Happy-Clappy Church Services

[St_John]

I think the title of this thread is disrespectful of different worship styles. For instance, in certain cultures they are very expressive in church, such as African American and Southern churches. They enjoy tent revivals and like to praise the Lord joyously, sometimes by clapping.

The title of this thread seems to mock some of our fellow Christians by infering that their worship is childish, that’s what I think.

 

[Syele]

I think the title of this thread is disrespectful of different worship styles. For instance, in certain cultures they are very expressive in church, such as African American and Southern churches. They enjoy tent revivals and like to praise the Lord joyously, sometimes by clapping.

The title of this thread seems to mock some of our fellow Christians by infering that their worship is childish, that’s what I think.

I agree that it’s very disrespectful, but I was trying to be civil about it anyhow. I also find it offesnsive when people say that being joyful = being entertained. Just because people don’t understand something dosn’t make them right.
Mannyfit:

IMO, those services downgrade worship to God because they turn worship as a form of entertainment, which is more of an insult than worship.

I think it’s pretty brash of you to think you can assume you know the hearts of people just because they are not like you. Expressing ones Joy to God is not necessarily entertainment. Why is enjoying God’s presence wrong in your opinion? The Catholic Masses I attended on Palm Sunday were very enjoyable, with Palm Branches and people reading different parts of the story… Was that not entertainment? How was that not like having a play or reader’s theater at church? It IS like it. People PAY to attent reader’s theater preformances. It is a form of entertainment. Now, I think the Palm Sunday service is beautiful and respectuful to God… but it can still fall in some peoples Calssification of Entertainment. If I’m focused intensly on God and Worshipping Him and it includes clapping, I don’t think I’m “being entertained”. I doubt you taought you were at Mass to be entertained last Palm Sunday either. My form of Worship is different than yours. That dosn’t make it not worship.

The Prtestant churches I attended would spend about half of the time singing, then they would take collection, sing some more, have a three point sermon on whatever the Pastor felt led to talk about that week. Then they would wrap up with an altar call and some more singing.

Yep first half singing (What did we do first? sing praise and worship songs to God.) then offer our tithes and offerings, then yep, sing again. Then there is a sermon (this varies in length according to denomination) and then Guess what we finish off with? Singing worship songs to God! But the truth is that if 14 million protestants got on here and said the focus was worship, everyone would still say the point of singing is to be entertained and the focus is on the sermon and certianly not on God, so I don’t really know why I bother. .

lak611:

I went to one of those charismatic Masses at my church. It’s not really my style of worship, but several of my friends really liked it. They were clapping, raising hands and shouting “Amen”. And one of them is a woman who never enters the church without wearing a mantilla, and she attends Mass every day, be it regular Mass or charismatic Mass. Her motives are right. She is there to worship God, not be entertained.

Good for her, and That’s why I go too. If I just want to be entertained, there’s music in the Park (for free) or I could go to a movie or something.

 

[Julianna]

I think the title of this thread is disrespectful of different worship styles. For instance, in certain cultures they are very expressive in church, such as African American and Southern churches. They enjoy tent revivals and like to praise the Lord joyously, sometimes by clapping.

The title of this thread seems to mock some of our fellow Christians by infering that their worship is childish, that’s what I think.

With you on that St. John. There are many paths but one journey.

and I am really surprised that the mods didn’t jump in and speak about the uncharibility of this threads topic. But then again, it’s not about Catholics…is it?

 

[lak611]

and I am really surprised that the mods didn’t jump in and speak about the uncharibility of this threads topic. But then again, it’s not about Catholics…is it?

Well, I mentioned charismatic Catholic Mass, so actually it is about Catholics. Again, Charismatic/Pentacostal isn’t my style, but for those who like it, including several of my friends, I have no problem with it. The people I know who like the charismatic Mass are very devout Catholics who are there to worship God, not to be entertained. I would not pass judgements on Protestants who like those kinds of services either. God knows what’s in everybodys hearts, not me. If you don’t like Charismatic/Pentacostal Masses or Services, then don’t go to them. There are plenty of more traditional ones available. But it is wrong to make fun of a person or accuse him of being irreverent just because he is Charismatic or Pentacostal.

 

[Jaz_B07]

Let’s not get “happy clappy” music and contemporary music mixed up. Personally I don’t like happy clappy music in church. I think it’s corny. But I do love contemporary praise & worship music. I feel it can be very reverant and appropriate for mass if it’s done right.

