Hanging on by a thread

[ForGood]

Hello all,

Over the last few days there was a heated debate going on in a thread that was then shut down I believe b/c one whack-a-do was being really mean. The problem is - something he or she said really cut me to the core.

"Does confession make you un-pregnant?

Does confession cure an STD?

Does confession reassemble an aborted baby laying torn to pieces in a trash bin behind an abortion clinic or in the medical waste container?"

So basically - this person believes and wants to tell everyone else that even if you go to confession, receive absolution, believe in your forgiveness and the grace that you receive - it’s not good enough b/c you can’t “un-do” what you did to make you confess in the first place?

Great, just great. I really hate that I’m this weak that a complete stranger on the internet makes me question everything - how am I supposed to survive in the real world? When will I ever get to that place when I know what’s true and what isn’t and no one is going to make me feel differently? Sigh.

 

[Pacbox]

It sounds like that poster doesn’t understand what Reconciliation and forgiveness are. While it is true that you can’t undo sin, God doesn’t forgive and then lord it over you. He forgives and the sin is forgotten. We do have to live with the consequnces of our sin (temporal punishment) it doesn’t mean have to wallow or stay in that place we were before we were forgiven in Reconciliation. Jesus didn’t tell the woman caught in adultery that while she was forgiven he was going to remind her that she was an adulteress whenever he felt like it or that he was going to take his forgiveness back. He told her to go and sin no more. The sin was gone and she had a new start.

I understand about being effected by people on the Internet. You want to do the right thing and when you come across someone who seems to have it all together you think you should listen. Or they seem to know alot more than you do. All I can say is be careful.

 

[Benincasa]

ForGood:

It is absolutely true that Confession does not undo the evil we have done. If we do bad things, the effects of those bad things remain, even after we have repented.

However, if we have confessed, we are absolutely forgiven by God. The effects of the sin may remain, but that sin is forgiven. God is a loving and merciful God.

However, God is also just, and so we may have to be purified of our sin even after it is forgiven. This is why we do penance, this is why the Church offers us the chance to obtain indulgences and this is why we may have to go to Purgatory.

The key thing is not to fall into the trap of scruples. This classic pamphlet may help.
fatherdoyle.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/scruples-and-their-treatment.pdf

 

[EricFilmer]

So basically - this person believes and wants to tell everyone else that even if you go to confession, receive absolution, believe in your forgiveness and the grace that you receive - it’s not good enough b/c you can’t “un-do” what you did to make you confess in the first place?

Exactly what sort of background was this person coming from? For example, I can see this criticism being made by a Protestant as well as an atheist, but they would be approaching this from two different angles.

If a Protestant makes this charge then I would point out that when he says the Sinner’s Prayer (or whatever he did when going through the experience of being “born again”), God obviously did not turn back the clock and “un-do” all his sins either. So according to his line of thinking, when God forgives our sins (outside of the Sacrament of Confession) it is “not good enough” either. But how can that be possibly right?

If an atheist makes this charge then he would probably be appealing to a sense of justice. In other words, if a person is forgiven but his crime has not been completely undone, then the act of being forgiven was “not good enough.” But we live in a temporal world where it is impossible to turn back the clock, so no crime can be completely undone. Justice cannot demand the impossible, or else justice itself becomes unjust. Rather, justice seeks some sort of restitution, and the closer to total restitution one comes, the better. So justice is about restitution (and the protection of society) rather than undoing crime. If someone stole 50 dollars from me, and he returned the 50 dollars, then justice is satisfied. Justice does not (nor cannot) require the robber to turn back time and not commit the theft to begin with in order for justice to be satisfied.

Moreover, justice can be tempered with mercy, and one sees this all the time in our civil justice system. Forgiveness is an aspect of mercy, and forgiving someone does not impede restitution. In other words, if someone stole 50 dollars from me, I can forgive him and he can also return the 50 dollars. One action does not exclude the possibility of the other action.

 

[Jedimonk]

I am sorry that this person hurt you, but you must remember that the Enemy will use any way possible to keep you bound by shame. Confession is a beautiful Sacrament and if you confessed your sins with a contrite and repentant heart, then your sins are washed away. Yes, the effects of your actions may still be present here on Earth but they are not present eternally. God has forgiven you. Since you are right with God, who cares if you are right with some random internet troll.

What matters in matters of life and death is not what our friends, family or strangers say about us, it’s what God says about us. God says you are forgiven, white as snow. Be thankful for His mercy.

And remember, (As my Priest recently reminded me in Confession), “On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.””

Being a sinner simply means that you fit the qualifications to be a recipient of Christ’s mercy.

Take courage, Friend! Be of good cheer! Christ has died for your sins!!!

 

[Barbkw]

When a priest absolves you of your sins that you are repentant of, you’re absolved.

At the same time, Catholics also believe that our souls will need purgation, prior to seeing God. I’d expect, that it requires a deeper understanding of my sins. It may also require facing the residual and incremental damage my sin has caused others, society and the Body of Christ.

However, if you continually are in the process of conversion toward holiness in Christ, if you are repentant of your failures (past, present and future) - then don’t fear or worry about the final purgation process.

