Happy-Clappy Church Services

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lak611 said:
Jonathan,
I am confused.:confused: What do pews and homiletics have to do with charismatic/pentacostal style of Mass or Services? You sound like you’re giving us some interesting history lessons, but it does not appear related to this thread.
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lak611;

Follow my thread up to Syele’s statement about Catholics.

I was answering her statement.
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JoeyWarren said:
IMHO, a protestant service is less about actual worship of God, it’s more about “Being entertained or I find another church”. What part of a Protestant service is actually worship? A sermon is not actual worship. Singing a few hymns is. The opening and closing prayer is. Majority of the service is dedicated to the sermon. Not much worship there. Now for the Catholic church, the sermon is only 10 to 15 minutes, the rest of the service is praying, reprofessing one’s faith and belief, and hymns. Now if you take out the semon all together as you have with a weekday Mass, then the whole service is worship.
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That does not apply to all protestant churches i guess. So far never being to any churches in America yet, so no comments about it. But my church runs this way. We have at least 45min to one hour praise and worship and then praying around 10 -15 min, , opening prayer for the sermon preaching, 1 to 1.5hr and half hours of sermons, closing with altar calls, then praying again for the closing , then praise and worship again for another 15mins. Thus my service is at least 2 to 2.5hr , once in a while up to 3hrs…My church emphasize alots on praise, worship and prayer
 
My parish is probably happy-clappy…Maybe the 95% Philipino population has something to do with it. I didn’t come home for these shenanigans. 😦
 
codesmith said:
“Vatican City, Nov. 06, 2006 (CNA) - Sources close the Holy See are saying that during his upcoming visit to the St. Cecilia Music Academy Pope Benedict XVI may address the need to recover the quality of sacred music in the liturgical life of the Church.”

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=7991​

Yes!!!

In my 25 1/2 years as a Catholic, I have changed parishes over music almost as much as I’ve moved. I’ve been a member of a parish with WONDERFUL, theologically-sound, orthodox hymns for nearly six years. Much to my sorrow, I have to leave as I have completed a graduate degree which necessitates my being able to use it to obtain appropriate employment. (I’m in an economically-depressed area.)

I was raised as an unchurched Methodist in the South. My first long-term exposure to organized religion was during my attendance at two High Church Episcopal schools in the South in the 1960s.

I was received into the Church in 1981 after six years of prayer and self-directed study. (I lived in an area that was appproximately 95% non-Catholic and was unable to locate any orthodox Catholics.)

I’ve just never been “in to” happy-clappy.

Elizabeth
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heh, well if we focus on learning about God we “don’t worship, just read about God” if we sing and worship, we are “too entertained.” We just worship differently than you do, dosn’t make it wrong. Dosn’t mean it’s not worship.

No matter HOW a protestant worships there will be Catholics here who can find fault with it, for no other reason than it’s not Catholic.
 
A “praise and worship” sing-a-long with a talk on someone’s personal interpretation of a bible verse, is not Worship and certainly not the Worship that Our Lord commanded.

That is why too much of the happy clappy “praise and worship” hootenanny can be such a distraction during Mass. Beautiful hymns of praise can be lovely addition, but even that is not needed to complete the beauty of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the true worship of God throughout the earth.
 
Syele said:
God created a time and a purpose for everything. He made us, all the parts of us and that includes our emotions. He is honored when we honor Him in all of our ways. There is a time for quiet reverence and a time for being excited about what God has done. Just because someone is excited about all God has done for them does not make them disrespectful to God. There is a time for it, and just because people are happy and clapping dosn’t mean they are “entertained”. Consider this passage of scripture:

Were they quiet and reverent in their Praises? No, but they were Praising Jesus and they were honoring Him just as well.

Or how about this one:

Here are some more:

Praise includes many things it is not irreverent to Praise Jesus in our congregations. I listed lots of ways that clapping and loud shouting and dancing and singing, instruments etc. are apporpriate. there are times when we should be quiet and still in our praise as well. “Be still and Know I am God.” Just because people are happy and excited dosn’t mean they do it to be entertained. Believe it or not, we do it because we love God so much we can’t hold it all in.

I will admit there are some people out there who do NOT feel that excited about God and yet they shout and dance anyhow, but I can say the same thing about people in churches who do not do these things, they are not feeling like being quiet and still and reverent before God and yet they stand and sit and recite prayers at the appointed time anyhow. Either way, God knows where our hearts are when we attand a service be it a Mass or a Protestant Worship.
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Syele…I notice all of your quotes are from the old testament which has been fulfilled now. Have you not read in the NEW testament…“This is my body, this is my blood” and “Do THIS in memory of me?”
 
Syele said:
heh, well if we focus on learning about God we “don’t worship, just read about God” if we sing and worship, we are “too entertained.” We just worship differently than you do, dosn’t make it wrong. Dosn’t mean it’s not worship.

