Handheld Devices at Mass & Adoration

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

i’m a techie and i think this is a great idea. but i also see the side that can be abused. most electronics now have full capabilites including the internet. how do you know one person is flipping through an e-Missal instead of Facebook during mass? do we implement deadzones inside the church? but how about the doctors, policemen, firemen, etc who come to mass and may need to be called in?

Is it our job to police what others are doing? They may have a missal open but could have a novel in a missal cover. Its not our job to ensure that people are doing what they should be doing at Mass, they are adults.

It is against the law to create a true deadzone anywhere in the United States.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The electronic device, in my opinion, carries a greater means of temptation to go off into other sites that are not necessarily religious. Thus, one could conceivably go to Facebook, myspace of twitter. Unfortunately, I’ve seen the kids with iphones texting during the homily, not using the Missal app to follow along.

I have an iPod touch, it looks like an iPhone but it is not one. It only has wifi connectivity, so within a Church I could not go to any other sites, unless the Church has an unsecured wifi network up.

But that is besides the point, why must we police what adults chose to do at Mass? If it is a temptation for them then they should not bring it. I know of priests who do not even what a book missal to be used, do we have to listen to them when they say this?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It’s times like these that I wish I was “in charge” (most of the time… thank G-d I’m NOT lol).

Anyway, Church’s could replace their missals with ipads (in a decade or two, when the price goes down a lot). These ipads could be downloaded to feature ONLY the Mass of the day, as well as have different versions of the Bible, CCC, and other books on Catholicism as well as Church documents. With ONLY THESE on the ipad, the need to buy missal after missal (for the pews) is non existant. Furthermore, one now has easy access to them during Adoration or private prayer time. A simple security system could be installed on them so that if they left the Church building an alarm would go off. Furthermore, they could display the music for Mass (all in real time, meaning that as it’s being said or being sung or being read it could/would appear on the ipad like device).

But the temptation to misuse it will still be there. The person could be reading the Bible or the CCC rather than following along with Mass.

The same goes for a book missal, who says that the person using the book missal is on Today’s Mass and not reading something else contained within the missal. My missal has a section of prayers, I could be reading them rather than following along and participating in Mass.

The only way around this I can see is to outlaw any and all hand held items, by the books, electronic devices, rosaries, anything that can detract in anyway from total participation with the Mass. But as I said in my last to posts, we are adults and it is not our job to make sure our neighbor is paying attention and fully participating in Mass, it is our job to make sure that we are paying attention and fully participating.

 

[benedictgal]

The only reason they should have such devices out during the homily is to take notes and read the relevant Scripture passages that the Priest may be quoting (my wife does this), or perhaps go over the reading again. Of course, the kids (if approached) may ask why you were paying attention to them and looking at the iPhone screens and not listening to the Priest. The touchscreens are designed as such they make no sound, so all you’ll really see is just some finger movements.

The temptation is going to be there anyway even if you take away handheld devices. As someone else said, they’ll distract themselves with songbooks and conventional missals, using them in a distracted manner. As someone with ADHD, I would know Are we going to remove those books as well?

Meanwhile a nook, kindle, and other e-readers can be very limited in their scope. If they do not connect to something like a 3G network there will be no Twitter/Texting/Facebook. There is a version of the iPad like this, and the conventional iPod Touch is like this as well. So unless the Church has an unsecured wireless network available (very, very very dumb if they did) those people wouldn’t be able to surf on the Internet.

As someone who typically gets Nintendo devices (such as the DS), the only way this is really applicable to me is playing audio files using headphones (at reasonable volumes of course) while at the Adoration Chapel, which I’m assuming due to the total lack of responses on that thus far everyone is fine with.

Of course, considering I placed my credentials in my signature here it should come as no surprise I’m pro-technology.

However, just because something doesn’t make a sound, that does not necessarily mean that it can’t be distracting. As Elizabeth noted:

They differ from paper distractions (such as a child or adult reading a non-religious book) in that electronics have visual dimensions that paper does not. Electronics are backlit, and the images are not static. They are much more difficult to just ignore.

Reading the bulletin or something else is not as distracting to another person, as, I believe, a handheld device would be.

 

[bmadamsberry]

But the temptation to misuse it will still be there. The person could be reading the Bible or the CCC rather than following along with Mass.

The same goes for a book missal, who says that the person using the book missal is on Today’s Mass and not reading something else contained within the missal. My missal has a section of prayers, I could be reading them rather than following along and participating in Mass.

