize how easy it is to spread germs?
My spouse and I are both careful when it comes to germs. Recently came off a cruise ship where the staff’s mantra is wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. Why would that be I wonder?
Makes sense to ward off illness.
That said, I promptly take out the sanitizer before I head to receive the Eucharist. If you take it personally, then that becomes your problem and it is not mine to even consider.
But honestly, if it bothers you, then you have put too much effort into thinking about the problem.
Taking care of one’s self is not a personal slight at all. Do you realize how many people do not use the washroom properly? Do you realize how easy it is to spread germs?
My spouse and I are both careful when it comes to germs. Recently came off a cruise ship where the staff’s mantra is wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. Why would that be I wonder?
Makes sense to ward off illness.
That said, I promptly take out the sanitizer before I head to receive the Eucharist. If you take it personally, then that becomes your problem and it is not mine to even consider.
But honestly, if it bothers you, then you have put too much effort into thinking about the problem.
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fix
Guest
Is being hygienic now considered a phobia by many?
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Newbie2
Guest
Off topic, but let’s squash this before it goes any further. As a practicing veterinarian of 20 years, I can say that MRSA is definitely NOT “caught from the family dog when he sits in their favorite chair”. People with normally functioning immune systems do not catch MRSA from their pets.
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Cat
Guest
Here’s a link to a CDC article:
cdc.gov/NCIDOD/eid/vol11no12/05-0241.htm
With all due respect, our infectious disease docs are quite intelligent, and the eight people in our microbiology department are on the ball, too. Fact: animals serve as a reservoir of MRSA.
And people with functioning immune systems are not immune from contracting MRSA infections. We see dozens and dozens of healthy 20 somethings with MRSA every week in our hospital.
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lizaanne
Guest
All of this is just another reason for doing away with this silliness in the Mass. We don’t do this at our parish - only the priest offers the sign of peace to the people - and I much prefer it that way. We can all greet each other and be social before or after Mass - and on our own terms.
At my previous parish I was at an evening Mass and was standing next to a guy who was SO INCREDIBLY ill and blowing his nose through the entire Mass. I mean he really should have been home in bed. I could not believe that he didn’t just stand there quietly in prayer for the sign of peace, but offered his snotty hand to everyone around him. I stood silently in prayer and did not shake with anyone.
Sorry - there really is no need for this nonsense. We are just just fine without it at our parish, and I’m so very happy that Father does not include this.
Just another Vatican II misunderstanding. Do you honestly believe that the intention of this was for the Mass to turn into a circus or social hour, with priests walking up and down aisles like politicians and kids high fiveing their friends while the band plays on? Um - no.
~Liza
At my previous parish I was at an evening Mass and was standing next to a guy who was SO INCREDIBLY ill and blowing his nose through the entire Mass. I mean he really should have been home in bed. I could not believe that he didn’t just stand there quietly in prayer for the sign of peace, but offered his snotty hand to everyone around him.
I stood silently in prayer and did not shake with anyone.Sorry - there really is no need for this nonsense. We are just just fine without it at our parish, and I’m so very happy that Father does not include this.
Just another Vatican II misunderstanding. Do you honestly believe that the intention of this was for the Mass to turn into a circus or social hour, with priests walking up and down aisles like politicians and kids high fiveing their friends while the band plays on? Um - no.
~Liza
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water
Guest
There are EHMC’s who do this before the Communion. I am thankful that they do that.I just have to rant a bit…
I felt a little upset today during Mass. After the Our Father and the Sign of Peace handshakes, the woman next to me pulls out hand sanitizer and wipes her handsI understand their are people that have phobias about germs but it really bothered me that they would do such a thing…as if they were that clean!
What would one think when an EHMC shake hand with someone who just blew their nose?
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ElizabethPH
Guest
If I have a cold I always carry some with me for Mass; and apply it before the hand shake. But I must admit I used to have that phobia but never took it to that extreme. I have since gotten over it.I just have to rant a bit…
I felt a little upset today during Mass. After the Our Father and the Sign of Peace handshakes, the woman next to me pulls out hand sanitizer and wipes her hands
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Sarabande
Guest
Yes, very true. This is one of the many reasons why the mortality rates in children and adults were so incredibly high prior to the importance of hygiene. Only the strongest survived back then. The weaker ones who couldn’t make it past a simple disease died - simple as that. If you look at old graveyards, you’ll literally see family graves where couples had 10 children and out of those 10 only 3 may survive past the age of 8. One grave in particular that I know of had 6 children and 5 of them didn’t last a year. Every year, they looked like they tried for another baby and each year the baby died. This was in the early 1900s in farm country - which was usually cleaner than the city back then. We take take our health, the longevity and the low mortality rate of young people for granted today.
Another example is that in Colonial America they didn’t realize that by not washing their dishes, they would be passing germs and diseases. Sometimes, their way of “cleaning” a dish was by taking a piece of bread to soak up the crumbs and gravy left on the plate till that it looked “clean”. Also in our reenactments where we try to be authentic, if we do wash the dishes, the same dirty water is used and is never truly clean. Needless-to-say at the end of the day or the encampment, they get a good cleansing.
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Sarabande
Guest
If I have a cold and have no way of cleaning my hands, I’ll tell the other I have one and just wish them peace with my words. People usually understand and appear very grateful. If I shake hands with a person who was sneezing (I just did this yesterday. I didn’t realize she was the one sneezing until right after I shook her hand) I make a point not to touch anything and at the end of the mass, I find a place to wash my hands.If I have a cold I always carry some with me for Mass; and apply it before the hand shake. But I must admit I used to have that phobia but never took it to that extreme. I have since gotten over it.
