"Hard-Core Catholicism bursting out all over the place"

[Maranatha]

Cheer Up, Conservatives!
You’re still winning.
…
What about values? Back in the 1960s, it was axiomatic amongst the elite that religion was doomed. In “The Secular City” (1965), Harvey Cox argued that Christianity had to come to terms with a secular culture. Now religion of the most basic sort is back with a vengeance. The president, his secretary of state, the House speaker and Senate majority leader are all evangelical Christians.

Ted Haggard, the head of the 30-million strong National Association of Evangelicals, jokes that the only disagreement between himself and the leader of the Western world is automotive: Mr. Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas he prefers a Chevy.

Rather than dying a slow death, evangelical Protestantism and hard-core Catholicism are bursting out all over the place. Who would have predicted, back in the 1960s, the success of “The Passion of the Christ,” the “Left Behind” series or “The Purpose Driven Life”? To be sure, liberals still control universities, but, thanks to its *rive droite *of think tanks in Washington and many state capitals, the right has a firm control of the political-ideas business.

Indeed, the left has reached the same level of fury that the right reached in the 1960s–but with none of the intellectual inventiveness. On everything from Social Security to foreign policy to economic policy, it is reduced merely to opposing conservative ideas. This strategy may have punctured the Bush reforms on Social Security, but it has also bared a deeper weakness for the left. In the 1960s, the conservative movement coalesced around several simple propositions–lower taxes, more religion, an America-first foreign policy–that eventually revolutionized politics. The modern left is split on all these issues, between New Democrats and back-to-basics liberals.

more

 

[Isidore_AK]

They do have one great point at the end of the article…if nothing else changes, we’ll eventually ‘outbreed’ the liberals (as they murder the majority of their children )…

 

[Richardols]

Isidore_AK:

we’ll eventually ‘outbreed’ the liberals (as they murder the majority of their children

Do we liberals really do that? My wife and I have five children, and we’ve never murdered any of them (just considered it once or twice when they were adolescents.)

Keep such nasty remarks to yourself or put them in the usual dark place.

 

[Maranatha]

Richardols:

Do we liberals really do that? My wife and I have five children, and we’ve never murdered any of them (just considered it once or twice when they were adolescents.)

Keep such nasty remarks to yourself or put them in the usual dark place.

I would venture that most poeple who murder their unborn are liberal. That is they have been liberated from God. I’m sure that doesn’t incllude you.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Cheer Up, Conservatives!
You’re still winning.
…
What about values? Back in the 1960s, it was axiomatic amongst the elite that religion was doomed. In “The Secular City” (1965), Harvey Cox argued that Christianity had to come to terms with a secular culture. Now religion of the most basic sort is back with a vengeance. The president, his secretary of state, the House speaker and Senate majority leader are all evangelical Christians.

Evangelical is as Evangelical does - there is nothing Evangelical or Christian in waging war against a country for its oil, or in bombing civilians.​

Besides, US foreign policy toward Israel is influenced by a premillenarian dispensationalist interpretation of the Bible. Or is a biblically conservative distortion of the Bible to be welcomed, however untruthful it may be, purely because it is conservative ?

Dispensationalism in the past…

…and now

Christ did not come to validate every attitude or act of a conservative US, but to judge it, find it wanting, & to condemn it for sin, that He might be gracious both to “liberals” & to “conservatives”.

Conservatism is as liable to self-adoring idolatry as liberalism - both may be idols, false gods, “filth”. But Christ is the unique Judge of the Nations, Who judges without respect of persons - a nation forgets that at its peril. And grace cannot be known, unless it is preceded by judgement. So conservatives are as much under the judgement of Christ as anybody else. Conservatism, once it becomes a false god, forgets that salvation is only by grace, gets too big for its boots, and is righteously overthrown and humbled:

The American Idolatry

If the ministers of our great urban churches become again the simple priests and chaplains of this American idolatry, subtly compounded with a few stray Christian emphases, they will merely add one more dismal proof in the pages of history that a religiously sanctified self-idolatry is more grievous than its secular variety. This is how the gospel becomes a salt that has lost its savor.

