Happy-Clappy Church Services

[lak611]

There are times and places for all types of authentic human responses to the gift that Christ is.

You have given an excellent answer!

 

[rr1213]

And what was the New Testament reading from the lectionary today, Sunday the 31st of December?

 

[Syele]

And what was the New Testament reading from the lectionary today, Sunday the 31st of December?

Reading II
Col 3:12-21 or 3:12-17

Brothers and sisters:
Put on, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved,
heartfelt compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience,
bearing with one another and forgiving one another,
if one has a grievance against another;
as the Lord has forgiven you, so must you also do.
And over all these put on love,
that is, the bond of perfection.
And let the peace of Christ control your hearts,
the peace into which you were also called in one body.
And be thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly,
as in all wisdom you teach and admonish one another,
singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs
with gratitude in your hearts to God.
And whatever you do, in word or in deed,
do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Wives, be subordinate to your husbands,
as is proper in the Lord.
Husbands, love your wives,
and avoid any bitterness toward them.
Children, obey your parents in everything,
for this is pleasing to the Lord.
Fathers, do not provoke your children,
so they may not become discouraged.

or

Brothers and sisters:
Put on, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved,
heartfelt compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience,
bearing with one another and forgiving one another,
if one has a grievance against another;
as the Lord has forgiven you, so must you also do.
And over all these put on love,
that is, the bond of perfection.
And let the peace of Christ control your hearts,
the peace into which you were also called in one body.
And be thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly,
as in all wisdom you teach and admonish one another,
singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs
with gratitude in your hearts to God.
And whatever you do, in word or in deed,
do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God the Father through him.

or

1 Jn 3:1-2, 21-24

Beloved:
See what love the Father has bestowed on us
that we may be called the children of God.
And so we are.
The reason the world does not know us
is that it did not know him.
Beloved, we are God’s children now;
what we shall be has not yet been revealed.
We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him,
for we shall see him as he is.

Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us,
we have confidence in God and receive from him whatever we ask,
because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
And his commandment is this:
we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ,
and love one another just as he commanded us.
Those who keep his commandments remain in him, and he in them,
and the way we know that he remains in us
is from the Spirit he gave us.

Gospel
Lk 2:41-52

Each year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the feast
of Passover,
and when he was twelve years old,
they went up according to festival custom.
After they had completed its days, as they were returning,
the boy Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem,
but his parents did not know it.
Thinking that he was in the caravan,
they journeyed for a day
and looked for him among their relatives and acquaintances,
but not finding him,
they returned to Jerusalem to look for him.
After three days they found him in the temple,
sitting in the midst of the teachers,
listening to them and asking them questions,
and all who heard him were astounded
at his understanding and his answers.
When his parents saw him,
they were astonished,
and his mother said to him,
“Son, why have you done this to us?
Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.”
And he said to them,
“Why were you looking for me?
Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?’
But they did not understand what he said to them.
He went down with them and came to Nazareth,
and was obedient to them;
and his mother kept all these things in her heart.
And Jesus advanced in wisdom and age and favor
before God and man.

 

[Catherine_S]

Hello everyone!

I am new here so I thought I would jump right in with a few comments of my own on the subject of Happy-Clappy Services from a bit of a different persective. I am a confessional Lutheran which means, according to many in my home parish and many other “Protestants” , I am “too catholic”! I have been taught to view worship differently in that it is not what we “do” but what we “receive” . In other words, it is God’s service to us in his Word and Sacraments and our response to those gifts is our thanks and praise. Because He is truly present in the Eucharist,** I believe we should act in a devout, reverent, dignified manner and the worship should reflect that as well.** If Christ were to stand before us in human form, would we be clapping and hand waving? I doubt it. We would be on our knees.
Just my two cents.

