Happiness, Holiness, and LDS Women

[Bporte00]

I have a group of friends I fondly refer to as my due date group. We met via a parenting site when we were first found out we were expecting around September of 09, and still speak to one another on a daily bases. Aside from the fact that we are all somewhere near our 20’s the group is pretty diverse. Usually we refrain from speaking about things revolving around religion because we all understand that everyone, even those who claim to believe nothing, feel strongly about their views and we wouldn’t want to cause strife.

Well, in this group of 30 women or so we have one women who is LDS. Honestly, I know nothing about the religion other than some man founded it after claiming to have spoken to God (is that even right?). She has never come out and tried to convert anyone or actually made a spectacle of her religion at all, but as I journey to faith making my way Home I began noticing things about her that I had only ever thought of in passing.

In the nearly two years we’ve been friends I have never seen her curse, she has never complained about the in and outs of married life and a kids, her home is perfect, she dresses cute but super modestly, never drinks/smokes/ect., even when her pilot husband isn’t there she gets all three of her kids (all under 5) to church every Sunday, does a daily Bible study (?), and she still has time to comfort anyone who is having problems. Did I mention that she makes time to work out every day and has a rocking body

I was so sure this women just some freak of nature, but as I went through her friends and looked more into her daily life I realized that nearly every women she spoke to was just as perfect and I can’t figure out why! What do these women have, what do they know( or not know) that makes them so happy? I mentioned in passing to her I felt alone in my faith and she asked me why I hadn’t gone to Church since that is the best way to make friends/.

It’s petty, but it makes me so jealous. We’ve been attending Mass regularly for months now and I have yet to have one women come to me and try to befriend me, let alone seen one person who so consistently Christ-like. I didn’t think anyone could be this happy without Christ in their life.

I really just want someone to tell me about this religion and why despite all their happiness and apparent morality that they fall short of being the One True Church.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I know a lot of Mormons, because I was raised in the Mormon church. My entire family, men, women, children are Mormon. I am the only Christian, Catholic or otherwise.

Mormons work diligently, and faithfully, at holding fast to rules. Adults are interviewed annually by an ecclesiastical leader, who asks them very specific questions about their behavior and beliefs. So there is an enforcement behind the behavior. There is also a social enforcement, in that, Mormon communities are central to Mormons, and dressing differently or acting differently is noticed, and commented on. I found that stifling, more like, a cage.

I left Mormonism for atheism, and in my atheism, I made friends with people who were kind, loving and parents and who were very happy. These are virtues that can be sought after by anyone, regardless of their religious beliefs, or lack thereof.

What I found in Catholicism, is, a faith that is not reduced to moralism or emotionalism. I found this lacking in both Mormonism and atheism. I was content as an atheist, which, is a vice. What I found in our Catholic faith is that we are called first to love God. From this, everything else flows, and in this, I am very happy, even when I am lonely, I have joy.

All feel lonely at one time or another, even Mormons. Looking back, my loneliness as a Mormon was based on not knowing God. I longed for something, but I didn’t figure out what it was until God gave me this gift of Faith. I would rather stay with Him, than go anywhere else.

All have a longing for the Infinite, which can only be filled by the Infinite, Jesus Christ. God has charity on our poverty, and has given us His Son. In Him is where true peace is found.

 

[TimothyH]

Are you sure that she is really that happy and perfect? It really sounds like you are describing a Stepford Wife or one of the wives in the Tom Cruise movie The Firm. Do you really know what is in the depths of her heart when she lies awake at night?

I truly hope your friend’s interior life, especially as pertains to God, is as perfect as her exterior life. From what you describe, she sounds blessed but I would not judge by outside appearances. Remember that the LDS and Jehovah’s Witnesses have very strict rules about outward appearances.

If you long for a woman to befriend you, walk up to one and say hello. I don’t mean to lecture and really mean this in a spirit of charity but what effort have you made? When is the last time you walked up to someone yourself and said hello? Have you prayed for God to put good Catholic women into your life?

Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors. That same Jesus established a Church as a hospital for those same sinners. That Church had the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. The LDS denies the divinity of Christ. That is why then cannot be the one true Church. The true hospital for sinners, with the medicine of the Eucharist, established by Christ himself still exists. So if you want Catholic friends in your life, be prepared for imperfect people. If you want to go to a Church where perfect people go, be prepared to dress perfectly, to have the perfect job and the perfect BMW in the parking lot, and above all, to never reveal any of your problems to anyone.

And my friend’s wife gets her five home schooled kids to Mass every day. She has a rocking body too, not that I’ve ever noticed.

