Happy Thanksgiving and Calvinism

[aicirt]

LOL… I believe the elect indians were converted into Calvinist Christians. Have you heard about David Brainerd, the Calvinist missionary to the indians?

If you are an American Christian, you’re roots are in Calvinism and not Catholicism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brainerd

Ooops. Now you’ve gone off the reservation on that one. The Catholics came with Christopher Columbus two hundred years before the Pilgrims. The Pilgrims were Christians and the Catholics are Christians. We are a melting pot. You gave us Turkey Day, we gave you French Catholic Mardi Gras, Irish St. Pat’s, German St. Nick (Santa Claus). And we all enjoy everyone!!

 

[aicirt]

Thanks for the posts! I will thinking more along the lines of divine providence, and how God provided for the Calvinist Pilgrims through the Indiians. What moved the Indians to provide food and shelther for the Calvinist Prilgrims, but the sovereign hand of our God.

According to the History Channel, the Indians wanted the Pilgrim’s guns. Forming an alliance with the Pilgrims would give them extra protection against their enemies. Pilgrims also gained from the Indians’ protection. And the Indians weren’t too thrilled that the first Pilgrims had dug up the corn for the spring planting and used it for themselves.

Calvinists or Catholics, these early settlers were trying to live in a foreign and very strange land. Seeing this show, I could see the wisdom of one mother who opted to leave her child in Holland rather than put the baby through these hardships.

God’s hand was there. He made sure they all weren’t slaughtered. That’s the miracle.

 

[peary]

So you’re first claiming that the first celebrants of Thanksgiving in the New World were Puritans? I DO believe that Virginia (and its Anglicans) was just a little bit ahead of y’all (Jamestown) and I do believe that St. Augustine in Florida and Santa Fe in New Mexico (both founded by Catholics) were ahead even of Virginia. . .

Right on target: Thanksgiving was first celebrated in St. Augustine, Florida, in 1565, and also in Santa Fe, New Mexico in 1598.

But, of course, you’ll never officially find it in the history books or taught in school, even though it is true. By the way, it were the Basques to celebrated it in NM, not the Spanish.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Thanks, peary. . .it’s nice to know that somebody ELSE knows these things too. Of course the nuns taught my high school history (first year, before I moved to the wilds of Vermont) and it was in 1970-1971 so even though in religion class we spent time listening to Jesus Christ Superstar (and I trust I’ll get time off in purgatory for those hours), we still had the ‘unrevisionist’ history texts available thank the Lord.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Ooops. Now you’ve gone off the reservation on that one. The Catholics came with Christopher Columbus two hundred years before the Pilgrims. The Pilgrims were Christians and the Catholics are Christians. We are a melting pot. You gave us Turkey Day, we gave you French Catholic Mardi Gras, Irish St. Pat’s, German St. Nick (Santa Claus). And we all enjoy everyone!!

Did Christopher Columbus actually land in the United States or somewhere else?

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Happy Thanksgiving to my American Protestant and Catholic siblings in Christ. When you think about it, Thanksgiving is an American Calvinist tradition! Any insights to share in thanking God for His divine providence resulting in our religious freedom in America? What do you believe about Thanksgiving being a Calvinist tradition?

http://www.anchorrising.com/the-fir...im-at-plymouth-jennie-a.-brownscombe-1914.JPG

The first Thanksgiving Day!

Are you saying that the Pilgrims were tolerant of all others sects? I thought that there was a quite of bit of intolerance in the New England colonies between the Protestant sects. That was why the Quakers went one way, the Baptists another, the Puritans another, and the Anglicans another. I thought the colonial experience of religious intolerance impacted the later American Founding Fathers in the same way as did the European experience. If the Pilgrims were thanking God for their own freedom, I am not so sure they intended to extend that to Quakers and Catholics.

As far as Thanksgiving being a Calvinist tradition, I presume you are correct. That means the Plymouth Pilgrims were Calvinistic? If so, I think it is a good thing for those who don’t have much in the way of a religious calendar to set aside such a day. Further, even though it has no Catholic origin or relation to the universal church calendar, the Church, even outside the United States has recognized its value. In recognition of the appropriate custom of having a feast of thanksgiving with a lot of leftover meat that begs to be consumed on Fridays after, Pope Pius XII issued a dispensation for American Catholics to have meat on Fridays following the Thanksgiving holiday.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Are you saying that the Pilgrims were tolerant of all others sects? I thought that there was a quite of bit of intolerance in the New England colonies between the Protestant sects. That was why the Quakers went one way, the Baptists another, the Puritans another, and the Anglicans another. I thought the colonial experience of religious intolerance impacted the later American Founding Fathers in the same way as did the European experience. If the Pilgrims were thanking God for their own freedom, I am not so sure they intended to extend that to Quakers and Catholics.