I agree with you Mariner!
.
Revelation 11:1-2, 19 presents the idealized Temple revealed in Ezekiel chapters 40 through 48. It is the same Temple, “the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation” (Heb. 9:11), that Jesus, as our great high priest (Heb. 4:14), entered after his Ascension. **Christ’s sacrifice on the cross did not terminate the pattern of sacrificial, liturgical worship in heaven, but gave it meaning **and efficacy by fulfilling it.

We see no “tent revivals” in heaven. There is nothing in heaven that reminds us of the forms of worship peculiar to Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism. All follows Paul’s admonition that** “everything must be done properly and in order” (1 Cor. 14:40).** As Chilton says, the idea of the “sermon- sandwich” (a sermon sandwiched between hymns) is alien to the worship decreed by God. Heavenly worship centers on Christ’s eternal sacrifice, and, in consequence, true Christian worship mirrors and participates in this sacrificial offering. This is why the Mass must be a sacrifice - not a new sacrifice, but an eternal participation in the unique sacrifice of Calvary (1 Cor. 11:26).

Our Lord taught us to pray, “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” What is God’s will but that he be worshiped and glorified? When we pray the Our Father we ask that what God has willed in heaven may come to pass in our midst, that we may participate in the eternal, heavenly praise of the Lord.

Jesus then asked us to pray, “Give us this day our daily bread.” Here we ask for **“that bread that came down from heaven” **- not the supermarket variety, but the supernatural bread through which we “will live forever” (John 6:58). For God’s will to be done on earth as it is in heaven, we must ask for and partake of the Eucharist.
catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9301fea1.asp
.

 

[rr1213]

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly,
as in all wisdom you teach and admonish one another,
singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs
with gratitude in your hearts to God.
And whatever you do, in word or in deed,
do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God the Father through him.”

Yes, this is what I was thinking about. It seems to have relevance to the topic of the thread.

 

[Catherine_S]

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly,
as in all wisdom you teach and admonish one another,
singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs
with gratitude in your hearts to God.
And whatever you do, in word or in deed,
do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God the Father through him.”

Yes, this is what I was thinking about. It seems to have relevance to the topic of the thread.

Wonderful for prayer meetings and for contemplation in our daily lives!!

 

[Alexius]

It seems that these churches are too focused on appeasing man rather than God. Auditorium seats of plush cloth, a/v equipment, 5000 watt speakers, 200-channel sound board, 50 amps, huge video screen with verses so you don’t have to bring a Bible, guitars and drums and all the entertainment you used to get at a Pink Floyd concert . We worship God alone with heart, mind, and soul. Somehow in these churches, “good feelings inside” dominates the experience.

Thank you, but if I want to contemplate Christ, I’ll go to the Liturgy…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[runandsew]

But if draws in the masses.
Consider it good bait, for the fishers of men.

 

[Alexius]

runandsew: But if draws in the masses.
Consider it good bait, for the fishers of men.

Exhibit A: Ye olde “Everyone’s doing it!” example.

Exhibit B: Ye olde Mothers’ response: “If everyone jumped of a bridge would you ?”

Exhibit C: Ye olde my response: "I don’t think everyone could fit on the bridge… "

 

[runandsew]

Exhibit A: Ye olde “Everyone’s doing it!” example.
Sound good to me, let’s try it.
Exhibit B: Ye olde Mothers’ response: “If everyone jumped of a bridge would you ?”
yes
Exhibit C: Ye olde my response: "I don’t think everyone could fit on the bridge… " sure they can especially if they are Happy- Clappy

 

[ComradeAndrei]

One has to wonder at these recent innovations, as such has not been part of the tradition of the Latin Rite. One may mention that in the Eastern Rite they make more use of gestures and such, but the general aire of piety, reverence, and tradition is present.

Can the same be said for this other stuff? It is a modern invention that does not have at its source Catholic tradition. Quote the Bible about clapping and whatnot but the truth is that such is not the tradition of the Church and that we have been warned against introducing things into the liturgy without discretion and proper deference to tradition.

