Happy 40th Birthday Novus Ordo

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Ockham

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"It is 40 years ago today since the New Mass of Paul VI was introduced into our parishes, writes Margery Popinstar, editor of The Capsule. We knew at the time that this liturgy was as close to perfection as humanly possible, but little did we guess what an efflorescence of art, architecture, music and worship lay ahead!

There were fears at first that the vernacular service would damage the solemnity of the Mass. How silly! Far from leading to liturgical abuses, the New Mass nurtured a koinonia that revived Catholic culture and packed our reordered churches to the rafters.

So dramatic was the growth in family Mass observance, indeed, that a new school of Catholic architecture arose to provide places of worship for these new congregations. Throughout the Western world, churches sprang up that combined Christian heritage with the thrilling simplicity of the modern school, creating a sense of the numinous that has proved as irresistible to secular visitors as to the faithful.

…]"

Damian Thompson

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From the US election and Biden's presidency, to gun control and abortion rights; stay up-to-date with the latest lines and comment with The Telegraph.
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blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100018329/happy-40th-birthday-novus-ordo/
 
Seriously?

In my lifetime?
Does that mean that in my first few yrs of life, my parents took me to a TLM?
Does that mean that I was “raised” on TLM?
Was the altar turned around at that time too?

If my parents were married in the mid-60s, would they have had a TLM wedding?

I’m interested to know.
Thanks.
 
graceandglory said:
Seriously?

In my lifetime?
Does that mean that in my first few yrs of life, my parents took me to a TLM?
Does that mean that I was “raised” on TLM?
Was the altar turned around at that time too?

If my parents were married in the mid-60s, would they have had a TLM wedding?

I’m interested to know.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Depends where you were. There was a “Transitional” Missal released in 1965 which was essentially the EF, but celebrated almost entirely in the Vernacular. IIRC, this was not used everywhere, but then it wasn’t during my lifetime, so others will have to verify that.
 
Ockham said:
I would be happy if both forms were offered equally.
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I agree. Growing up post Vatican II I knew the Mass in OF. My Grandfather grew up pre Vatican II and would tell me wonderful stories of the TLM and him serving mass. I have always had interest in it. I haven’t been to one, but seen them on TV. It is a shame that we don’t give as much reverence to the EF. There isn’t anything wrong with the OF. I would just like to see Catholics experience both the OF and EF. Too many people get the wrong idea about the OF, but if the Church would offer them equally I really think it would benefit those especially who are discerning for vocations priestly and secular.
 
Ockham said:
"It is 40 years ago today since the New Mass of Paul VI was introduced into our parishes, writes Margery Popinstar, editor of The Capsule. We knew at the time that this liturgy was as close to perfection as humanly possible, but little did we guess what an efflorescence of art, architecture, music and worship lay ahead!

There were fears at first that the vernacular service would damage the solemnity of the Mass. How silly! Far from leading to liturgical abuses, the New Mass nurtured a koinonia that revived Catholic culture and packed our reordered churches to the rafters.

So dramatic was the growth in family Mass observance, indeed, that a new school of Catholic architecture arose to provide places of worship for these new congregations. Throughout the Western world, churches sprang up that combined Christian heritage with the thrilling simplicity of the modern school, creating a sense of the numinous that has proved as irresistible to secular visitors as to the faithful.

…]"

Damian Thompson
Telegraph.co.uk
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100018329/happy-40th-birthday-novus-ordo/
Click to expand...
Is this a joke?
 
marci said:
Is this a joke?
Click to expand...
no this just marked a new beginning in the Church. A good change in some ways and a bad change in some ways. We should always give reverence to the TLM as well as accept the NO. Likewise if in the future another form of mass would come about that we should give reverence to the TLM and NO and accept the form of mass.
 
Ockham said:
I would be happy if both forms were offered equally.
Click to expand...
What does equal mean? From what I have observed, for the most part it happens in proportion to demand and expressed interest.

If 50% of Catholics asked for a TLM, or expressed the slightest interest in attending one either at all or as more than a one-off or occasional event, then it would happen 50% of the time (which is one meaning of ‘equally’). If more than one or two people in EVERY parish asked for one, it would happen at at least one Sabbath mass in every parish. Until demand is expressed, there’s no point scheduling TLMs that no or few people will attend.