As far as Thanksgiving being a Calvinist tradition, I presume you are correct. That means the Plymouth Pilgrims were Calvinistic? If so, I think it is a good thing for those who don’t have much in the way of a religious calendar to set aside such a day. Further, even though it has no Catholic origin or relation to the universal church calendar, the Church, even outside the United States has recognized its value. In recognition of the appropriate custom of having a feast of thanksgiving with a lot of leftover meat that begs to be consumed on Fridays after, Pope Pius XII issued a dispensation for American Catholics to have meat on Fridays following the Thanksgiving holiday.

I did not know Catholics are not allowed to eat meat on Fridays. What is the reason for that?

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

I did not know Catholics are not allowed to eat meat on Fridays. What is the reason for that?

You never heard of meatless Fridays for Catholics? When I was a boy, the public school always had macaroni, fish sticks, or SOS on Fridays. I knew why. Those Catholics. (I wasn’t one then) Have they stopped doing that? I know many restaurants still run fish specials on Fridays. You never noticed? Anyway, the Church still obligates the faithful to unite themselves with Christ on Good Friday, by offering a penance of their own choosing once a week, Friday. No big deal…but a nice weekly reminder that our Lord suffered terribly for us. Most of the people I know have continued to observe a meatless Friday…except Americans are excused for the Friday after Thanksgiving in recognition of the compatibility of the Catholic faith with the American customs associated with the Thanksgiving holiday. (I’ll bet some don’t even know about this dispensation. I had been waiting 'til Saturdays for leftovers for many years before I found the citation. Our pastor even mentioned it in Church last year!). Feasts are as important as fasts.

Happy Thursday and a Meaty Friday of Thanksgiving to you!

Rory

 

[Tantum_ergo]

It’s the norm for all Fridays to be meatless but the U.S. bishops have received since I believe 1965 an indult for U.S. Catholics such that only LENTEN Fridays are meatless; for the other Fridays of the year a penitential practice is highly to be recommended. I find it easiest myself to just keep all Fridays meatless, and it is very penitential for me because I loathe fish and I’ve also been very anemic much of my life, and absorb iron very poorly except from red meat sources.

Our brothers and sisters the Orthodox also have many days that are meatless, and indeed even stricter fasting. I believe some Orthodox are, or are just about, to start their Christmas fast. And their Lenten fast is very strict; no meat, no eggs, no dairy.

Why do we fast? It’s been a long, long practice. Rooted of course in Jewish history, and Jesus Himself we know fasted and prayed. We fast and abstain on Friday in commemoration of His death on the cross on that Good Friday. Christians in the early Middle Ages in Britain fasted on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays as a general rule, plus having the Advent fast from Martinmas (Nov. 11) to Christmas, Lent (Ash Wednesday to the Triduum), fasting on ember and rogation days, etc. It’s a mortification of our bodies (as St. Paul often commends), a remembrance of His suffering, a wish to join with Him, etc.

But it’s in no way a nasty kind of thing where we say that ‘flesh’ is evil, for example, or that we NEVER eat meat. We simply abstain from a GOOD thing, and offer up that abstention as a kind of gift.

It’s a type of prayer. . .a prayer of sacrifice, made voluntarily, made always with God in mind, made in thanksgiving of His gifts and voluntarily ‘refraining’ from them for a temporary period (like a Friday) as a sign that like Jesus we wish to ‘give up’ even something we like as a sign of willing obedience to the Father.

After all, Jesus’ life on earth was a good thing. He gave up that life of His willingly, even though He did not HAVE to do so, and He offered that sacrifice for us. Surely we can offer up a few sacrifices ourselves and offer them to HIM, and that’s what we do.

 

[2nd_Adam]

You never heard of meatless Fridays for Catholics? When I was a boy, the public school always had macaroni, fish sticks, or SOS on Fridays. I knew why. Those Catholics. (I wasn’t one then) Have they stopped doing that? I know many restaurants still run fish specials on Fridays. You never noticed? Anyway, the Church still obligates the faithful to unite themselves with Christ on Good Friday, by offering a penance of their own choosing once a week, Friday. No big deal…but a nice weekly reminder that our Lord suffered terribly for us. Most of the people I know have continued to observe a meatless Friday…except Americans are excused for the Friday after Thanksgiving in recognition of the compatibility of the Catholic faith with the American customs associated with the Thanksgiving holiday. (I’ll bet some don’t even know about this dispensation. I had been waiting 'til Saturdays for leftovers for many years before I found the citation. Our pastor even mentioned it in Church last year!). Feasts are as important as fasts.

