Happy-Clappy Church Services

[lucybeebee]

Mass serves four purposes:

1. adoration
2. atonement
3. thanksgiving
4. petition

“Happy clappy services” tend to omit number 2. Because the mass recreates the sacrafice of Calvary, it seems unbecoming in my opinion to have upbeat music and spectacles during this time. The point of going to mass is not to be entertained, at least not in the same way you are when you go to the movies or watch TV. Given the grave character of the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass should invoke in its participants, the use of “worship and praise” music is inappropriate.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Happy Clappy!

IMHO, Reverance, Awe, and Fear of God is absent in Happy Clappy churches. The need to be entertained is a result of the “Been There Done That” stigmata that has branded the minds and hearts of many.

Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people…

Luk 18:2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:…Luk 18:4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;…

Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?..

Act 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Act 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Act 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience…Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes…
**
2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.**

…Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God…

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;

Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Happy Clappy would be O-kay if the proper air of the “Fear of God” existed.

 

[twiggymoo]

Happy Clappy!
IMHO, Reverance, Awe, and Fear of God is absent in Happy Clappy churches. The need to be entertained is a result of the “Been There Done That” stigmata that has branded the minds and hearts of many.

Yes, that nails it. There is a notable lack of reverence and fear of God in those happy/clappy churches. With that - a whole lot of presumption.

 

[Montalban]

I’m interested in getting peoples opinions on the “Happy-Clappy” entertaining services found in some protestant demoninations, mega-churches and also filtering their way into some Catholic parishes. Is this type of service good and reverent to God? Are people getting more out these services with the stage productions? Do they honor God?

I know a woman who took a course in ‘liturgical dancing’ !
True story.

 

[Syele]

Syele,

You are mistaken. Originally there were no pews in Catholic churches. Rich and poor, famous and unknown, had to stand together during the Mass.

It was the Protestants who began the custom of installing pews in (former) Catholic churches. Further, in Puritan spun sects (Quakers, Anabaptists) as well as main stream Methodists and Lutherans, the men sat together on one side and the women sat together on the other side.

The pews were installed so that the ministers could tell their congregations all about what their personal interpretation of biblical passages could be.

So the Catholics followed the Protestant custom of installing pews? Since when do Catholics go around imitating Protestants? In case you haven’t noticed, Catholic Parishes now have pews as well… you mean to say that the presence of pews proves the purpose of a service is not worship but listening to sermons? If so, It seems Catholics have the same trouble Protestants do.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Syele:

Many of the old Cathedrals and Romanesque churches in Italy that I have attended Mass do not have pews. They have these half seats parallet to the nave for the old and infirm and faint of heart.

Yes, in America we Catholics do imitate our Protestant brethren! Unfortunately, some Diocesan priests’ need a refresher course on homiletics, too!

We celebrate the Mass
They attend a worship service

Pax Christi

 

[Syele]

Syele:

Many of the old Cathedrals and Romanesque churches in Italy that I have attended Mass do not have pews. They have these half seats parallet to the nave for the old and infirm and faint of heart.

Yes, in America we Catholics do imitate our Protestant brethren! Unfortunately, some Diocesan priests’ need a refresher course on homiletics, too!

We celebrate the Mass
They attend a worship service

Pax Christi

I know of some protestant churches with no pews. Pews are not limited to the USA. I attended protestant Church in India and it had only 3 folding chairs in the back for old and infirm. the men and women do not sit together either. I did not find a direct correleation between seating and quality of worship.

 

[lak611]

Yes, in America we Catholics do imitate our Protestant brethren! Unfortunately, some Diocesan priests’ need a refresher course on homiletics, too!

Jonathan,
I am confused. What do pews and homiletics have to do with charismatic/pentacostal style of Mass or Services? You sound like you’re giving us some interesting history lessons, but it does not appear related to this thread.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I know of some protestant churches with no pews. Pews are not limited to the USA. I attended protestant Church in India and it had only 3 folding chairs in the back for old and infirm. the men and women do not sit together either. I did not find a direct correleation between seating and quality of worship.

IMHO, a protestant service is less about actual worship of God, it’s more about “Being entertained or I find another church”. What part of a Protestant service is actually worship? A sermon is not actual worship. Singing a few hymns is. The opening and closing prayer is. Majority of the service is dedicated to the sermon. Not much worship there. Now for the Catholic church, the sermon is only 10 to 15 minutes, the rest of the service is praying, reprofessing one’s faith and belief, and hymns. Now if you take out the semon all together as you have with a weekday Mass, then the whole service is worship.

 

[rr1213]

IMHO, a protestant service is less about actual worship of God, it’s more about “Being entertained or I find another church”. What part of a Protestant service is actually worship?

Eucharist, prayer, hymn singing, prayerful consideration of the sermon. Pretty much everything other than the announcements. Worship is a state of mind and spirit.

 

[Syele]

IMHO, a protestant service is less about actual worship of God, it’s more about “Being entertained or I find another church”. What part of a Protestant service is actually worship? A sermon is not actual worship. Singing a few hymns is. The opening and closing prayer is. Majority of the service is dedicated to the sermon. Not much worship there. Now for the Catholic church, the sermon is only 10 to 15 minutes, the rest of the service is praying, reprofessing one’s faith and belief, and hymns. Now if you take out the semon all together as you have with a weekday Mass, then the whole service is worship.

I arrive at church and we sing praise and worship songs to God for at least 1 hour. Then we have a prayer time, sing another song while the offering is passed, We have a greeting time followed by communion, We have a sermon (most sundays, but not all) it is usually about 30-45minutes. Then we sing one or two more songs and the pastor invites people up for prayer if they need it. It’s not uncommon at all at my church to skip the sermon. While your sermon is only 15 minutes, your Mass is only an hour. We are generally in our Church service at least 2 hours. I have attended a great many Masses I know what it entails… and I know that my Protestant service worships as much as the Catholics do… but we do it differently.