NOW… the only reason I am germ concious is because I’m a professional singer and once I get a cold or anything that affects my vocal chords - I’m out of making my living. I have to be as healthy as possible. Otherwise, I don’t really care about getting a simple cold. Subways are the worst ways of getting sick. Last winter I had three people basically sneeze my way without covering their mouths - and I ended up getting sick and cancelling three gigs - there went our mortgage payment for the month. Oh well. But if I can avoid getting sick, I will, even if that means using a hand sanitizer.
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Sarabande
Guest
Haha! Yes, I taught music at a Catholic school for two years soon after college. My first year, I was sick almost every other week. This was due to my adorable little pre-K and Kindergarten students always hugging me and holding my hands, etc. I loved them back, but it wasn’t until one of the teachers brought in a hand sanitizer into her classroom that I got myself one as well and didn’t get as sick. Luckily, I wasn’t singing professionally as much then, but I would have never been able to sing that year due to all the different colds I got.
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SoulRebel777
Guest
haha give me a break sara.
How long have people been using this hand product, what 5 years or so? in the last few years its growing more and more popular. you people live in fear of sickness, and of the real world maybe this is why you spend to much time on the computer?? just a thought.
If you dont want to get sick do these things instead.
Eat better, workout, and draw closer to God thus lower stress. 90 percent of illness is caused by these three factors of not eating right, lack of exercise, and stress.
I havent been sick in years , and i think a big part of that is because i dont worry about getting sick. I trust God will keep me well.
You realize this hand product you all were brainwashed to start using doesnt do anything right? You all buy into what the advertisers are saying to you through there clever commericals and the latest news broadcast about health.
you trust them because you are so motivated by the external words and dont listen to the internal words of God.
those are my thoughts ladiies…
If you were my wife, girlfriend fiance , , sister, mom …id make you throw it away and free you from that phobia…
How long have people been using this hand product, what 5 years or so? in the last few years its growing more and more popular. you people live in fear of sickness, and of the real world maybe this is why you spend to much time on the computer?? just a thought.
If you dont want to get sick do these things instead.
Eat better, workout, and draw closer to God thus lower stress. 90 percent of illness is caused by these three factors of not eating right, lack of exercise, and stress.
I havent been sick in years , and i think a big part of that is because i dont worry about getting sick. I trust God will keep me well.
You realize this hand product you all were brainwashed to start using doesnt do anything right? You all buy into what the advertisers are saying to you through there clever commericals and the latest news broadcast about health.
you trust them because you are so motivated by the external words and dont listen to the internal words of God.
those are my thoughts ladiies…
If you were my wife, girlfriend fiance , , sister, mom …id make you throw it away and free you from that phobia…
O
onetimeposter
Guest
Wow, what a rebel…freeing us from the slavery of good hygiene!
Please enlighten me, what does the eternal words of God say about washing your hands?
I’m glad that you trust that God will keep you well and it’s great that God looks out for you and keeps your safe from microbes, while the rest of us don’t share this heavenly protection…we rely on hand sanitizer.
You trust God will keep you well.
I trust hand gel will keep me well.
If God was all that were required to keep us well…why the need for hospitals and Doctors? What, for those without Faith?
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water
Guest
I hope those aren’t your actions.
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jrabs
Guest
Why are you addressing the ladies only?
As if men should not strive for cleanliness?
Curious if you have kids…kids bring home a plethora of ratty 'ol germs.
Also curious if you have ever been on a cruise ship? Reason why I ask is that I was fortunate enough to chat with the head chef on my last cruise. Very fascinating conversation.
There are hand sanitizing stations prevalently posted all about the ship. Now ,he went on to tell us how horrible it was to have 80% of the ship - staff and passengers come down with MRSA a few years back. Since they are his words I cannot verify, but I got the point.
It got so bad that he personally blocked the entrance of the dining room until every person used the sanitizer.
I’ve grown fond of my hand gel.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
I don’t eat as well as I should, don’t exercise, and am under stress and yet I haven’t been sick much at all. I wash my hands, clean the phones and doorknobs at work, and, when soap and water aren’t available I use sanitizers. I am aware of their limitations and prefer regular soap, not antibacterial.
Healthy eating, exercise and other healthful practices are good habits to have but they are not a panacea.
Less condescension is a good habit, too.
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Cat
Guest
One of the most interesting and terrifying aspects of microbiology is how quickly a strong, “healthy” person can be killed by a simple bacteria or virus.
It is foolish and arrogant to think that you are safe because you eat right, work out, and stay stress free. It is also arrogant to think that because you haven’t been sick in years that you won’t get sick.
The people that we see with MRSA are healthy people who work out in gymnasiums regularly, eat right, and consider themselves fit and stress-free. But when their skin comes into contact with MRSA, they catch it just like all of us old, fat, unfit, stress-filled people.
Usually people don’t die of MRSA, but if it gets into their bloodstream (sepsis), they can die. It’s an awful thing to see a young, strong athletic person die of a germ.
Bacteria are becoming more resistant every year. I’ve worked in microbiology for almost 30 years (except for when my daughters were small), and I’ve seen bacteria that used to be sensitive to almost all antibiotics become progressively more resistant.
We now have strains of Pseudomonas that are resistant to every known antibiotic. You pick up one of those and…
There is no reason to be phobic, but there are plenty of reasons to be wise. This is just good stewardship of the body that God gave you.
In our hospital, the Number One first line of defense against spreading any infection is HANDWASHING! If you cannot wash your hands, the sanitizers will help.
Certainly, staying fit, eating a balanced healthy diet, and trying to stay on an even keel emotionally will help build up your immune system, along with sleeping adequate hours. But again, this means nothing to nasty strains of bacteria–those tiny critters can level you to the earth in 48 hours even if you’re Mr. or Ms. Healthy Living. Don’t fear them, but don’t underestimate their power.
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