The only way around this I can see is to outlaw any and all hand held items, by the books, electronic devices, rosaries, anything that can detract in anyway from total participation with the Mass. But as I said in my last to posts, we are adults and it is not our job to make sure our neighbor is paying attention and fully participating in Mass, it is our job to make sure that we are paying attention and fully participating.

That’s why I said in “real time”. Basically, if Mass is being said then what is on the screen is what is being said/sung/read. There would be nothing else that could be done on the device. once Mass is over, then one would have the ability to read Scripture, look up prayers, look at different days for Mass, read Catholic books, etc. The “real time” thing does away with looking at anything else (at least on the device, that is).

 

[choy]

I have an iPod touch, it looks like an iPhone but it is not one. It only has wifi connectivity, so within a Church I could not go to any other sites, unless the Church has an unsecured wifi network up.

But that is besides the point, why must we police what adults chose to do at Mass? If it is a temptation for them then they should not bring it. I know of priests who do not even what a book missal to be used, do we have to listen to them when they say this?

we must police them because we are at Mass. there should be respect for the Lord. if one doesn’t wish to be there, one is free not to come to church

some people may be mentaly absent from Mass, but at least they’re not a distraction. if one person in the pew in front of me is flipping through Facebook photos, that would be a huge distraction for me even though how much i would try and focus on the Mass. i’m only human

 

[Elizabeth502]

Anyone who “must” have his or her cell phone on/available, even on silent, even to check, is not available for Mass, i.m.o. Decide when you’re available to God: at the 5 pm Vigil Mass? at the 7:30 am Sunday Mass if there is one? Or maybe you can find a parish with a late Sunday afternoon Mass. In my area there are two very late-night Masses on Sunday. Who are “you” that you are so essential to the world that the world cannot survive without keeping you On Notice at all times, apparently including when you are using the bathroom.

If you are an EMT, or a physician On Call for the entire weekend among your group of physicians, then you are most likely not available for Mass that weekend. In that case, you are excused from your Sunday obligation on that particular weekend. It would be helpful to you to try to get to Mass during the weekday, but not required for you.

If you are a parent and concerned that some babysitter needs to reach you during Mass, then your babysitter is not competent to replace you for that hour of Mass, or you, the parent, should not be at Mass that afternoon/morning/evening because your child needs you more than it needs the babysitter (such as for an ill child or a child needing more constant attention). Again in that situation, you would be excused from your obligation. Some very young children (the minority) are able to sit through Mass quietly without driving themselves and everyone around them to distraction; in that case you do not need a cell phone either. Many Catholic couples feel that they need to split up for Mass when the children are tiny and prone to accidents, etc. Dad attends one Mass (perhaps with the older children); Mom attends another. It’s temporary; it doesn’t mean you will forever not go to Mass as a family (before I get flamed here).

Fr. Corapi has mentioned that his mother was a nurse who was assigned Sunday hours which prevented her from attending Mass. It was probably also in the day when there were no Saturday Vigil Masses.

First things first. But a cell phone or other optional electronic device is not one of them.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

we must police them because we are at Mass. there should be respect for the Lord. if one doesn’t wish to be there, one is free not to come to church

some people may be mentaly absent from Mass, but at least they’re not a distraction. if one person in the pew in front of me is flipping through Facebook photos, that would be a huge distraction for me even though how much i would try and focus on the Mass. i’m only human

All I can say is that we are adults. If it is a distraction then do as I do and move.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh but where do we draw the line? I find the use of a missal by those in front of me to be a distraction if they are leafing through it rather than following along with the Mass. Is that their fault? No.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Anyone who “must” have his or her cell phone on/available, even on silent, even to check, is not available for Mass, i.m.o. Decide when you’re available to God: at the 5 pm Vigil Mass? at the 7:30 am Sunday Mass if there is one? Or maybe you can find a parish with a late Sunday afternoon Mass. In my area there are two very late-night Masses on Sunday. Who are “you” that you are so essential to the world that the world cannot survive without keeping you On Notice at all times, apparently including when you are using the bathroom.

If you are an EMT, or a physician On Call for the entire weekend among your group of physicians, then you are most likely not available for Mass that weekend. In that case, you are excused from your Sunday obligation on that particular weekend. It would be helpful to you to try to get to Mass during the weekday, but not required for you.