It will all be done for our soul’s benefit.

 

[DJK100]

Hi ForGood,

Of course confession doesn’t undo the act. It cannot make you unpregnant, unSTD’d or return a murdered aborted baby to you. That is not the point of confession. Confession is basically an apology to God for going against his will. Sin is any act that goes against Gods will. So when you confess you are asking for God’s forgiveness. It is also depends on if you are contrite or not. For example going to confession and flippantly saying “Uh, sorry I aborted my baby,” but not feeling any remorse is not really an apology – and god knows it. However, God wants you to be in communion with him, he wants you to feel his love and one way of doing this is forgiving you. While he will never condone the sinful acts if you truly are remorsefully, he will forgive you because he wants you to learn and grow from the experience, and your remorse shows this. This does not mean that you will not have to go through some sort of punishment for the acts you commited.

Think of it this way, when you were a kid, lets say you stole some money from you parents. You felt really bad and you confessed up to your parents what you had done. They see how upset you are and say. We forgive you for doing that to us, however we have to discpline you, to help you understand fully that there are consquences for what you do. So they punish you, a punishment done out of love because they are trying to reenforce correct behavior – to make you a better person. That is what confession is like. You cannot unsteal the money that you stole but you can learn and grow and recognize that is was wrong and that your parents love you and forgave you because, they are not holding a grudge over you for your act and have taken the time to reenforce a good behavior in you. A behavior that you are committed to not repeating again.

To me that is what confession is – a sincere apology to God for wronging him along with a renewed commitment to not offend him in that manner anymore. It doesn’t undo my acts which I will have to deal with but it does reenforce God’s love towards me. (sorry this is so long). Hope this helps.

 

[MtnDwellar]

So basically - this person believes and wants to tell everyone else that even if you go to confession, receive absolution, believe in your forgiveness and the grace that you receive - it’s not good enough b/c you can’t “un-do” what you did to make you confess in the first place?

Great, just great. I really hate that I’m this weak that a complete stranger on the internet makes me question everything - how am I supposed to survive in the real world? When will I ever get to that place when I know what’s true and what isn’t and no one is going to make me feel differently? Sigh.

I am not sure if you got the message correct. What I get is, better not to sin in the first place. Of course this is true. Forgiveness does not relinquish one from all consequences of his actions. Absolution does not remit atonement. Absolution does return a person to a state grace, allowing that person full communion with the Church. It’s a big deal. And it is good enough, if you consider being in a state of grace and receiving the eternal reward of heaven to be a good thing.

As far as being influenced by strangers on the net…
It can happen. Take all of what you read under consideration and retain the good stuff and forget the rest.

 

[LaFleurDeLis]

Don’t believe what they said or begin to question everything you know. Reconciliation is healing and forgiveness. It can’t undo what you did, but it will reconnect you with God and bring you back to His grace. We human, we sin. God knew that and that’s why Jesus was born. He died for our sins so that we could be forgiven. Remember he is the way, the truthm, and the light!

 

[styrgwillidar]

Consider why you would put so much importance on what some random person on the internet says. It’s good if they provoke you into analyzing your position and beliefs, contemplating them and deepening your own understanding. But it’s bad if you allow it to cut you, if you care too much about what others think, it can dissuade you from following God if you put too much stock in the opinions of others.

It might be helpful to contemplate the number of times Christ forgives sins in the gospels- I don’t recall Him making any issue of being unable to undo what has occurred. Consider the incident with the adultress. John 8, 4-11

… they said to Jesus, ‘Master, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery, and in the Law Moses has ordered us to stone women of this kind. What have you got to say?’ They asked him this as a test, looking for an accusation to use against him. But Jesus bent down and started writing on the ground with his finger. As they persisted with their question, he straightened up and said, ‘Let the one among you who is guiltless be the first to throw a stone at her.’ Then he bent down and continued writing on the ground. When they heard this they went away one by one, beginning with the eldest, until the last one had gone and Jesus was left alone with the woman, who remained in the middle.
Jesus again straightened up and said, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ ‘No one, sir,’ she replied. ‘Neither do I condemn you,’ said Jesus. ‘Go away, and from this moment sin no more.’

Christ does not instruct her to attempt to undo the damage to her marriage or her family.

Similarly, consider the parable of the prodigal son. His father accepts him back without expecting or asking for compensation for all the wrong the son has committed.

I have often thought that God’s commandments and Christ’s direction are to improve our lives in this world as well as prepare us for the next. Consider the many sins and how they damage our lives here and now- adultery, fornication, theft etc. It’s like a parent telling a child not to touch the stove, it’s not to spoil their fun, it’s to protect them from harm.

In each of the cases they cite- unwanted pregnancy, STD, abortion; the sinner will have to deal with the very real repercussions of their behavior. Had they heeded God’s commandments they would have avoided much pain and anguish which are simply consequences of their actions. This has nothing to do with forgiveness, which is God acknowledging our repentance and covering over our misdeeds, not holding those actions against us. But we are left with the bed we’ve made for ourselves.