Happy Thursday and a Meaty Friday of Thanksgiving to you!

Rory

Thank you for your kind posts and kind words. And Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

 

[2nd_Adam]

It’s the norm for all Fridays to be meatless but the U.S. bishops have received since I believe 1965 an indult for U.S. Catholics such that only LENTEN Fridays are meatless; for the other Fridays of the year a penitential practice is highly to be recommended. I find it easiest myself to just keep all Fridays meatless, and it is very penitential for me because I loathe fish and I’ve also been very anemic much of my life, and absorb iron very poorly except from red meat sources.

Our brothers and sisters the Orthodox also have many days that are meatless, and indeed even stricter fasting. I believe some Orthodox are, or are just about, to start their Christmas fast. And their Lenten fast is very strict; no meat, no eggs, no dairy.

Why do we fast? It’s been a long, long practice. Rooted of course in Jewish history, and Jesus Himself we know fasted and prayed. We fast and abstain on Friday in commemoration of His death on the cross on that Good Friday. Christians in the early Middle Ages in Britain fasted on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays as a general rule, plus having the Advent fast from Martinmas (Nov. 11) to Christmas, Lent (Ash Wednesday to the Triduum), fasting on ember and rogation days, etc. It’s a mortification of our bodies (as St. Paul often commends), a remembrance of His suffering, a wish to join with Him, etc.

But it’s in no way a nasty kind of thing where we say that ‘flesh’ is evil, for example, or that we NEVER eat meat. We simply abstain from a GOOD thing, and offer up that abstention as a kind of gift.

It’s a type of prayer. . .a prayer of sacrifice, made voluntarily, made always with God in mind, made in thanksgiving of His gifts and voluntarily ‘refraining’ from them for a temporary period (like a Friday) as a sign that like Jesus we wish to ‘give up’ even something we like as a sign of willing obedience to the Father.

After all, Jesus’ life on earth was a good thing. He gave up that life of His willingly, even though He did not HAVE to do so, and He offered that sacrifice for us. Surely we can offer up a few sacrifices ourselves and offer them to HIM, and that’s what we do.

I think fish is actually better for us than red meat for us anyways.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Did Christopher Columbus actually land in the United States or somewhere else?

Think he landed in Cuba. But the Spanish did beat you Saxon types to the New World, I’d bet they were quite thankful to have reached dry land.

Most American Catholics are descended from immigrant groups like the Irish, Spanish, Germans, Poles etc, rather than the pilgrims, so I can’t see how they came from Calvinism.

Anyway, just a friendly greeting from Europe to all of you upstart Colonials, happy Thanksgiving!

EDIT: Oh and I’m pretty sure Pocahontas became an Anglican.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Think he landed in Cuba. But the Spanish did beat you Saxon types to the New World, I’d bet they were quite thankful to have reached dry land.

Most American Catholics are descended from immigrant groups like the Irish, Spanish, Germans, Poles etc, rather than the pilgrims, so I can’t see how they came from Calvinism.

Anyway, just a friendly greeting from Europe to all of you upstart Colonials, happy Thanksgiving!

EDIT: Oh and I’m pretty sure Pocahontas became an Anglican.

Greetings London!

My neighbor is from England. I think the Pilgrims were the first to land in America known today as the Untied Sates. The First Thanksgiving Day is acknowledged with the Pilgrims, and how God provided for them through the native Americans. Here’s an interesting side note. Actually the Pilgrims and Puritan from England did not come over with the King James Bible. They came over with the Geneva Bible which was a Calvinism Bible with notes. I’m not sure when the Irish, Spanish, Germans, Poles Catholics migrated to the United States. I think we only had one Catholic President in the United States too. My point is that the United States is deeply rooted in Calvinism.

 

[LDNCatholic]

The ‘‘first Thanksgiving’’ was celebrated by the Pilgrims in 1621 I believe.

In 1565, 56 years beforehand, St Augustine was founded by the Spanish in what is now Florida.

I do agree that a lot of American Protestants trace their heritage back to Calvinism, particularly, I’d imagine, those of Dutch heritage, or those whose ancestry includes the Pilgrims.