 

[Mariner1]

One has to wonder at these recent innovations, as such has not been part of the tradition of the Latin Rite. One may mention that in the Eastern Rite they make more use of gestures and such, but the general aire of piety, reverence, and tradition is present.

Can the same be said for this other stuff? It is a modern invention that does not have at its source Catholic tradition. Quote the Bible about clapping and whatnot but the truth is that such is not the tradition of the Church and that we have been warned against introducing things into the liturgy without discretion and proper deference to tradition.

Excellent point. Scripture cautions us not to be of this world, yet that is exactly we do…make it modern, make it now, make it relevant to today. It puts “cheeks in the seat” but I’m afraid once there, solid doctrine may be missing. What we receive in the Eucharist and by hearing the Word is food for the soul. It is similar to when my children were little…do I give them what they want? Or do I give them what they need?

 

[lucybeebee]

It’s important to remember that what’s hip and relevent today will most likely go out of style within a few years. To take a secular example, “bad” music videos are only considered so because the fashion and music tastes they trumpet are beleived to be passe by today’s pop music consumer. If today’s teenagers had lived in the 1980s they would have been wearing leg warmers and acid washed jeans with the best of them. Similarly, does anyone beleive that today’s “Christian rock” or worship and praise music will be popular in 20, 10, or even 5 years? The music we have in Mass should be outside the fickle tastes of contemporary tastes .

 

[strngrnrth]

We have a sort-of-optional 15-minute prayer time where we walk around and pray over various things, some freeform and some led by a prayer leader. Then the seats fill. Then we have singing, where we can dance and clap, it’s encouraged but a lot of us don’t. then announcements and referrals to the bulletin, then more singing, a reprise, perhaps a drama or dance or video presentation, often a special report, such as a missions report r a financial report. That all adds up to maybe an hour. then a sermon, usually more than half an hour. Altar calls sometimes follow, or special group prayer. Once in a while communion. Then we’re dismissed while the band plays a reprise of one of the songs from earlier in the day. The whole thing runs to around two hours.

 

[KofC660]

Hey, I’ll let you worship God in your way, I’ll worship Him in His.

 

[jfallaw]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. I just don’t get anything out of it. I separate praise and worship. I praise with prayers and song, and I worship at the Mass and in my devotions.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

What I dont understand is why anyone feels the need to judge how someone else(or a group of people) worships God:shrug:

The only wrong way is not worshipping Him at all

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Well, yes, the Charismatic masses have the same kind of music as Protestant churches (when in college I attended one that had the priest playing a mandolin to the greats of Gospel music – I Saw the Light, I’ll Fly Away…), but at their heart, they are a mass. There are still the same readings from Scripture in the same order one would expect them, the Creed is still recited, the Eucharistic prayer is still chosen from among the legitimate ones available and so on. There may be speaking in tongues, prophesying and other gifts of the Spirit on display and yes, there is joy!

I also thought that the centerpiece of an Evangelical service was the sermon. It does seem to take up the most time. Of course, you’re right too, the purpose of people going to the service is to glory in and worship God.

Folks are different. Some like raucous worship, some want silent worship, some want something in between. And they all hope their worship is beautiful to God.

It’s also possible to be:​

• Evangelical
• Charismatic
• High Church
• Liturgical
• Anglican

• I went to a church like that

So there is no necessary conflict between liturgical & more demonstrative worship; & these elements in worship need not rule out attention to preaching.

 

[Syele]

What I dont understand is why anyone feels the need to judge how someone else(or a group of people) worships God:shrug:

The only wrong way is not worshipping Him at all

:extrahappy::clapping::clapping:
(oops sorry, I got a little Happy-Clappy there)

 

[Mannyfit75]

What I dont understand is why anyone feels the need to judge how someone else(or a group of people) worships God:shrug:

The only wrong way is not worshipping Him at all

In Africa, the Catholic Mass does include Liturgical Dances, and clapping hands. That is allowable in accordances to the Council of Secon Vatican II. However, they are not permitted in the Latin Rite Catholic Churches.