Hans Kung sounds like an atheist to me

[SpiritMeadow]

It is our place to point out heresy when we see it, so that we might recognize and avoid it. It is not our place to judge the eternal consequences of the heretic.

Hope the distinction helps.

But you are judging him a heretic, and so far as I know the people who make that decision have not. Again, I think you overstep your place. But hate away if that is your desire.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Do you hear that Mssrs Calvin, Luther and Zwingli? Your Highness, King Henry VIII? And all you ‘reforming’ men and women of History?

Besides, Herr Kung is safe…the Vatican doesn’t label anyone anything other than separated brethren anymore.

It’s nicer, isn’t it spiritmeadow? I mean after all, all these people have some nice things to say, don’t they? Why shouldn’t we listen to them? Couldn’t you just see it, His Holiness Obama? Yeah, he’ll straighten out all these supposed Christians who think life is important. Maybe we can all throw a party for Herr Kung so his feelings won’t be hurt by redrosetea’s post. y’know, restore his self-confidence, let him know he’s special in the Lord’s Heart. And maybe we can all offer a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving for our special separated brother and his ideas, though different than ours, and then we can make things easier for him to spread his message, cause, y’know, we don’t want him to feel bad or anything. I myself, I’m gonna make him a Valentine’s day card with a special note of love for my brother to let him know that he’s ok. And anything he does out of love is ok. and I’m ok. and you’re ok. and we’re all ok!!!

ok?

So sorry you are filled with such venom.

 

[Shin]

But you are judging him a heretic, and so far as I know the people who make that decision have not. Again, I think you overstep your place. But hate away if that is your desire.

Some people hate truth and do not listen when they hear it. Then they tell others not to speak it, because they are afraid of it.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Err, Hans Kung is a heretic. He fits the definition of the word. If you’re uncomfortable with using that word, perhaps you should consider the many people he would mislead if he were labeled a ‘good Catholic’ instead. The sin of scandal is one of saying someone is a good Catholic, when he does things a good Catholic can’t do. It misleads by bad example. So you are required by Faith to call people out who are publicly scandalizing the faithful lest people be misled into sin.

All I can say, is that you will have some nice tiny little church by the time you have weeded out all the Catholics you don’t like. It’s your issue, I leave it to you.

 

[Shin]

All I can say, is that you will have some nice tiny little church by the time you have weeded out all the Catholics you don’t like. It’s your issue, I leave it to you.

No actually, what I said about sin there is basic moral law, not my own opinion. I was taught it by a good priest, but you can look up ‘scandal’ and what it means in some Catholic reference to verify it.

But what you have expressed is in fact your own opinion.

But we are not to follow after our own desires, we are to model ourselves after Christ.

It is my hope that someday you will consider the reasons I have stated it is necessary to call out heretics, because if you do not understand them the harm that comes from that lack of knowledge is something you will have to apologize for someday.

Those who tell you the truth love you most. They are not haters, they are lovers of Christ more than themselves.

 

[redrosetea]

You’re a good man Shin!

 

[maurin]

So sorry you are filled with such venom.

who, me? I thought that was in the same spirit of lovey doveyness you have been espousing.

y’mean, yer not ok? I’m not ok? we’re not all ok?

Have you taken that saying “love the sinner but hate the sin” to mean that you should love the heretic, but hate the one who points the heretic out?

 

[srp643]

See what our poor pope has to endure from heretics?..

News Briefs
Hans Küng says Obama would make a better Pope
February 09, 2009

The dissident theologian Hans Küng has suggested that Barack Obama would be a better pope than Benedict XVI. “The mood in the church is oppressive," Küng told a German outlet. “Benedict is unteachable in matters of birth control and abortion, arrogant and without transparency and restrictive of freedom and human rights." The theologian who once argued for greater democracy in the Church suggested that the Pope should follow Obama’s example and issue executive orders to bring about radical changes in Church doctrine and discipline, “using the power of his executive office to issue decrees.”

But, actually, people like this who express such hate and contempt for good and Truth are cause for rejoicing. Jesus himself said “blessed are you when people persecute you, insult you and hate you, and speak all manner of evil against you on My account. REJOICE AND BE GLAD, FOR GREAT WILL BE YOUR REWARD IN HEAVEN”. Seems to me the Pope should be throwing a party thanks to this heretic. Thanks Kungmeister!