-Tim-

 

[RebeccaJ]

Are you sure that she is really that happy and perfect? It really sounds like you are describing a Stepford Wife or one of the wives in the Tom Cruise movie The Firm. Do you really know what is in the depths of her heart when she lies awake at night?

I truly hope your friend’s interior life, especially as pertains to God, is as perfect as her exterior life. From what you describe, she sounds blessed but I would not judge by outside appearances. Remember that the LDS and Jehovah’s Witnesses have very strict rules about outward appearances.

If you long for a woman to befriend you, walk up to one and say hello. I don’t mean to lecture and really mean this in a spirit of charity but what effort have you made? When is the last time you walked up to someone yourself and said hello? Have you prayed for God to put good Catholic women into your life?

Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors. That same Jesus established a Church as a hospital for those same sinners. That Church had the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. The LDS denies the divinity of Christ. That is why then cannot be the one true Church. The true hospital for sinners, with the medicine of the Eucharist, established by Christ himself still exists. So if you want Catholic friends in your life, be prepared for imperfect people. If you want to go to a Church where perfect people go, be prepared to dress perfectly, to have the perfect job and the perfect BMW in the parking lot, and above all, to never reveal any of your problems to anyone.

And my friend’s wife gets her five home schooled kids to Mass every day. She has a rocking body too, not that I’ve ever noticed.

-Tim-

Yes, Utah has the highest use of prescription anti-depressants in the nation. Most of my Mormon female relatives are on anti-depressants. The outward appearance is very important in Mormonism. None of my relatives who suffer from depression indicate in any way on the outside. They are dressing modestly, acting happy, working out, going to work, having children, etc.

If a person is not happy in Mormonism, the belief is, it is because there is something lacking in their life that has caused the Holy Spirit to leave them. So, there is a lot of work that is prescribed for achieving happiness. When this happiness is not achieved, it is difficult to reach out to anyone in the Mormon community and express this, as judgement will ensue, and advice given on what needs to be done to be in God’s favor.

It is an endless cycle.

Mormons are taught that loud laughter is of Satan, so, it isn’t found among devout LDS. Growing up in an LDS family, it was something that I didn’t notice, but I notice it now, when I am around my family. They smile and joke around, but no one ever busts out in a big belly laugh. An odd thing to notice and comment on, but it is one of the joys I have in Catholicism: people laugh really loud and no one is thinking it is as a sin.



Happiness in Mormonism is serious business. (no joke)

 

[rick43235]

Well, in this group of 30 women or so we have one women who is LDS. Honestly, I know nothing about the religion other than some man founded it after claiming to have spoken to God (is that even right?).

ALL religions make extraordinary claims. Imagine that you had just arrived here from Mars, had never heard of Catholicism, and someone outlined for you the beliefs and teachings of the Church. I bet it would leave you scratching your head in wonder.

*I was so sure this women just some freak of nature, but as I went through her friends and looked more into her daily life I realized that nearly every women she spoke to was just as perfect and I can’t figure out why! What do these women have, what do they know( or not know) that makes them so happy? I mentioned in passing to her I felt alone in my faith and she asked me why I hadn’t gone to Church since that is the best way to make friends/.

It’s petty, but it makes me so jealous. We’ve been attending Mass regularly for months now and I have yet to have one women come to me and try to befriend me, let alone seen one person who so consistently Christ-like. I didn’t think anyone could be this happy without Christ in their life.*

Who says she is “without Christ in her life?” Many non-Catholics, including Mormons, profess a belief in Christ.

I really just want someone to tell me about this religion and why despite all their happiness and apparent morality that they fall short of being the One True Church.

You know…they believe they ARE the one true church - just like you believe YOUR church is. Personally, I’m not betting on either one of you.

I recently had an opportunity to spend a few hours with a couple of LDS missionaries. Even as a nonbeliever, I had to admire their zeal and their commitment to their beliefs. And yes, they seemed to be very content with their lives. I got the impression that the Mormons have a very strong sense of community, and they go out of their way to help a fellow church member who is in need. At the parish were I attend mass with my wife, although the folks there are very nice, decent people, the feeling of community is nothing like I sensed with these Mormons. Nobody goes out of their way for anyone else. They attend mass every week, but they’re out the door and on their way before the last verse of the closing hymn fades away. (Except for a small, dedicated group of donut eaters who race to the parish hall as the last notes of the closing hymn fade away.) With very few exceptions, nobody sees anyone else until the next Sunday. Honestly, I can see why many people find the Mormon church appealing. Heck…I was tempted to join up.