If you are a parent and concerned that some babysitter needs to reach you during Mass, then your babysitter is not competent to replace you for that hour of Mass, or you, the parent, should not be at Mass that afternoon/morning/evening because your child needs you more than it needs the babysitter (such as for an ill child or a child needing more constant attention). Again in that situation, you would be excused from your obligation. Some very young children (the minority) are able to sit through Mass quietly without driving themselves and everyone around them to distraction; in that case you do not need a cell phone either. Many Catholic couples feel that they need to split up for Mass when the children are tiny and prone to accidents, etc. Dad attends one Mass (perhaps with the older children); Mom attends another. It’s temporary; it doesn’t mean you will forever not go to Mass as a family (before I get flamed here).

Fr. Corapi has mentioned that his mother was a nurse who was assigned Sunday hours which prevented her from attending Mass. It was probably also in the day when there were no Saturday Vigil Masses.

First things first. But a cell phone or other optional electronic device is not one of them.

I don’t agree with this. I was fully able to be “available” for Mass until the pager went off and then after a quick check, if I was not needed to respond, then I was still “available”.

I think this is a topic where we will have to just agree to disagree.

I do not see any kind of “electronics police” removing people from Mass for using an iPod Touch app (not that I use any devices or even a missal except for the readings because of a hearing issue). The day that happens is the day I stop attending at the parish because who knows what will be next, too much cologne or perfume, too much makeup, not being dressed to the extent that others find acceptable.

I will say it one last time, we are adults.

 

[pnewton]

Anyone who “must” have his or her cell phone on/available, even on silent, even to check, is not available for Mass, i.m.o. Decide when you’re available to God: at the 5 pm Vigil Mass? at the 7:30 am Sunday Mass if there is one? Or maybe you can find a parish with a late Sunday afternoon Mass. In my area there are two very late-night Masses on Sunday. Who are “you” that you are so essential to the world that the world cannot survive without keeping you On Notice at all times, apparently including when you are using the bathroom.

If you are an EMT, or a physician On Call for the entire weekend among your group of physicians, then you are most likely not available for Mass that weekend. In that case, you are excused from your Sunday obligation on that particular weekend.

Being on call is not one of the reasons listed in the Catechism for being excused from the Sunday obligation. Being required to work is. There is a difference. Besides, what right does any one parishoner have to deprive a fellow parishoner of Mass and the Holy Eucharist on the basis they might be distracted by someone checking a message.

We are adults. Only the priest has the right to make such a request, or dispense from the Sunday obligation for such a reason. I have never known one to request an emergency service provider to refrain from Mass because of a possible emergency message. The rule is usually, set to vibrate and be discrere.

 

[choy]

Being on call is not one of the reasons listed in the Catechism for being excused from the Sunday obligation. Being required to work is. There is a difference. Besides, what right does any one parishoner have to deprive a fellow parishoner of Mass and the Holy Eucharist on the basis they might be distracted by someone checking a message.

We are adults. Only the priest has the right to make such a request, or dispense from the Sunday obligation for such a reason. I have never known one to request an emergency service provider to refrain from Mass because of a possible emergency message. The rule is usually, set to vibrate and be discrere.

and if you’re on call, best to take a seat near an exit

 

[Newbie2]

I agree with you except for when you said, “and if the user doesn’t go checking his messages during mass if it does vibrate.”

I used to work a job that when I was on-call I had to respond to the call within 15 minutes so I had to check all messages as they came in to determine if they fell within that time limit. If they did I would leave the Church to call in, if they didn’t I would stay.

I was thinking of kids that text and voicemail back and forth, but yeah, if someone is on call as a physician or other emergency-type job it would be important to be able to respond fairly quickly if necessary.

I used to be on call in a ambulatory veterinary medical practice years ago, and informed my clients that they could call any hour of the day or night, except Sunday morning between 9 and 10, or at least know I would not be available to return calls during that time. They seem to have respected that and I never got interrupted during mass.

However, just because something doesn’t make a sound, that does not necessarily mean that it can’t be distracting.

Like the kid eating boogers in the pew right in front of you.

I suspect the use of these things will be so commonplace in 10 or 20 years, for things we haven’t even thought about yet, that they’ll cease to be much of a distraction.

Good point, though. I’ve never heard a Missal go off during mass.

and if you’re on call, best to take a seat near an exit

Good advice.

 

[pnewton]

and if you’re on call, best to take a seat near an exit

Great idea.

The only time I have been in this situation is when I had to go from work to cover music for Mass during extenuating circumstances. I have a discrete side door. This is good, because our newest musician is a cardiologist and rotates on call. He has received messages, but as of yet has not had to leave. Sometimes you have to make do with the resources at hand.