But I was just wondering what yall thought about this. I’ve been to a couple Catholic churches that had 30 minutes of Praise & Worship before mass. (With 5-10 minutes of silence before mass started) Is this allowed? Because I know on Christmas Eve a lot of churches sing Christmas carols before mass starts. It’s basically the same concept.

 

[Damascus]

Let’s not get “happy clappy” music and contemporary music mixed up. Personally I don’t like happy clappy music in church. I think it’s corny. But I do love contemporary praise & worship music. I feel it can be very reverant and appropriate for mass if it’s done right.

But I was just wondering what yall thought about this. I’ve been to a couple Catholic churches that had 30 minutes of Praise & Worship before mass. (With 5-10 minutes of silence before mass started) Is this allowed? Because I know on Christmas Eve a lot of churches sing Christmas carols before mass starts. It’s basically the same concept.

I guess its up to your Bishop but I dont know why its a factor to associating what a particular parish does (rightly or wrongly) to connect any dots to thinking— hey, must be okay cuz,

Know what I mean?

 

[Jaz_B07]

I guess its up to your Bishop but I dont know why its a factor to associating what a particular parish does (rightly or wrongly) to connect any dots to thinking— hey, must be okay cuz,

Know what I mean?

Not sure if I fully understand your statement. But I wasn’t trying to justify it. I was just wondering, since it’s ok (i think) on Christmas Eve, is it ok year round? Or is it just for special occasions. That’s all.

 

[Damascus]

Not sure if I fully understand your statement. But I wasn’t trying to justify it. I was just wondering, since it’s ok (i think) on Christmas Eve, is it ok year round? Or is it just for special occasions. That’s all.

Oh. I see. Again, why would Christmas Eve or Palm Sunday or —

be the barometer for anything but what it is?

 

[Julianna]

Well, I mentioned charismatic Catholic Mass, so actually it is about Catholics. Again, Charismatic/Pentacostal isn’t my style, but for those who like it, including several of my friends, I have no problem with it. The people I know who like the charismatic Mass are very devout Catholics who are there to worship God, not to be entertained. I would not pass judgements on Protestants who like those kinds of services either. God knows what’s in everybodys hearts, not me. If you don’t like Charismatic/Pentacostal Masses or Services, then don’t go to them. There are plenty of more traditional ones available. But it is wrong to make fun of a person or accuse him of being irreverent just because he is Charismatic or Pentacostal.

Not my style either, but to each his/her own. And I totally agree, if you don’t like the style, don’t go.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Syele,

You are mistaken. Originally there were no pews in Catholic churches. Rich and poor, famous and unknown, had to stand together during the Mass.

It was the Protestants who began the custom of installing pews in (former) Catholic churches. Further, in Puritan spun sects (Quakers, Anabaptists) as well as main stream Methodists and Lutherans, the men sat together on one side and the women sat together on the other side.

The pews were installed so that the ministers could tell their congregations all about what their personal interpretation of biblical passages could be.

It has only been since the late 1950s in America that mainstream Protestants such as Lutherans and Presbytarians have begun to imitate Catholic liturgy. In fact, our Lectionary is used by many Protestant churches!

Visit the south and attend some of our separated brethren’s ‘worship services.’ It is evident that these community churches were that backlash to the colonial ‘established’ churches that the First Amendment, and Thomas Jefferson, were so concerned about. Even today in many black American neighborhoods, the local church’s minister is seen as a political figure to be reckoned with and visited by the candidate-du-jour from the Democratic party.

 

[lak611]

Syele,

You are mistaken. Originally there were no pews in Catholic churches. Rich and poor, famous and unknown, had to stand together during the Mass.

It was the Protestants who began the custom of installing pews in (former) Catholic churches. Further, in Puritan spun sects (Quakers, Anabaptists) as well as main stream Methodists and Lutherans, the men sat together on one side and the women sat together on the other side.

The pews were installed so that the ministers could tell their congregations all about what their personal interpretation of biblical passages could be.

It has only been since the late 1950s in America that mainstream Protestants such as Lutherans and Presbytarians have begun to imitate Catholic liturgy. In fact, our Lectionary is used by many Protestant churches!