 

[campeador]

Mormons are taught that loud laughter is of Satan, so, it isn’t found among devout LDS. Growing up in an LDS family, it was something that I didn’t notice, but I notice it now, when I am around my family. They smile and joke around, but no one ever busts out in a big belly laugh. An odd thing to notice and comment on, but it is one of the joys I have in Catholicism: people laugh really loud and no one is thinking it is as a sin.



Happiness in Mormonism is serious business. (no joke)

This is something I didn’t know. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bporte00]

Are you sure that she is really that happy and perfect? It really sounds like you are describing a Stepford Wife or one of the wives in the Tom Cruise movie The Firm. Do you really know what is in the depths of her heart when she lies awake at night?

I truly hope your friend’s interior life, especially as pertains to God, is as perfect as her exterior life. From what you describe, she sounds blessed but I would not judge by outside appearances. Remember that the LDS and Jehovah’s Witnesses have very strict rules about outward appearances.

If you long for a woman to befriend you, walk up to one and say hello. I don’t mean to lecture and really mean this in a spirit of charity but what effort have you made? When is the last time you walked up to someone yourself and said hello? Have you prayed for God to put good Catholic women into your life?

Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors. That same Jesus established a Church as a hospital for those same sinners. That Church had the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. The LDS denies the divinity of Christ. That is why then cannot be the one true Church. The true hospital for sinners, with the medicine of the Eucharist, established by Christ himself still exists. So if you want Catholic friends in your life, be prepared for imperfect people. If you want to go to a Church where perfect people go, be prepared to dress perfectly, to have the perfect job and the perfect BMW in the parking lot, and above all, to never reveal any of your problems to anyone.

And my friend’s wife gets her five home schooled kids to Mass every day. She has a rocking body too, not that I’ve ever noticed.

-Tim-

I do believe that she is that happy I mean. I know that she could have other feelings in her heart. I guess I’m just envious of the community of people she has who are so supporting (or so it seems to me) and encouraging on her religious path.

As far as trying to befriend people, I’ve tried. More than attending extracurricular things in the Parish and being sociable I’ve even gone so far as join the home school moms group for the region (which is very small) despite only having an infant in hopes of meeting people who share and encourage the Faith.

I fully embrace that we are all imperfect humans and attempting to be perfect is harmful, I guess I just need to pray harder.

 

[Bporte00]

Yes, Utah has the highest use of prescription anti-depressants in the nation. Most of my Mormon female relatives are on anti-depressants. The outward appearance is very important in Mormonism. None of my relatives who suffer from depression indicate in any way on the outside. They are dressing modestly, acting happy, working out, going to work, having children, etc.

If a person is not happy in Mormonism, the belief is, it is because there is something lacking in their life that has caused the Holy Spirit to leave them. So, there is a lot of work that is prescribed for achieving happiness. When this happiness is not achieved, it is difficult to reach out to anyone in the Mormon community and express this, as judgement will ensue, and advice given on what needs to be done to be in God’s favor.

It is an endless cycle.

Mormons are taught that loud laughter is of Satan, so, it isn’t found among devout LDS. Growing up in an LDS family, it was something that I didn’t notice, but I notice it now, when I am around my family. They smile and joke around, but no one ever busts out in a big belly laugh. An odd thing to notice and comment on, but it is one of the joys I have in Catholicism: people laugh really loud and no one is thinking it is as a sin.



Happiness in Mormonism is serious business. (no joke)

I had no idea that it was so bleak for many Mormons That is very saddening, and I pray that my friend isn’t suffering like that secretly.

The part about the laughing kind of sheds a few things in some new light for me. When this friend went to NYC with her husband and met with a few non-mormon friends she shared a private video with us of them being silly on the Subway. I thought it was private because her friends were tipsy, but now I wonder if she was being so outwardly giggly. ?

 

[SteveVH]

People that appear too “perfect” make me nervous. No one enjoys a life free from struggles and problems. Catholics are usually not too worried about showing their warts, or at least admitting that that have them. Just ask anyone in the confession line.

I told a Mormon poster on this forum that I go to confession monthly and, if need be, even more often. He laughed at me as he couldn’t imagine anyone having to confess his sins that often. I told him that I know of no one who is as pure as he was making himself out to be. I have a feeling that this is the case with your friend.

 

[Bluegoat]

If you ever go to a website for women that have left Mormonism, you’ll see how relieved they all are not to have to be perfect any more, using cloth diapers, cooking whole foods frm scratch, spotless home, etc.

Your friend might be really happy - some people really are happy people. But there is a lot of pressure in Mormonism, moreso because if you leave, you lose your whole family and community.

I understand feeling alone in your faith though, and I think it is partly the fault of our religious communities ignoring their duties in this.