The gospel cannot be preached with truth and power if it does not challenge the pretensions and pride, not only of individuals, but of nations, cultures, civilizations, economic and political systems. The good fortune of America and its power place it under the most grievous temptations to self-adulation. If there is no power and grace in the Christian church “to bring down every high thing which exalteth itself against the knowledge of God,” the church becomes not merely useless but dangerous. We Protestants speak critical words about the idolatrous pretensions of the Roman Church. But some of these pretensions are actually more plausible than this miserable identification of the “laws of God” with a particular form of democracy…

http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/niebuhr.htm

And “salt that has lost its savour”, is good for nothing but to be thrown outdoors and trodden underfoot. If Christianity sells itself to the state to sanctify its every act, it is committing adultery. ##

Ted Haggard, the head of the 30-million strong National Association of Evangelicals, jokes that the only disagreement between himself and the leader of the Western world is automotive: Mr. Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas he prefers a Chevy.

Rather than dying a slow death, evangelical Protestantism and hard-core Catholicism are bursting out all over the place. Who would have predicted, back in the 1960s, the success of “The Passion of the Christ,” the “Left Behind” series or “The Purpose Driven Life”? To be sure, liberals still control universities, but, thanks to its *rive droite *of think tanks in Washington and many state capitals, the right has a firm control of the political-ideas business.

Indeed, the left has reached the same level of fury that the right reached in the 1960s–but with none of the intellectual inventiveness. On everything from Social Security to foreign policy to economic policy, it is reduced merely to opposing conservative ideas. This strategy may have punctured the Bush reforms on Social Security, but it has also bared a deeper weakness for the left. In the 1960s, the conservative movement coalesced around several simple propositions–lower taxes, more religion, an America-first foreign policy–that eventually revolutionized politics. The modern left is split on all these issues, between New Democrats and back-to-basics liberals.

more

The tone of this is worrying - for no Christian or church has any good that is not granted by the sheer grace of God: Christian boasting is in the Cross, only - not in success, power, or anything, but in the Cross. Hardly anything is dangerous to the Gospel as worldly success​

 

[Isidore_AK]

Richardols:

Do we liberals really do that? My wife and I have five children, and we’ve never murdered any of them (just considered it once or twice when they were adolescents.)

Keep such nasty remarks to yourself or put them in the usual dark place.

Ever think that you may be the exception to the “democratic” party line…? Other than you (and a couple of others on these forums) I have never met a dem who didn’t support a “Woman’s right to choose” to murder her babies…

 

[Cradle]

Maranatha:

…** hard-core Catholicism are bursting out all over the place**…

HAH! Most of the Catholics I meet, and to be honest nearly ALL of the young Catholics I meet, are of the cafeteria sort… Faithful Catholics bursting out all over the place, you say? :nope: Only in my dreams.

Stop fooling yourselves.

 

[Promotor_Fidei]

Cradle:

Stop fooling yourselves.

Among my friends and family, all have become more hardcore almost in reaction to apostasy in the Church. And we’re having lots of children. The cafeteria sorts don’t. Demography is destiny.

Some communities as a whole are becoming more faithful and producing many more seminarians. Depends on the environment and the bishop. For instance, Lincoln Nebraska has only 89,000 Catholics but has 38 seminarians. Tell me that’s not hardcore.

dioceseoflincoln.org/

As a contrast, look at Los Angeles. Five million members. 5 ordained this year. I hear next class will be smaller.

Two studies in contrast. There are more.

 

[Brad]

Cheer Up, Conservatives!
You’re still winning.
…
What about values? Back in the 1960s, it was axiomatic amongst the elite that religion was doomed. In “The Secular City” (1965), Harvey Cox argued that Christianity had to come to terms with a secular culture. Now religion of the most basic sort is back with a vengeance. The president, his secretary of state, the House speaker and Senate majority leader are all evangelical Christians.