And impossible in those places where people attend but don’t SUPPORT their TLM community, for example by donating the substantial time, talent or treasure required to sustain such a thing on a regular basis 🤷

It’s up to you TLM devotees to make yourselves heard if you want it to happen - and to convince those who haven’t yet seen the light. 🤷
 
🍰

This for some reason makes me think of the Mass of the Lord’s Supper. Or as I heard it called the Mass of the Mass.
 
Ockham said:
"It is 40 years ago today since the New Mass of Paul VI was introduced into our parishes, [Bw]rites Margery Popinstar, editor of The Capsule.
Click to expand...
We knew at the time that this liturgy was as close to perfection as humanly possible, but little did we guess what an efflorescence of art, architecture, music and worship lay ahead! …]"
snip<
Damian Thompson
Telegraph.co.uk
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100018329/happy-40th-birthday-novus-ordo/
Click to expand...
marci said:
Is this a joke?
Click to expand...
Undoubtedly.

It is a spoof of the Tablet’s editor Catherine ‘Ma’ Pepinster, one of Damian’s favorite targets.
 
tmancath said:
no this just marked a new beginning in the Church. A good change in some ways and a bad change in some ways. We should always give reverence to the TLM as well as accept the NO. Likewise if in the future another form of mass would come about that we should give reverence to the TLM and NO and accept the form of mass.
Click to expand...
Ok. But does anyone believe that any of these effects actually happened?

but little did we guess what an efflorescence of art, architecture, music and worship lay ahead!

I think this statement is too funny

There were fears at first that the vernacular service would damage the solemnity of the Mass. How silly! Far from leading to liturgical abuses, the New Mass nurtured a koinonia that revived Catholic culture and packed our reordered churches to the rafters.

Isn’t weekly mass attendance at an all time low? Didn’t we loose tens of thousands of religious in the decade after the mass? Ever heard of clown masses?

So dramatic was the growth in family Mass observance, indeed, that a new school of Catholic architecture arose to provide places of worship for these new congregations. Throughout the Western world, churches sprang up that combined Christian heritage with the thrilling simplicity of the modern school, creating a sense of the numinous that has proved as irresistible to secular visitors as to the faithful.

Now that’s just plain silly.
 
marci said:
Ok. But does anyone believe that any of these effects actually happened?

but little did we guess what an efflorescence of art, architecture, music and worship lay ahead!

I think this statement is too funny

There were fears at first that the vernacular service would damage the solemnity of the Mass. How silly! Far from leading to liturgical abuses, the New Mass nurtured a koinonia that revived Catholic culture and packed our reordered churches to the rafters.

Isn’t weekly mass attendance at an all time low? Didn’t we loose tens of thousands of religious in the decade after the mass? Ever heard of clown masses?

So dramatic was the growth in family Mass observance, indeed, that a new school of Catholic architecture arose to provide places of worship for these new congregations. Throughout the Western world, churches sprang up that combined Christian heritage with the thrilling simplicity of the modern school, creating a sense of the numinous that has proved as irresistible to secular visitors as to the faithful.

Now that’s just plain silly.
Click to expand...
There were many abuses unfortuneatly regarding the New mass. Many illicit things. Not to put a damper on the NO, but there were illicit things in the TLM too. There were things lost and gained. These are just some examples how some parishes have fallen to the way side.
 
marci said:
Ok. But does anyone believe that any of these effects actually happened?

but little did we guess what an efflorescence of art, architecture, music and worship lay ahead!

I think this statement is too funny

There were fears at first that the vernacular service would damage the solemnity of the Mass. How silly! Far from leading to liturgical abuses, the New Mass nurtured a koinonia that revived Catholic culture and packed our reordered churches to the rafters.

Isn’t weekly mass attendance at an all time low? Didn’t we loose tens of thousands of religious in the decade after the mass? Ever heard of clown masses?

So dramatic was the growth in family Mass observance, indeed, that a new school of Catholic architecture arose to provide places of worship for these new congregations. Throughout the Western world, churches sprang up that combined Christian heritage with the thrilling simplicity of the modern school, creating a sense of the numinous that has proved as irresistible to secular visitors as to the faithful.

Now that’s just plain silly.
Click to expand...
Marci, the article is a joke. Really, it is.
 
Ockham said:
I would be happy if both forms were offered equally.
Click to expand...
I think the Pope actually wanted them to complement each other. But that does presuppose some exposure to both. Easy for me to say, I know, but we have to appreciate what we have. Some areas in the world don’t have any priests at all.
 