Visit the south and attend some of our separated brethren’s ‘worship services.’ It is evident that these community churches were that backlash to the colonial ‘established’ churches that the First Amendment, and Thomas Jefferson, were so concerned about. Even today in many black American neighborhoods, the local church’s minister is seen as a political figure to be reckoned with and visited by the candidate-du-jour from the Democratic party.

Jonathan, I don’t understand the direction your post is going? I thought this thread was about charismatic/pentacostal Masses and Services. What do pews and politics have to do with it? Sorry if my post seems harsh. I’m really not trying to be sarcastic, I’m just confused.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

I was answering Syele’s post number 6 wherein she quotes Della’s post, to wit, “the main focus” of Protestant services is “the sermon.”

Syele’s answer said, “…this is a myth made up by Catholics.”

My post corrected Syele. You may disagree, too, but I taught the history of the colonial period in undergraduate courses and I would be happy to share my sources with you and Syele.

As to the other comments, they were to demonstrate the fluid nature of Protestant ‘worship.’ Some churches are political and ethnic bases for a community (a statement of fact not an inference of politics) and others (most notably Lutherans and Presbytarians as I mentioned) are starting to look more and more like Catholic Masses.

Is this clearer for you?

Pax Christi

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Sorry, one more thing.

If a Catholic thinks she is fulfilling her obligation to attend Mass at least once a week by going to a non-Catholic rite Church (Roman, Eastern, Coptic, Mozarabic, Maronite, etc) then she is woefully mistaken.

Do not confuse worship services with the Mass. The Mass is not a ‘service.’ Novenas are a service. The Stations of the Cross are a service. The Mass (as per the Bible, Tradition and especially, Revelation -where many of its images come from) is the core of Christian belief: the True Presence of our Lord in the Eucharist.

 

[lak611]

Sorry, I must disagree! Catholic Mass may be Roman (or Latin Rite), Byzantine, Maronite, Melkite. These are ALL valid Catholic Masses. The Eastern Catholic Churches who are in communion with the Holy Father are just as valid as the Roman Catholic (or Latin Rite).

 

[lak611]

Is this clearer for you?

Pax Christi

Sorry, I don’t get it. And I am Catholic.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Yikes! Saints Alive!

Did I goof up! I meant to list those Churches NOT in communion with Rome. Mamma Mia!

Or should I plead, mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa

Please forgive the brain drain here!

 

[Karianne]

I’m interested in getting peoples opinions on the “Happy-Clappy” entertaining services found in some protestant demoninations, mega-churches and also filtering their way into some Catholic parishes. Is this type of service good and reverent to God? Are people getting more out these services with the stage productions? Do they honor God?

I think that they have their place in our Church. It’s a pluralistic Church, after all.
We have a church called St Augustine’s in DC, there’s a wonderful Gospel Choir and the Mass goes on for about two hours. I really enjoyed going to Mass there, but it’s also nice to have a quieter Mass at times.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

I’m interested in getting peoples opinions on the “Happy-Clappy” entertaining services found in some protestant demoninations, mega-churches and also filtering their way into some Catholic parishes. Is this type of service good and reverent to God? Are people getting more out these services with the stage productions? Do they honor God?

What I meant by “is this clearer” is a reference to the OP, quoted above.

Since the crux of the Mass is the Eucharistic celebration, as commanded by Christ, as the center of the Church’s life from the beginning, and requires our participation, my answers have been directed to giving my opinions to the points listed above, and, in the case of Syele’s statement, to correct her misinformation about the initial organization and purpose of Protestant ‘worship services.’

Now, I hope this is crystal-with-no-clouds-in-the-sky-on-a-June-day clearer

Pax Christi

 

[twiggymoo]

I’m interested in getting peoples opinions on the “Happy-Clappy” entertaining services found in some protestant demoninations, mega-churches and also filtering their way into some Catholic parishes. Is this type of service good and reverent to God? Are people getting more out these services with the stage productions? Do they honor God?

OOOOOhhh - don’t get me started

 

[twiggymoo]

It is fine if people want to be exhuberant and happy praising god. But I disagree that everyone in any church service all share that same emotion and therefore it becomes fake or put on for many. I think services should be sober. Also, there is the mistaken notion that Joy=Happy. This is not the case. Joy is much more profound than the happy thing. We can be joyful in our sufferings - this element (suffering) is ignored by and large by our evangelical friends.