 

[Annie_B]

Yeah everybody; you better beware of someone who seems truly happy. There has got to be a catch. Nobody is happy these days. If they seem happy they must be on drugs or so mind controlled that they are under the influence of someone or some group. Watch out for happy people - it might be contagious

Ok - all sarcasm aside there are truly happy Mormons and truly happy Catholics. There are also very miserable mormons and very miserable Catholics. It is as simple as that.

Annie

 

[Annie_B]

“…But there is a lot of pressure in Mormonism, moreso because if you leave, you lose your whole family and community.”
Maybe in some cases but this is simply not true in all cases. I know from experience.
Annie

 

[TheExorcist]

I do believe that she is that happy I mean. I know that she could have other feelings in her heart. I guess I’m just envious of the community of people she has who are so supporting (or so it seems to me) and encouraging on her religious path.

As far as trying to befriend people, I’ve tried. More than attending extracurricular things in the Parish and being sociable I’ve even gone so far as join the home school moms group for the region (which is very small) despite only having an infant in hopes of meeting people who share and encourage the Faith.

I fully embrace that we are all imperfect humans and attempting to be perfect is harmful, I guess I just need to pray harder.

You have to understand how extraordinarily complex Mormon society is. Living as a Mormon in UT is very different from living as a Mormon in the South which is very different from living as a Mormon in the Northwest. There is a a lot of interplay of different factors and its very hard to describe those in these few short posts. Mormon doctrine aside, it IS very much a culture and a strange and different one at that. I wouldn’t compare yourself to her so much. If you’re happy and feel good about your life that is what matters. If you have an active and fulfilling faith life that’s even better!

Regards,

Charles

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Mormon women are entirely dependent on their husbands to achieve becoming a goddess in the celestial heaven. Their husbands have the power to take them with them – or not – to the celestial heaven where they, as “exalted” males, will become gods and rule over their own kingdom. She has to be “sealed” to him in a temple ceremony and obey all the Mormon rules including tithing to make this happen.

Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, and are children of the same Heavenly Father (who is an “exalted” man) and one of his many goddess wives. The Jesus they believe in is not the Jesus of Christianity.

Please consider the teachings of Mormonism before you conclude that your friend is “Christlike.” Buy an easy-to-read manual of Mormon teaching like Gospel Parallels, published by the LDS in Utah. Maybe your friend would loan it to you, if she has it. And read the link below.

Mormons deny it now, but at one time taught that Jesus is the child of God the Father (who is a man) by him coming down from heaven and having intercourse with the Virgin Mary. It goes downhill from there.

exmormon.org/stories.htm

Peace, Jim Dandy

 

[Bporte00]

Mormon women are entirely dependent on their husbands to achieve becoming a goddess in the celestial heaven. Their husbands have the power to take them with them – or not – to the celestial heaven where they, as “exalted” males, will become gods and rule over their own kingdom. She has to be “sealed” to him in a temple ceremony and obey all the Mormon rules including tithing to make this happen.

Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, and are children of the same Heavenly Father (who is an “exalted” man) and one of his many goddess wives. The Jesus they believe in is not the Jesus of Christianity.

Please consider the teachings of Mormonism before you conclude that your friend is “Christlike.” Buy an easy-to-read manual of Mormon teaching like Gospel Parallels, published by the LDS in Utah. Maybe your friend would loan it to you, if she has it. And read the link below.

Mormons deny it now, but at one time taught that Jesus is the child of God the Father (who is a man) by him coming down from heaven and having intercourse with the Virgin Mary. It goes downhill from there.

exmormon.org/stories.htm

Peace, Jim Dandy

 

[ParkerD]

I had no idea that it was so bleak for many Mormons That is very saddening, and I pray that my friend isn’t suffering like that secretly.

The part about the laughing kind of sheds a few things in some new light for me. When this friend went to NYC with her husband and met with a few non-mormon friends she shared a private video with us of them being silly on the Subway. I thought it was private because her friends were tipsy, but now I wonder if she was being so outwardly giggly. ?

Bporte,

Medical doctors in Utah over-prescribe medications that are anti-depressants, but fortunately there are some women who have figured out that there are healthier ways through natural means to deal with hormone imbalances and body cycles that doctors are quick to call “depression” and readily prescribe an anti-depressant. Some women treat their doctor as a “know everything” kind of person, but the doctors have an agenda that is aided by what they were taught in medical school that ridicules natural vitamin supplements and other natural approaches to health, and by the drug companies who profit from someone becoming dependent on anti-depressants. More women in Utah are likely to go to the doctor than women in other states, which leads to the statistic that was noted since the doctors are considered to “know everything” for health.