LilyM said:
What does equal mean? From what I have observed, for the most part it happens in proportion to demand and expressed interest.

If 50% of Catholics asked for a TLM, or expressed the slightest interest in attending one either at all or as more than a one-off or occasional event, then it would happen 50% of the time (which is one meaning of ‘equally’). If more than one or two people in EVERY parish asked for one, it would happen at at least one Sabbath mass in every parish. Until demand is expressed, there’s no point scheduling TLMs that no or few people will attend.

And impossible in those places where people attend but don’t SUPPORT their TLM community, for example by donating the substantial time, talent or treasure required to sustain such a thing on a regular basis 🤷

It’s up to you TLM devotees to make yourselves heard if you want it to happen - and to convince those who haven’t yet seen the light. 🤷
Click to expand...
In my diocese there is one TLM for several hundred NOs. Over fifty percent of Catholics don’t know the TLM exists so how can they be demanding it? The vast majority of Catholics don’t even attend weekly Mass - clearly unattached to the NO. Devoted Catholics to the TLM are making their voices heard as are young seminarians and our Holy Father.
 
marci said:
Is this a joke?
Click to expand...
Satire, actually

dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire
sat⋅ire
Show Spelled Pronunciation [sat-ahyuh r] Show IPA
Use satire in a Sentence
See web results for satire
See images of satire
–noun
  1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
  2. a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
  3. a literary genre comprising such compositions.
Origin:
1500–10; < L satira, var. of satura medley, perh. fem. deriv. of satur sated (see SATURATE )

Synonyms:
  1. See IRONY 1 . 2, 3. burlesque, caricature, parody, travesty. Satire, lampoon refer to literary forms in which vices or follies are ridiculed. Satire, the general term, often emphasizes the weakness more than the weak person, and usually implies moral judgment and corrective purpose: Swift’s satire of human pettiness and bestiality. Lampoon refers to a form of satire, often political or personal, characterized by the malice or virulence of its attack: lampoons of the leading political figures.
 
We have one TLM Mass at 2PM on Sundays in a large city of three major Catholic churches.

It use to be a source of pride that one could go anywhere in the world and know the Mass. Not so today. My regular parish has only NO Masses.

On Sunday I attended a NO Mass hours from my home. Another experience. Sunday’s church was half a pie construction with a main aisle. First thing I looked for was the Tabernacle. Couldn’t find it. Wonder if they even had one. The “altar” which could have been a table was covered in a dark green floor length cloth. To the right of the altar, where Mary’s altar or statue use to be, was the choir. To the left of the altar, where St. Joseph and his altar should be, was the area where the youth group stood giving testimony to their recent retreat experiences. Behind the altar were banners. No crucifix except for the standard carried by the deacon.

The priest gave many blessings and every time he raised his hands so did the congregation. Never saw that before.

Forty years ago, no one in the congregation was asked if they wanted the NO Mass. We were told this is what the Vatican wanted. What we had wanted in my parish at that time was A TLM said in English on Sunday. That was it. Keep it the same but say it in English. Nope. Told it couldn’t be done. Now there’s been a 180 degree turn. Now told Vatican never required that all Masses be NO. It was up to the bishops. Odd that NO bishop continued a TLM.

I wonder if priests even know how to do a TLM? Why make time for a TLM? Just announce that the usual 8AM Mass on Sunday will be a TLM.

We use to have the TLM Mass at 1PM. It was changed to 2PM. When the priest announced the change, the attitude was he was told this. Wasn’t his idea. I got the impression they’d like to make it as difficult as possible so any interest in attending a TLM will just fade away. Why?
 
Ockham said:
In my diocese there is one TLM for several hundred NOs. Over fifty percent of Catholics don’t know the TLM exists so how can they be demanding it? The vast majority of Catholics don’t even attend weekly Mass - clearly unattached to the NO. Devoted Catholics to the TLM are making their voices heard as are young seminarians and our Holy Father.
Click to expand...
And you and your likeminded TLM devotees are of course mute and dumb and incapable of telling people it exists - at least in such a way that they are shown how attractive it is in itself, rather than merely hectored about how awful the alternative is.

Heck, I saw plenty of reports in the mainstream media about the Motu Proprio when it came out - people can’t be THAT unaware that there is such a thing as the Latin Mass unless they’ve been living on another planet.
 
I don’t see how this thread is even relevant for the Traditional Catholicism forum.
 
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