Happiness &/v. Joy

[Qoeleth]

I’ve noticed on a couple of threads (including one going at the moment), a distinction being made between happiness and joy. I suppose the reason for this is to make sense of saying things like, “even though I am not happy, I am still filled with joy,”, or “even though I do not have joy, I am still happy.”

I have some difficulties with such statements, because they seems to play on the possibility of treating two synonyms as distinct things, to create a quasi-meaning- like saying “even though I am scared, I am not afraid.”

Is there really a meaningful difference between happiness and joy?

 

[SilverLight]

I’ve noticed on a couple of threads (including one going at the moment), a distinction being made between happiness and joy. I suppose the reason for this is to make sense of saying things like, “even though I am not happy, I am still filled with joy,”, or “even though I do not have joy, I am still happy.”

I have some difficulties with such statements, because they seems to play on the possibility of treating two synonyms as distinct things, to create a quasi-meaning- like saying “even though I am scared, I am not afraid.”

Is there really a meaningful difference between happiness and joy?

hmmm well both are a emotion in a sence

 

[Robertanthony]

Happiness is often seen as fleeting, superficial, dependent on circumstances, the other is seen as running deeper and can still exist when your whole world is falling apart. That’s at least my understanding of the distinction between the two. I don’t have first-hand experience of that , however.

 

[jochoa]

I’ve noticed on a couple of threads (including one going at the moment), a distinction being made between happiness and joy. I suppose the reason for this is to make sense of saying things like, “even though I am not happy, I am still filled with joy,”, or “even though I do not have joy, I am still happy.”

I have some difficulties with such statements, because they seems to play on the possibility of treating two synonyms as distinct things, to create a quasi-meaning- like saying “even though I am scared, I am not afraid.”

Is there really a meaningful difference between happiness and joy?

Interesting post! Perhaps the distinction is found in the quality of selflessness/selfishness of the performed action.
Righteous selflessness yields perfect happiness.
Righteous selfishness yields limitless joy.

A personal example: I can experience perfect happiness cooking and washing dishes because I know these serve a great cause. I can experience limitless joy making music for Jesus Christ with an ensemble because this is one of my most selfish desires.

Thanks for the excellent food for thought!

Thoughts?

 

[Qoeleth]

Happiness is often seen as fleeting, superficial, dependent on circumstances, the other is seen as running deeper and can still exist when your whole world is falling apart. That’s at least my understanding of the distinction between the two. I don’t have first-hand experience of that , however.

That seems to match the etymology. “Happy” coming from “hap” (as in “hap-pening”, per-hap-s")- something which befalls or occurs according to chance. I suppose joy (gaudium, gaudere), is more something the agent does, thant something that is done to the agent.

So, refering to the etymology- maybe the following distinction is valid:
Happiness- good things hap-pening to you.
Joy- The response of the subject.

So, I suppose, theoretically, you could have joy (i.e. make the response of rejoicing) while being unhappy (i.e. having unlucky stuff happen to you).

But then, if one’s response is joy, can the stuff which happens to generate this response still be described as unhappy?

Disregarding the etymology, is it possible someone might understand the words in reverse?- i.e. “joy is fleeting and dependent on circumstances, but happiness is something which runs deeper and is more fundamental.”

 

[Robertanthony]

That seems to match the etymology. “Happy” coming from “hap” (as in “hap-pening”, per-hap-s")- something which befalls or occurs according to chance. I suppose joy (gaudium, gaudere), is more something the agent does, thant something that is done to the agent.

So, refering to the etymology- maybe the following distinction is valid:
Happiness- good things hap-pening to you.
Joy- The response of the subject.

So, I suppose, theoretically, you could have joy (i.e. make the response of rejoicing) while being unhappy (i.e. having unlucky stuff happen to you).

But then, if one’s response is joy, can the stuff which happens to generate this response still be described as unhappy?

Disregarding the etymology, is it possible someone might understand the words in reverse?- i.e. "joy is fleeting and dependent on circumstances, but happiness is something which runs deeper and is more fundamental."

I should have added “In religious circles” in my post. Personally, I’ll say for instance, “That was a time/moment of great joy” Happiness I see more as a permanent state. So it’s happiness punctuated by moments of joy. In religious circles, “joy” is seen as a state of being, it’s not a reaction to events, it’s there in spite of events, favourable or not. Again, it’s hard for me to dig any deeper as I never experienced deep, lasting joy in the face of great adversity.