Happy St. Joseph's Day

[Patchunky]

Its also worth noting that in icons of the nativity, its not even required to include St. Joseph. There just needs to be Christ, the Theotokos, a donkey, and an ox. I can’t see how St.Joseph can be considered second to the Theotokos before St. John the baptist when he doesn’t even have to be in the Nativity icon.

This isn’t correct.

In “THE MEANING OF ICONS” by Leonid Ouspensky and Vladimir Lossky for the icon of the Nativity of Christ, they state the following…" Another detail empsasises that in the Nativity of Christ the “order of nature is vanquished” - this is Joseph. He is not part of the central group of the Child and His Mother; he is not the father and is emphatically seperated from this group. Before him, under the guise of an old and bent shepherd, stands the devil tempting him. On some icons he is represendted with small horns or a short tail. The presence of the devil and his role of tempter acquires a particularly deep eanign int connection with this “feast of re-creation”. Here, on the basis of tradition, the icon transmits the meaning of certain liturgic texts, which speak of the doubts of Joseph and the troubled state of his soul. This state is expressed in the icon by his dejected attitude and is emphasised by the black mouth of the cave, which sometimes serves as a background to his figure. Tradition, transmitted also by the apocrypha, relates ahow the devil tempted Joseph telling him that a virgin birth is not possible, being opposed to the laws of nature. In the person of Joseph the icon discloses not only his personal drama, but the drama of all mankind - the difficulty of accepting that which is “beyond words or reason” - the Incarnation of God."

So, you see, Joseph plays a VERY important role in the Nativity Icon and he is present in ALL traditional icons of the Nativity of Christ.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Its also worth noting that in icons of the nativity, its not even required to include St. Joseph. There just needs to be Christ, the Theotokos, a donkey, and an ox. I can’t see how St.Joseph can be considered second to the Theotokos before St. John the baptist when he doesn’t even have to be in the Nativity icon.

A nativity scene without the chosen father of Christ is not complete.

What can I say Formosus, I hope St. Joseph proves you wrong in Heaven and I hoppe we are both there, God-willing.

Do you think that in all of Christianity, the greatest devotion, after the Immaculate Conception, Our Lady, is given to St. John the Baptist or St. Joseph?

Not that this matters, but its a fun statistic:

googled “St. Joseph” = **12,700,000 **hits
googled “St. John the Baptist” = **1,280,000 **hits

Anyhow, I’m sure Mary will listen to earthly guardian’s prayers over St. John’s

Novena to the Holy Family

 

[mardukm]

Why do Easterns celebrate the Feast day in December? Copts celebrate it in August. I know there is a difference in our official calendars. Is that the only difference?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Formosus]

I have seen Eastern Orthodox nativity Icons with just the donkey, ox, Theotokos and child. I doubt they would break their own canonical rules for Iconography. An eastern catholic priest is who told me about the requirements for the nativity icon.

 

[Patchunky]

I have seen Eastern Orthodox nativity Icons with just the donkey, ox, Theotokos and child. I doubt they would break their own canonical rules for Iconography. An eastern catholic priest is who told me about the requirements for the nativity icon.

Who painted the icon? When was it painted?

You’ll find some of the “new” Orthodox painting icons with only the Mother of God kneeling beside the Holy Infant at the cave, once again, NOT traditional…

 

[Formosus]

Well I am probably wrong then, I am not so knowledgeable on these matters.

 

[Ite_ad_Ioseph]

1. How big a deal was St. Joseph going in the Canon? I would consider it an organic development. It’s not like the new Mass which was created in what, 3 years? Perhaps JohnXXIII was biased, his first name was Joseph, wasn’t it?
2. I know the Copts were the first to celebrate St. Joseph in a Mass or DL. They should get an award. St. Mark taught them well. The date is July 20 on the new calendar, so it must be in August on the old calendar. Apparently there was an apocryphal text that mentioned his death on July 20. However the text said Abib something, which I thought was in spring. I would like to know more about that.
3. All these things about St. Joseph being tempted I think are stupid. How would our Lord’s foster father succumb to unhappiness during his God’s birth? I doubt he would’ve cared if Christ wasn’t his son. After all, God chose him, and Christ is God.

I believe Easterners celebrate St. Joseph with King David and St. James the Sunday after Christmas. He is a Christmas saint. I think he is underrepresented in the Byz Rite.

Apparently, There was a workman’s festival to the Roman gods on Mar. 19, which was Christianized as referring to St. Joseph.
I found that out after LOTS of research. Someone else said there was a Joseph of Antioch or somewhere and they mistook kim for our St. Joseph, but that story sucks.
As for Wednesday, it’s the day of equal distance from out Lord’s day and Our Lady’s day.
Any comments?

 

[Ite_ad_Ioseph]

May I ask again how big a deal St. Joseph’s name in the canon was?