No matter HOW a protestant worships there will be Catholics here who can find fault with it, for no other reason than it’s not Catholic.
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Just can’t win, can we?
 
rr1213 said:
Just can’t win, can we?
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Hi There

It doesn’t matter who win or lose anyway we as protestant are just sharing what Catholic think that our service are or might consider to some like entertainment show then worshipping the Lord. Nonetheless they are tonnes of tradtion Catholic/mainstream Christian who simply cannot accept charismatics service. That is ok, becoz God created us differently, most importantly they cannot deny Charismatics service as a false practise/service then they are save from being making wrong assumption based on their earthly wisdom.
 
happygal said:
Hi There

It doesn’t matter who win or lose anyway we as protestant are just sharing what Catholic think that our service are or might consider to some like entertainment show then worshipping the Lord. Nonetheless they are tonnes of tradtion Catholic/mainstream Christian who simply cannot accept charismatics service. That is ok, becoz God created us differently, most importantly they cannot deny Charismatics service as a false practise/service then they are save from being making wrong assumption based on their earthly wisdom.
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I know, I was making a joke. 🙂
 
sconea said:
Syele…I notice all of your quotes are from the old testament which has been fulfilled now. Have you not read in the NEW testament…“This is my body, this is my blood” and “Do THIS in memory of me?”
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They even sang a hymn after Jesus’ last Passover meal before they left for the Mount of Olives.

Most protestants DO believe their communion is doing what Jesus asked us to do in His memory. Your argument seems to be that the Eucharist is the ONLY way to worship God since the time of the New Testament? That seems a bit extreme. I think most Catholics would disagree with you; there are and have always been many ways to worship. I am wholly unconvinced that the Catholic Church has the Eucharist correct anyhow, but this is another topic altogether.

Things did not change so much in the New Testament… here are some New Testament verses, since you requested them.

Heb. 13:15
Through Christ then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of the lips that give thanks to his name.

Ephesians 5:19
19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

It is not the outward motions that are so important but the state of your heart that matters. God wants us to sacrifice our lives to Him. There is no verse that says “Be sad and downhearted, for Christ had to die for you, do not praise Him or be happy, lo do not clap!”

**
Colossians 3:15-17**
15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Hmmm Spending time teaching one another (sermons, Sunday Schools, and Bible studies), Singing praises to God and Thanking Him (singing Happy Praise songs in Worship services). Protestant services Sound like what Colossians is talking about to me.

Acts 2:42
They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

Acts 20:7
7On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

There has never been Much “fellowship” at any Catholic Mass I ever attended. I didn’t even know the names of the people near me, much less what their needs for prayer might be, even after attending regularly for years. Catholics I talk to would be appalled to have to listen to teaching all the way till midnight… “:eek: They focused on sermons!!”

James 5
13Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray.** Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise.**

They even use harps in Heaven 😉

Revelation 14:2-3
2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders.

There is no inherent spiritual value in any musical instrument or style, it’s all about the state of your heart as you sing. There is no “Perfect” style of singing to God except the one that praises and worships God with all YOUR heart. If I’m focused on God and Praising Him it doesn’t matter if I’m happy or clapping.
 
I think it all boils down to reverence. This morning I was at midnight Mass and the priest danced the polka to Jingle Bells up and down the aisle with a life sized stuffed frog dressed as Santa (the frog was dressed as Santa the priest had on candy cane vestments). If the priest wants to do this sort of thing, lovely, but ihmo, it doesn’t belong in Mass. It doesn’t promote the sense of awe that we’re supposed to have being in the presence of our God.
 
Lorik said:
the priest danced the polka to Jingle Bells up and down the aisle with a life sized stuffed frog dressed as Santa (the frog was dressed as Santa the priest had on candy cane vestments).
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I gotta ask, Was their some point he was illustrating? Or was he just having too much fun?
 
There has never been Much “fellowship” at any Catholic Mass I ever attended. I didn’t even know the names of the people near me, much less what their needs for prayer might be, even after attending regularly for years.
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Syele…Catholics don’t attend Mass for fellowship with each other, but to worship God. The fellowship and unity of the Holy Spirit is there, though you do not perceive it. You would find plenty of ’ social fellowship’ if you were involved in other parish activities.
 
I think he was trying to show us how we need to dance as members of the Church with the bridegroom Christ and not be wallflowers. But it really didn’t make me feel like wanting to dance. However if he was just trying to get our attention, he did. I’ll never forget the swirling of the white vestments and those green frog legs.
 
sconea said:
Syele…Catholics don’t attend Mass for fellowship with each other, but to worship God. The fellowship and unity of the Holy Spirit is there, though you do not perceive it. You would find plenty of ’ social fellowship’ if you were involved in other parish activities.
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I DID attend the only other Parish activity that was ever publicized as available in the years I attended Mass. The only person who spoke to me at it was the person who I drove to it. Period. No one spoke to me at any function other than a “Peace be with you.” Mass or otherwise, fellowship IS listed in Scripture as something Christians are supposed to do together. How can you pray for one another if you don’t even know one another’s names, much less what they need?
 
Lorik said:
I think he was trying to show us how we need to dance as members of the Church with the bridegroom Christ and not be wallflowers. But it really didn’t make me feel like wanting to dance. However if he was just trying to get our attention, he did. I’ll never forget the swirling of the white vestments and those green frog legs.
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I can’t even get a mental picture of that. I can’t figure what possessed him to use a frog either.
 
Syele said:
I DID attend the only other Parish activity that was ever publicized as available in the years I attended Mass. The only person who spoke to me at it was the person who I drove to it. Period. No one spoke to me at any function other than a “Peace be with you.” Mass or otherwise, fellowship IS listed in Scripture as something Christians are supposed to do together. How can you pray for one another if you don’t even know one another’s names, much less what they need?
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Didn’t they have bingo?
 
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