Ted Haggard, the head of the 30-million strong National Association of Evangelicals, jokes that the only disagreement between himself and the leader of the Western world is automotive: Mr. Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas he prefers a Chevy.

Rather than dying a slow death, evangelical Protestantism and hard-core Catholicism are bursting out all over the place. Who would have predicted, back in the 1960s, the success of “The Passion of the Christ,” the “Left Behind” series or “The Purpose Driven Life”? To be sure, liberals still control universities, but, thanks to its *rive droite *of think tanks in Washington and many state capitals, the right has a firm control of the political-ideas business.

Indeed, the left has reached the same level of fury that the right reached in the 1960s–but with none of the intellectual inventiveness. On everything from Social Security to foreign policy to economic policy, it is reduced merely to opposing conservative ideas. This strategy may have punctured the Bush reforms on Social Security, but it has also bared a deeper weakness for the left. In the 1960s, the conservative movement coalesced around several simple propositions–lower taxes, more religion, an America-first foreign policy–that eventually revolutionized politics. The modern left is split on all these issues, between New Democrats and back-to-basics liberals.

more

The left is bankrupt of ideas and values. A matter of time before they sink into oblivion. Hopefully the majority of the country will not go with them.

 

[beckers]

Brad:

The left is bankrupt of ideas and values. A matter of time before they sink into oblivion. Hopefully the majority of the country will not go with them.

This is the natural flow of political parties throughout history.One is strong for while and then their ideas start to fade and a new party emgeres to compete with the largest party. I think the Republican party will most likely split but who knows maybe there could be some other “new” party to compete with.

 

[Richardols]

Maranatha:

I would venture that most poeple who murder their unborn are liberal. That is they have been liberated from God. I’m sure that doesn’t incllude you.

The poster did not qualify his remarks. My wife and I are Orthodox Catholics and are liberals. So he included us in his accusation.

BTW, we are not liberals because we have been liberated from God. Who told you that? It’s a laughable statement. Please research whence the term liberal.

 

[buffalo]

Richardols:

The poster did not qualify his remarks. My wife and I are Orthodox Catholics and are liberals. So he included us in his accusation.

BTW, we are not liberals because we have been liberated from God. Who told you that? It’s a laughable statement. Please research whence the term liberal.

Liberalism is a Sin

Liberalism is the root of heresy, the tree of evil in whose branches all the harpies of infidelity find ample shelter; it is today the evil of all evils. (Ch. 4). “The theater, literature, public and private morals are all saturated with obscenity and impurity. The result is inevitable; a corrupt generation necessarily begets a revolutionary generation. Liberalism is the program of naturalism. Free-thought begets free morals, or immorality. Restraint is thrown off and a free rein given to the passions. Whoever thinks what he pleases will do what he pleases. Liberalism in the intellectual order is license in the moral order. Disorder in the intellect begets disorder in the heart, and vice-versa. Thus does Liberalism propagate immorality, and immorality Liberalism.” (Ch. 26).

Liberalism “is, therefore, the radical and universal denial of all divine truth and Christian dogma, the primal type of all heresy, and the supreme rebellion against the authority of God and His Church. As with Lucifer, its maxim is, ‘I will not serve.’” (Ch. 3).

“Liberalism, whether in the doctrinal or practical order, is a sin. In the doctrinal order, it is heresy, and consequently a mortal sin against faith. In the practical order, it is a sin against the commandments of God and of the Church, for it virtually transgresses all commandments. To be more precise: in the doctrinal order, Liberalism strikes at the very foundations of faith; it is heresy radical and universal, because within it are comprehended all heresies. In the practical order it is a radical and universal infraction of the divine law, since it sanctions and authorizes all infractions of that law.” (Ch. 3).

