Hard As Nails

[aingil]

I just saw the documentary (here in Europe - sorry I’m a bit late to this thread).

So…it would appear that spreading Christ’s message is just a matter of screaming “god loves you” at bunch of impressionable teenagers whilst being bashed with a chair?

It certainly makes for a great show, yet if I were a principle I would never allow such anti-intellectual rubbish into my school. What on *earth *is that young man thinking?

Rather than “extreme” it looked decidedly “inappropriate”, and had all the hallmarks of a cult.

So it would appear that you have simplified his method to just screaming God loves you, while beating himself with a chair. Since his method works, I wonder what you are thinking criticizing him when your own comments show you are clearly ignorant of his actual method.

How many of the saints were radical and spread the message of God in “inappropriate” ways? I am not saying that Justin is a saint, but he is trying. Which is more than I can say for most Catholics who think that evangelizing is being nice to people and keeping their faith to themselves.

 

[happymommy]

So it would appear that you have simplified his method to just screaming God loves you, while beating himself with a chair. Since his method works, I wonder what you are thinking criticizing him when your own comments show you are clearly ignorant of his actual method.

How many of the saints were radical and spread the message of God in “inappropriate” ways? I am not saying that Justin is a saint, but he is trying. Which is more than I can say for most Catholics who think that evangelizing is being nice to people and keeping their faith to themselves.

I agree! He is shocking and you know what, in today’s world, we need to be shocked! If his method is getting to the kids and teaching them that God loves them and that the Catholic Church is the one true way, then I say, go for it before our Protestant brothers get a hold of them! They are leading our kids away from the faith. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Justin, a very nice man. I’ve also talked with some teens from our parish who have gone through his walk, carrying the cross, being yelled at. It was powerful for them, they wept, but they got it. It hit home! Christ did this for me, only what he went through was so much more painful. Jesus loves me! It’s a powerful message and Justin delivers it well!

 

[Norseman82]

Justin’s program does a lot for kids who come from hard and abusive backgrounds. If you think that it only ends with zombies smashing chair over one another, I would question what your knowledge of such programs actually is. Justin is not perfect and neither is his program. But it bothers me excessively that so many people make snap judgments about his method of spreading the faith, especially since he reaches more people than most of his detractors combined…

The LAST thing a kid who has come from an abusive background needs is MORE abuse - whether it be the physical kind (chair smashing or being thrown to the ground) or the emotional kind (being yelled at or belittled).

 

[aingil]

The LAST thing a kid who has come from an abusive background needs is MORE abuse - whether it be the physical kind (chair smashing or being thrown to the ground) or the emotional kind (being yelled at or belittled).

ok…so what you are saying is that Justin’s intensity constitutes abuse?..right. Then why does it impact these kids? Why do they think that he is genuine and can help them? He does a lot of suicide prevention talks as well. Don’t take one part of ministry out of context. He is not for everyone, but for many kids who have been through a lot he can show how real and genuine Christ’s love is. Because to many people, especially when their lives are hard, religion seems like a silly fairytale and not reality.

 

[thomfra]

I agree! He is shocking and you know what, in today’s world, we need to be shocked! If his method is getting to the kids and teaching them that God loves them and that the Catholic Church is the one true way, then I say, go for it before our Protestant brothers get a hold of them! They are leading our kids away from the faith. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Justin, a very nice man. I’ve also talked with some teens from our parish who have gone through his walk, carrying the cross, being yelled at. It was powerful for them, they wept, but they got it. It hit home! Christ did this for me, only what he went through was so much more painful. Jesus loves me! It’s a powerful message and Justin delivers it well!

Hmmmm… I have no doubt that he is a nice guy. He was certainly portrayed that way in the documentry.

The problem, is that his kind of “program” just creates a kind of group behaviour, somewhat similar to a cult, where every body has the same (i.e. the one your a “supposed” to have) experience.

“They [the teens] wept” - you say. How many? And what kind of group pressure is on them to give the appropriate response i.e. weeping…

Are the kids that “weep” the only ones that trully “get it”…

I would assume that the teenage girl from the documentry that weeps and cries (much like her “mentor”) every single time she gives the talk about having her sexual debut with a boy when she was 14.