Giggling is fine, and laughing is fine and is healthy for the body also. People who laugh will probably live longer statistically than people who don’t approach life that way. The LDS apostles are known to enjoy laughing as a part of their family life, and one can find this written about in their biographies.

They also know how to work, and how to be unselfish rather than having a self-centered approach to life that could lead to seeking an emotional “high” day after day rather than having a heartfelt high through service to others and caring about others more than about self, that is an inner happiness and joy which are gifts of the Spirit.

You have been told many untrue things about the beliefs of Mormons ( which seems to have prompted your use of the “aghast” picture as your response–I would be aghast, too, but I know better than those untruths and deliberate misleading statements) which untruths the internet is full of, and rather than have those untruths become a way of looking at her judgmentally, it would seem better to just assume she has different beliefs than you do and that she is entitled to her beliefs, and just enjoy being mutual young mother friends with religion not being something you misjudge each other about.

You could look at the thread that explores LDS beliefs about Jesus Christ if you want to find a more balanced explanation about their beliefs in more depth, but otherwise it just makes more sense to leave it alone both ways and just enjoy the friendship as is.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Please consider the teachings of Mormonism before you conclude that your friend is “Christlike.” Buy an easy-to-read manual of Mormon teaching like Gospel Parallels, published by the LDS in Utah. Maybe your friend would loan it to you, if she has it. And read the link below.

The Gospel Principles manual can be found on-line here if you’d like to read it.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Bporte,

Medical doctors in Utah over-prescribe medications that are anti-depressants, but fortunately there are some women who have figured out that there are healthier ways through natural means to deal with hormone imbalances and body cycles that doctors are quick to call “depression” and readily prescribe an anti-depressant. Some women treat their doctor as a “know everything” kind of person, but the doctors have an agenda that is aided by what they were taught in medical school that ridicules natural vitamin supplements and other natural approaches to health, and by the drug companies who profit from someone becoming dependent on anti-depressants. More women in Utah are likely to go to the doctor than women in other states, which leads to the statistic that was noted since the doctors are considered to “know everything” for health.

Well that’s a rather calumnious paragraph.

 

[Marie5890]

Having been both LDS and Catholic I can honestly say that happiness and joy isnt held exclusively by any religion.

I think there is a false way of thinking that if you dont have the “fulness” of truth, you cant’ authentically be happy.

That is not true. I knew many truly happy Mormons. I was one of them. I also knew many unhappy Mormons.

And today I can say the same for the Catholics I know. Active, practising Catholics. Some are happy, some are not.

Many times it comes down to personal temperment and character and less to do with one’s religious affliation.

There is wisdom in being careful not to stereotype people based on some catagory. JMO

 

[lax16]

Yes, Utah has the highest use of prescription anti-depressants in the nation. Most of my Mormon female relatives are on anti-depressants. The outward appearance is very important in Mormonism. None of my relatives who suffer from depression indicate in any way on the outside. They are dressing modestly, acting happy, working out, going to work, having children, etc.

If a person is not happy in Mormonism, the belief is, it is because there is something lacking in their life that has caused the Holy Spirit to leave them. So, there is a lot of work that is prescribed for achieving happiness. When this happiness is not achieved, it is difficult to reach out to anyone in the Mormon community and express this, as judgement will ensue, and advice given on what needs to be done to be in God’s favor.

It is an endless cycle.

Mormons are taught that loud laughter is of Satan, so, it isn’t found among devout LDS. Growing up in an LDS family, it was something that I didn’t notice, but I notice it now, when I am around my family. They smile and joke around, but no one ever busts out in a big belly laugh. An odd thing to notice and comment on, but it is one of the joys I have in Catholicism: people laugh really loud and no one is thinking it is as a sin.



Happiness in Mormonism is serious business. (no joke)

Oh my heck - this is why my friends have been told to “be quiet” when cheering at sporting events??!! (They live in Utah now but come from out of state)

The one thing that strikes me the most living here in Utah…the perfectly coiffed women in fancy SUVS vs the barely-got-it-together women in dented minivans. It is so obvious…

Recently I was pulling into the parking lot at Mancuso’s (Catholic store) and a very dented, barely operating, car pulled up. The people inside were very humble and did not have the figures or clothing to make them “attractive”… I turned to my son and said "The Catholic Church really is for everyone isn’t it - especially those who are poor and humble.
We are the Church for all - and sometimes it isn’t so perfect… "

Jesus was right. Our Church is for everyone. All shapes and sizes. Weeds in the yard and dust on the coffee table…we are all part of God’s family.