However to say that all American Christians trace their lineage back to the Pilgrims doesn’t quite ring true to me.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Sorry, Adam, but Jamestown, Virginia, 'predates" Plymouth, Mass! (1608 as opposed to 1620), and St. Augustine, FL and Santa Fe, NM were earlier still. Now you can make a case that neither Florida nor New Mexico were ‘technically’ parts of the U.S. (though our Virginia border went all the way to the Pacific at first, LOL), but certainly Virginia like Massachusetts is one of the 13 original colonies!

 

[2nd_Adam]

The ‘‘first Thanksgiving’’ was celebrated by the Pilgrims in 1621 I believe.

In 1565, 56 years beforehand, St Augustine was founded by the Spanish in what is now Florida.

I do agree that a lot of American Protestants trace their heritage back to Calvinism, particularly, I’d imagine, those of Dutch heritage, or those whose ancestry includes the Pilgrims.

However to say that all American Christians trace their lineage back to the Pilgrims doesn’t quite ring true to me.

I can agree with your post. I think the United States is rooted in Protestantism which traces back to primarily Protestant Calvinism. However, Christianity in America today is not predominately Protestant Calvinism nor Catholicism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religion_in_the_United_States

 

[a_slave_of_God]

(Remember) when the disciples said: “O Jesus, son of Mary! Can your Lord send down to us a table spread (with food) from heaven?” Jesus said: “Fear God, if you are indeed believers.” (112)

They said: “We wish to eat thereof and to satisfy our heart, and to know that you have indeed told us the truth and that we ourselves be its witnesses.” (113)

Jesus, son of Mary, said: “O God, our Lord! Send us from heaven a table spread (with food) that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a festival and a sign from You; and provide us sustenance, for You are the Best of sustainers.” (114)

God said: "I am going to send it down unto you, … [translation of chapter 5 of the Quran]

All the praises and thanks be to God the Lord of the worlds.

Happy thanksgiving day.

 

[benidict]

Happy Thanksgiving to my American Protestant and Catholic siblings in Christ. When you think about it, Thanksgiving is an American Calvinist tradition! Any insights to share in thanking God for His divine providence resulting in our religious freedom in America? What do you believe about Thanksgiving being a Calvinist tradition?

http://www.anchorrising.com/the-fir...im-at-plymouth-jennie-a.-brownscombe-1914.JPG

The first Thanksgiving Day!

all i can tell you brother 2nd is…HAPPY THANKS GIVING BRO! and its chilly in hawaii today:winter::hug1::harp:

 

[aicirt]

Did Christopher Columbus actually land in the United States or somewhere else?

Look, I’m glad the Pilgrims made it across the ocean and are given credit for giving thanks at Thanksgiving. Fine with me. If those in the western section of the US got the word it was the Spanish who offered the first T-Day, that’s okay too. Big country, hardships for all, God’s will that we all, Christians, came here. We’ve done a good job in making this country THE most desirable ever in the history of man. Let’s see if we all can continue to keep it FREE.

Vikings were pagans and reportedly made it to Newfoundland and MAYBE further south. The Portugese fishermen had a lot to say about their forays and that info was given to Columbus. Monks in Ireland, well before Calvin, may have made some journeys too. So many people contributed to getting this continent settled.

The Pilgrims were aiming for the mouth of the Hudson River. Had to land where they did. Columbus landed at San Salvador and thought he was in India. I know you knew that.

Yes, Catholics were taught about the contributions of Protestants in this country including the religious base of such great universities as Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, and Princeton etc. We know you still have scholarship programs for American Indians at these institutions such as Dartmouth.

Little Catholic kids in the east learned about the Pilgrims/Calvinists inviting the Indians, who had shared their provisions with the settlers, to a feast. Everyone had a great time.
Hope you do too!

 

[2nd_Adam]

(Remember) when the disciples said: “O Jesus, son of Mary! Can your Lord send down to us a table spread (with food) from heaven?” Jesus said: “Fear God, if you are indeed believers.” (112)

They said: “We wish to eat thereof and to satisfy our heart, and to know that you have indeed told us the truth and that we ourselves be its witnesses.” (113)

Jesus, son of Mary, said: “O God, our Lord! Send us from heaven a table spread (with food) that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a festival and a sign from You; and provide us sustenance, for You are the Best of sustainers.” (114)

God said: "I am going to send it down unto you, … [translation of chapter 5 of the Quran]

All the praises and thanks be to God the Lord of the worlds.

Happy thanksgiving day.

Happy Thanksgiving Day to you too “A Slave from God”! I used to own a Quran but gave it away a few years back. Do you mind why we should be thankful for Jesus Christ? Do you believe we have peace with God because Jesus died for us? If not, please share with me why you are thankful for the Jesus Christ.