The very same girl (in the next documentry scene) talks about how being part of this group is like being at one long party…Is she a traumatised toubled soul or not? Is it healthy for this young girl to “scandalise” herself for the benefit of other teens (as another posted mentioned).

Something about this just doesn’t sit right with me. It’s all just a little to manufactured, and a little too dependent on group thinking.

 

[thomfra]

Since his method works

Works in what way? The kids get a t-shirt, are part of a “catholic group” and have a bunch of friends who think just like them and accept them - that is as long as they are “extreme” enough based on the yelling and screaming and broken bones from the documentary.

Yeah - I guess it works in that sense.

But I can’t see how this can be translated into “chalking a few souls up” for the Catholic faith. It’s just a Christian youth cult, and a somewhat exploitative one at that.

 

[happymommy]

Hmmmm… I have no doubt that he is a nice guy. He was certainly portrayed that way in the documentry.

The problem, is that his kind of “program” just creates a kind of group behaviour, somewhat similar to a cult, where every body has the same (i.e. the one your a “supposed” to have) experience.

“They [the teens] wept” - you say. How many? And what kind of group pressure is on them to give the appropriate response i.e. weeping…

Are the kids that “weep” the only ones that trully “get it”…

I would assume that the teenage girl from the documentry that weeps and cries (much like her “mentor”) every single time she gives the talk about having her sexual debut with a boy when she was 14.

The very same girl (in the next documentry scene) talks about how being part of this group is like being at one long party…Is she a traumatised toubled soul or not? Is it healthy for this young girl to “scandalise” herself for the benefit of other teens (as another posted mentioned).

Something about this just doesn’t sit right with me. It’s all just a little to manufactured, and a little too dependent on group thinking.

No, the boy I know that cried is a wonderful kid! Very honest and strong in his faith already. He did not cry out of pressure from anyone else, he’s not like that. He’s not one to follow the crowd at all!! It moved him. I don’t think I’m doing a good job explaining it. I guess you just have to know the kid to understand that his emotion from it was not put on. They experienced this in August, my husband was just talking about it with him last Friday and the feelings were still there, still very real. I’m sure there will be some kids who “act” moved just to be apart of it. Much like the alter calls I saw as a girl growing up Protestant. You didn’t want to be the only one not going up. But I do know, even from those times, that it was very real for many people. I have no doubt that Justin is getting through to a lot of kids, and adults as well.

 

[aingil]

Works in what way? The kids get a t-shirt, are part of a “catholic group” and have a bunch of friends who think just like them and accept them - that is as long as they are “extreme” enough based on the yelling and screaming and broken bones from the documentary.

Yeah - I guess it works in that sense.

But I can’t see how this can be translated into “chalking a few souls up” for the Catholic faith. It’s just a Christian youth cult, and a somewhat exploitative one at that.

Yeah probably much in the same way that St. Vincent Ferrer was a cult leader…His methods were intense and consuming on a much larger scale than ministries like Hard as Nails. Despite the issues that you may have with the details of the ministry ( as other people have pointed out), he is doing something real.

What are you doing? St. Catherine of Siena said that if we are what we should be, we would set the world ablaze. St. Therese of Avila said that if we dive in with all our hearts we will make more mistakes, but we will also do more good. I don’t see this in many Catholic in the USA or Europe. And when people do try to reach out more they are met with criticism from the people who are supposed to help them. Many Catholics are content with being right and with having a nice tidy little faith that holds them up during the hard times. That is not enough. The faith is not just a defensive measure, or a way to feel right in our beliefs. It has to involve action and sacrifice.

So I’m asking, what do you critics suggest? What are you doing to evangelize? How is the will of God made evident in your lives? How are you setting the world ablaze?

 

[Norseman82]

ok…so what you are saying is that Justin’s intensity constitutes abuse?..right. Then why does it impact these kids? Why do they think that he is genuine and can help them? He does a lot of suicide prevention talks as well. Don’t take one part of ministry out of context. He is not for everyone, but for many kids who have been through a lot he can show how real and genuine Christ’s love is. Because to many people, especially when their lives are hard, religion seems like a silly fairytale and not reality.

Please do not minimize throwing people to the ground or belittling people as simply being “intense”.