 

[LilyM]

It’s 2010 and now we have a plethora of handheld devices. Sometimes these cause great distractions during Mass and Adoration. However, I wanted to offer the following for people’s opinions and start a dialogue;

1. Rather than follow along on a paperback missal, my wife follows the Mass using an application on her iPod Touch. In addition to the usual missal stuff, she also has several Bibles on there so she can look up different translations when the Priest quotes Scriptures during the homily (or if there’s a reading that week that she wants to look into more). It also lets her take notes and things like that. And, because there’s no Internet in the Church, there’s no online activity. It’s essentially a digital book.

Personally, so long as it’s be used as a digital book and it doesn’t distract people (which is quite easy, we usually sit behind everyone) I have no problem with this. With tablets (iPad) becoming more popular we might even see more of this.

Taking notes? Checking translations? Yikes. It’s Mass, not study hall. Praise and worship and sacrifice, not an academic lecture. To me it feels like the point is getting a little lost here.

The Apostles didn’t sit at Jesus’ feet writing down His words. Nor did He EVER ask them to produce any writings at all, nor produce any Himself that we know of. None of the writing happened until decades after He’d gone.

Nor did He preach to the effect of ‘well, THIS translation of the Torah says ‘an eye for an eye’ but THIS translation says it slightly differently …’ in the manne of a theology or scripture studies professor.

Of course study is well and good, but its place, I feel (and note this is my opinion) is not during Mass but before or after.

 

[Melchior_1]

Taking notes? Checking translations? Yikes. It’s Mass, not study hall. Praise and worship and sacrifice, not an academic lecture. To me it feels like the point is getting a little lost here.

The Apostles didn’t sit at Jesus’ feet writing down His words. Nor did He EVER ask them to produce any writings at all, nor produce any Himself that we know of. None of the writing happened until decades after He’d gone.

Nor did He preach to the effect of ‘well, THIS translation of the Torah says ‘an eye for an eye’ but THIS translation says it slightly differently …’ in the manne of a theology or scripture studies professor.

Of course study is well and good, but its place, I feel (and note this is my opinion) is not during Mass but before or after.

Not only is my wife is a convert from a non-denominational background (where study of the Scriptures was encouraged), but she is very academically oriented. Whereas some have a profound emotional conversion story, she converted for academic and intellectual reasons. She is not prone to blind faith, she must research things to satisfy her mind. For this reason she likes to take notes and look up Scripture.

By the way, at least two Apostles DID right Jesus’ words down, if you’re in the school of thought that the Apostles Mathew and John wrote their Gospels. In Mark’s case, he traveled with Peter and wrote down what was said there.

EDIT: Still no comments about using audio/electronic devices in the Adoration Chapel.

 

[benedictgal]

Not only is my wife is a convert from a non-denominational background (where study of the Scriptures was encouraged), but she is very academically oriented. Whereas some have a profound emotional conversion story, she converted for academic and intellectual reasons. She is not prone to blind faith, she must research things to satisfy her mind. For this reason she likes to take notes and look up Scripture.

By the way, at least two Apostles DID right Jesus’ words down, if you’re in the school of thought that the Apostles Mathew and John wrote their Gospels. In Mark’s case, he traveled with Peter and wrote down what was said there.

EDIT: Still no comments about using audio/electronic devices in the Adoration Chapel.

But, their writing was not within the context of the liturgy, Melchior. They wrote down what Jesus said, but, it’s the “when” that is important. It certainly did not happen during the cultic sacrificial Temple worship.

Now, the same principle would apply to Adoration, as I see it. This would be especially true if you are in a chapel where the lights are dim and, what would be considered soft lighting emiting from an ipad would probably be the equivalent of a flourescent light. Also, imagine this during the Easter Vigil when the only light that is supposed to be shinging is from the Paschal Candle, but, all of a sudden, someone decides to use his ipad or his iphone to follow the service of light. That would pretty much kill it because in darkness, an ipad and an ipod shine out like a lighthouse. So much for the beauty and the stark effect of everyone lighting their candles from the Paschal Candle.

 

[LookingForFaith]

I don’t have any problem using an eletronic device to aid in worship at adoration. As long as you aren’t singing out loud and distracting others. At Mass, I’m okay with others using the Ipad or Itouch instead of the missal…if it isn’t a distraction to themselves or the people around them. But I wouldn’t. I’m a bit of a technophobe…hehe the computer, cell phone and ipod is about as advanced as I get.

 

[Melchior_1]

But, their writing was not within the context of the liturgy, Melchior. They wrote down what Jesus said, but, it’s the “when” that is important. It certainly did not happen during the cultic sacrificial Temple worship.