 

[twiggymoo]

I arrive at church and we sing praise and worship songs to God for at least 1 hour. Then we have a prayer time, sing another song while the offering is passed, We have a greeting time followed by communion, We have a sermon (most sundays, but not all) it is usually about 30-45minutes. Then we sing one or two more songs and the pastor invites people up for prayer if they need it. It’s not uncommon at all at my church to skip the sermon. While your sermon is only 15 minutes, your Mass is only an hour. We are generally in our Church service at least 2 hours. I have attended a great many Masses I know what it entails… and I know that my Protestant service worships as much as the Catholics do… but we do it differently.

2-hour church service? At least 1 hour of praise songs??? I don’t think I could stand it. I’d go bonkers. At our baptist church, there is also an extended period of singing praise songs. One Sunday, a lady behind tapped me on the shoulder and asked, “excuse me, but when will the sermon start”? “The music is a bit much”. I find the modern praise music loud, banal, and self-absorbed.

 

[Tonks40]

2-hour church service? At least 1 hour of praise songs??? I don’t think I could stand it. I’d go bonkers. At our baptist church, there is also an extended period of singing praise songs. One Sunday, a lady behind tapped me on the shoulder and asked, “excuse me, but when will the sermon start”? “The music is a bit much”. I find the modern praise music loud, banal, and self-absorbed.

A couple of years ago, when we started attending a non-denominational service, they placed a lot of emphasis on the music - modern, contemporary Christian and gospel music. My-then four-year-old son would fall asleep half-way through the service.

Now that we’re attending Mass on a weekly basis, I have yet to see him fall asleep! He worships, prays follows the readings, and is paying very close attention during the Liturgy of the Eucharist. At the other church, he was just a spectator.

This Christmas eve, I promised to attend the Christmas Eve services at the non-denominational church to some friends of mine. But I plan on not subjecting my son and and my family to it - for fear that they would fall asleep again. The excitment of Christmas will happen when we attend our Christmas Vigil Mass later that evening and can fully participate in the Mass!

 

[twiggymoo]

A couple of years ago, when we started attending a non-denominational service, they placed a lot of emphasis on the music - modern, contemporary Christian and gospel music. My-then four-year-old son would fall asleep half-way through the service.

Now that we’re attending Mass on a weekly basis, I have yet to see him fall asleep! He worships, prays follows the readings, and is paying very close attention during the Liturgy of the Eucharist. At the other church, he was just a spectator.

This Christmas eve, I promised to attend the Christmas Eve services at the non-denominational church to some friends of mine. But I plan on not subjecting my son and and my family to it - for fear that they would fall asleep again. The excitment of Christmas will happen when we attend our Christmas Vigil Mass later that evening and can fully participate in the Mass!

I think there is way-too-much emphasis placed on music. It becomes entertainment. I also am of the opinion that the modern praise songs we hear in evangelical churches today can be traced back to the 60’s with the hippies and drug culture. This is where converted hippies were allowed to bring their style of music into a worship service - I think Calvary Chapel was first to embrace it.
I am still on my journey to Rome. I hope I can arrive soon.

 

[sconea]

Perhaps we should consider how Our Lord asked to be worshipped.
Do this is memory of Me.

That is…the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…the Eucharist…all else is secondary.

If you do not “do this in memory of Me” are you worshipping God as He asked to be worshipped?

 

[lak611]

Perhaps we should consider how Our Lord asked to be worshipped.
Do this is memory of Me.

That is…the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…the Eucharist…all else is secondary.

If you do not “do this in memory of Me” are you worshipping God as He asked to be worshipped?

But if you do this, the style of music is not an issue. I don’t like charismatic Masses as much as regular Masses, but I still know that they are ALL worship. God does not have any particular musical preferences. He welcomes all worship done in Spirit and in Truth.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Perhaps we should consider how Our Lord asked to be worshipped.
Do this is memory of Me.

That is…the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…the Eucharist…all else is secondary.

If you do not “do this in memory of Me” are you worshipping God as He asked to be worshipped?

As long as the memorial aspect is there, does it really matter if we choose to praise him in an upbeat tone, versus a melodramatic one?

 

[lak611]

As long as the memorial aspect is there, does it really matter if we choose to praise him in an upbeat tone, versus a melodramatic one?

No, it does not.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

As long as the memorial aspect is there, does it really matter if we choose to praise him in an upbeat tone, versus a melodramatic one?

Blue Serenity:

Your profile says that your non-denominational, am I correct?

If so, then I have two points to make:

1. “The memorial aspect” for you is nothing, the Eucharist is playacting. But for Catholics it is the True Presence of Christ among us as instituted in Scripture and remembered since the earliest gatherings of Christians in the Mass.

This infers to me (and I hope I am mistaken) that

1. Your characterization of our Mass as being “melodramatic” is disingenuous and off point to the original posting. At worst, you are being disrespectful of my beliefs as a Catholic in the Eucharist.

Pax Christi

 

[lak611]

This infers to me (and I hope I am mistaken) that

1. Your characterization of our Mass as being “melodramatic” is disingenuous and off point to the original posting. At worst, you are being disrespectful of my beliefs as a Catholic in the Eucharist.

I am a Catholic, and I don’t think Mass is melodramatic at all. In my last post, I simply said that Mass is just as valid and just as much worship of God regardless of the style of music played during the Mass. I have charismatic Catholic friends who are very devout Catholics and completely understand and love our Lord in the Eucharist.

And for our Protestant brothers and sisters, they are worshipping God whether or not they choose traditional hymns or praise/worship style of music at their services.