 

[redrosetea]

who, me? I thought that was in the same spirit of lovey doveyness you have been espousing.

y’mean, yer not ok? I’m not ok? we’re not all ok?

Have you taken that saying “love the sinner but hate the sin” to mean that you should love the heretic, but hate the one who points the heretic out?

Some never met a lefty they didn’t love!

 

[James30]

I didn’t know Hans was still alive! He is like a public health nurse I knew in a Catholic Young Adult Club in San Francisco in 1960. She said, “We are going to change the church so that the conservatives will have to leave it.” I think she was thinking out loud because, a week or two later, when I asked her about her statement she said she didn’t say it.

 

[redrosetea]

Some of them thought the 60’s would never end

 

[DavidPalm]

Pope John Paul has already taken care of Hans Kung. In 1979 Kung was stripped of his right to teach as a Roman Catholic theologian. Still he continues to mumble about how he was “oppressed”, simply because he denied the Church Doctrine of papal infallibility, among others. :tsktsk:

That’s not taking care of him, according to the Church’s own Code of Canon Law. But enforcement wasn’t the Church’s strong suit in the last four decades:

Therefore the law is ignored
And justice is never upheld
For the wicked surround the righteous;
Therefore justice comes out perverted. (Hab 1:4).

When that comes to be enforced, as Archbishop Burke did when he was still Archbishop of St. Louis, then those like Kung will be well and truly taken care of, that is, formally put out of the Church until he repents of his heresy–an act of charity for all involved.

 

[CradleCath]

All I can say, is that you will have some nice tiny little church by the time you have weeded out all the Catholics you don’t like. It’s your issue, I leave it to you.

This is ridiculous. You are defending a man whose has, not only personnaly turned to heresy…but taught it. In the late 1960s Küng became the first major Roman Catholic theologian after the late 19th century Old Catholic Church schism to reject the doctrine of papal infallibility,

He is a promoter of a Global Church (Onechurch) which would hold teachings “acceptable to all people”. Now, let’s see…oh yes, abortion is acceptable to most Protestants, remarriage after divorce is “acceptable” to almost all religions, killing "non-believers"is acceptable to most Muslins, defaming the pope is acceptable to the SSPX & Kung himself…need I go on? For goodness sake, at least know something about the subject you defend.

 

[redrosetea]

Some people will defend anyone as long as it is not the pope…sad

 

[Nepenthe]

Kung doesn’t sound even remotely like an atheist, since he clearly believes in a god! He does, however, sound like someone who disagrees, and perhaps dislikes, Benedict (Mr. Personality he isn’t, at times, let’s face it, though he’s taking that papal duty far more seriously now that he holds the Office) of certain weighty matters, possibly merely personally, possibly even some of ex cathedra gravity.

And maybe some of you think it is your duty to point out heresy when you see it, regardless of your scholarly understanding of such matters. but it is most emphatically NOT your place to enforce the penaties of possible heresy, unless you happen to be an Inquisitor or a perhaps a member of the Civil Authories responsible for carrying out such penalties.

And oh my yes - no ‘riff-raff’ allowed in this faith, oh my stars and garters no. Keep those filthy, uncathechized heathens away from our nice tidy communities, since they are clearly not our
Brothers and Sisters in Christ. And why would they want to be, with a welcome mat in front of the ‘hospital for sinners’ like that?

Crimony.

 

[redrosetea]

He clearly doesn’t believe in the God of Abraham and Jesus of Nazareth, and figures the 10 commandments are subject to negotiation

He may believe in a god but not the God, who forbids the very things he wants to allow…he is a pagan

 

[Nepenthe]

Look up ‘pagan’. Just a thought - it might have further benefit for your precision of language usage.

 

[redrosetea]

heathen: a person who does not acknowledge your god​

a person who follows a polytheistic or pre-Christian religion (not a Christian or Muslim or Jew)​

hedonist: someone motivated by desires for sensual pleasures​

heathen: not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and Islam​

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Sounds just like Kung to me

 

[Nepenthe]

Not to me. Although you do not sound especially charitable or well-informed, but pretty presumptuous.

Go ahead and do your thing though, I suppose. I feel fortunate daily that neither you nor people like you have any authority over me.

 

[redrosetea]

The only person with Authority is God and Kung rejects His teachings as defined by scripture

Christianity isn’t a democracy we all don’t get to pick and chose what we will obey…God tells us what we must obey

If it makes you feel better to lob insults at me knock yourself out…