 

[mike182d]

As the “spirit” of Vatican II was meant to invoke a new Pentacost, I find it ironic that the orthodox Catholic faith is exploding and flourishing in America while the liberal, self-proclaimed heirs of the “spirit” of the Council are fizzling out.

Could it be that the Holy Spirit’s trying to tell us something? Hmmm?

 

[mike182d]

Richardols:

BTW, we are not liberals because we have been liberated from God. Who told you that? It’s a laughable statement. Please research whence the term liberal.

Typically in the political arena, it is the conservative view of freedom that one is free to do what is right, while the liberal view of freedom is that one is free to do what they want. The first position posits the validity of law in an objective morality prescribed by God while the latter posits the validity of law in the personal opinions of fallible human beings.

Setting aside one’s views on mainstream, election-day issues (such as war or increasing the reach of the welfare state), ask yourself: which party is most fervent in removing God from the public square? Which party is most fervent in proclaiming “truth” as a relative opinion?

When you get your answer, ponder over whether or not there is a connection between the party that embraces these “values” and their core political ideology? Which is more consistent with Catholic theology?

 

[mike182d]

beckers:

This is the natural flow of political parties throughout history.One is strong for while and then their ideas start to fade and a new party emgeres to compete with the largest party. I think the Republican party will most likely split but who knows maybe there could be some other “new” party to compete with.

THE CONSTITUTION PARTY!!!

 

[Sarah_Jane]

mike182d:

As the “spirit” of Vatican II was meant to invoke a new Pentacost, I find it ironic that the orthodox Catholic faith is exploding and flourishing in America while the liberal, self-proclaimed heirs of the “spirit” of the Council are fizzling out.

The liberals don’t proclaim the TRUE spirit of the Council.

 

[Richardols]

Liberalism is a Sin

Liberalism “is, therefore, the radical and universal denial of all divine truth and Christian dogma, the primal type of all heresy, and the supreme rebellion against the authority of God and His Church. As with Lucifer, its maxim is, ‘I will not serve.’” (Ch. 3).
l

Sure, by that extreme and unqualified definition of liberalism, it would be a sin. And, there are some individuals who follow that extreme view. Catholics who are liberals do not deny “all divine truth and Christian dogma.” The trouble with using extremism in a definition is that it defines only one position, the one at the outer edge.

 

[Richardols]

mike182d:

Typically in the political arena, it is the conservative view of freedom that one is free to do what is right, while the liberal view of freedom is that one is free to do what they want. The first position posits the validity of law in an objective morality prescribed by God while the latter posits the validity of law in the personal opinions of fallible human beings.

A reasonable assessment, but you err in stating without qualification that the conservative posits the validity of law in a morality prescribed by God. There are enough conservatives who are agnostics and even atheists, yet who hold to sound conservatism.

 

[Richardols]

mike182d:

As the “spirit” of Vatican II was meant to invoke a new Pentacost, I find it ironic that the orthodox Catholic faith is exploding and flourishing in America

Then why all the church and parish closings? Then why are so many Catholic schools closing? It seems to me, at least, that the Church is chugging along as best as it can, especially in the wake of the sex scandals, money troubles, etc. rather than exploding. It’s not doing badly, mind you, but it’s hardly in the Pollyannish situation that you suggest. IMO, of course.

 

[mike182d]

Richardols:

A reasonable assessment, but you err in stating without qualification that the conservative posits the validity of law in a morality prescribed by God. There are enough conservatives who are agnostics and even atheists, yet who hold to sound conservatism.

This is true, and admittedly my assesment was an over-generalization, but consider discussion over the sexes: there are some men that have an aversion to sports and competition, but that does not deter from the fact that men, in general, are inherently competitive human beings - moreso than women.

While there are atheists who are conservative, I would say they are the exception and not the norm and I would even go as far as to question the basis on which they consider themselves “conservative” to begin with. After spending four years studying philosophy at an incredibly secular institution, I have little respect for “moral” atheists…it just makes absolutely no sense. But I digress…