Now, the same principle would apply to Adoration, as I see it. This would be especially true if you are in a chapel where the lights are dim and, what would be considered soft lighting emiting from an ipad would probably be the equivalent of a flourescent light. Also, imagine this during the Easter Vigil when the only light that is supposed to be shinging is from the Paschal Candle, but, all of a sudden, someone decides to use his ipad or his iphone to follow the service of light. That would pretty much kill it because in darkness, an ipad and an ipod shine out like a lighthouse. So much for the beauty and the stark effect of everyone lighting their candles from the Paschal Candle.

The writing could have been, BG. Someone wrote down the events of The Last Supper (the first Eucharist), after all (in addition to the Temple Liturgies the Jews performed). We have no idea if they wrote it down during or after. Tax Collectors are notorious record keepers, so I wouldn’t be shocked if Mathew at the very least wrote during it. The “when” is important, but like you said no one knows when it was written. We both cannot prove where/when they wrote it.

People shouldn’t be following the Service of Light anyway due to fire hazards regardless of the kinds of missals used. Paper and fires don’t get along apparently. When the candles are out people mostly should be listening anyway due to the darkness, whereas in a…we’ll say “normal” Mass there is enough light to read the missal so during a normal Mass it should be less distracting.

(And I guess overhead projectors which display the psalms so people can participate are out too because they emit light, right?).

I disagree with you on the Adoration Chapel. The light being emitted should not cause a distraction towards others. If it does those people would be distracted anyway by something shiny on the ground. And a MP3 player for devotional purposes should offer ZERO distractions, provided the headphones are not neon pink.

 

[choy]

The writing could have been, BG. Someone wrote down the events of The Last Supper (the first Eucharist), after all (in addition to the Temple Liturgies the Jews performed). We have no idea if they wrote it down during or after. Tax Collectors are notorious record keepers, so I wouldn’t be shocked if Mathew at the very least wrote during it. The “when” is important, but like you said no one knows when it was written. We both cannot prove where/when they wrote it.

i would contest that the tax collectors during the time of Jesus would be notorious record keepers. they seem to keep losing track of their collections, if you know what i mean

 

[Elizabeth502]

Being on call is not one of the reasons listed in the Catechism for being excused from the Sunday obligation. Being required to work is. There is a difference. Besides, what right does any one parishoner have to deprive a fellow parishoner of Mass and the Holy Eucharist on the basis they might be distracted by someone checking a message.

We are adults. Only the priest has the right to make such a request, or dispense from the Sunday obligation for such a reason. I have never known one to request an emergency service provider to refrain from Mass because of a possible emergency message. The rule is usually, set to vibrate and be discrere.

Indeed, we are adults. That’s why it’s important to interpret the catechism in the eyes of faith, fidelity, and in the spirit of prayer. If we’re on call, we are working. Period. It is a requirement of our job, at that time/moment, for us to be 'available" to our employer and/or to our clients/customers/the general public (such as someone who works Emergency Services – a police officer, an EMT, etc.); therefore we are working and therefore we are not fully available to God.

Besides, what right does any one parishoner have to deprive a fellow parishoner of Mass and the Holy Eucharist on the basis they might be distracted by someone checking a message.

Wow. Just wow.
There’s the spirit of Eucharist, the spirit of Community, the commitment to One Body-One Spirit, one Lord of All. Again, “might” is not even the question for many of us. More like “will” be distracted, major. Electronics are an excuse. What did the world do before the existence of these conveniences? They coped. They dealt with an hour of silence. They made the rest of the world wait for them. Again, otherwise you are not available to God. You are available and on High Alert for apparently whoever takes precedence over God.

In one of the extremely liberal parishes I attend (I attend a variety – from EF to NO), even they insist on all cell phones and pagers being completely off. Most of us have the good sense to leave our electornics in the car.

I’m definitely going to run this question by some good orthodox traditionalist priests as to whether having to be on call (apparently from Saturday afternoon through sunday evening?) is acceptable grounds to dispense with a Sunday obligation. The Catechism is there for interpretation by those trained to do so. It is not exhaustive for every possible situation, because that is not possible in the finite capacity of the document.

Sunday Mass is a big deal, no question. Not only do I not disagree with that – if I am sick or otherwise unable to attend on a weekend, it is distressing to me personally, as weekdays do not adequately replace. That said, if my job literally required me to be on High Alert non-stop from late Saturday afternnon through late Sunday evening, every single weekend, I would see how I could negotiate possibly some variance for that permanent availability, for religious reasons. People in other religions do so.